Thermal scope info

[Shoots100]

I get asked a lot of questions about thermal optic recommendations, so I thought I would do a short tutorial about what you get for your dollar with the three current scopes I have at the moment.
My current Primary scope is an Nvision Halo X50 and my backup scope is an AGM Rattler TS25-384 compact scope.
I also have a Pulsar Thermion XG50, which was my primary before I got the Halo.
Prices range from $2,000- $8,500 and with thermals, you do get what you pay for.
Resolution, better internal electronic components and the options they offer cost's money.
There are deals to be had, but your not going to get 640 resolution performance from a 384 res scope.
Most of the budget priced scopes use cores made in China, so their prices are cheaper.

AGM rattler TS25-384 $2,000 avg
China made core internals, but serviced in TX.
384 res
25mm lens
1X base magnification
Manual focus
NUC options with internal shutter
2ct- CR123 battery powered
Good FOV (Field of View)
Box style scope
Small enough to be able to be used as a spotter.
6" L x 2.5" W x 3.5" H
Records video, but no audio.
PIP option
color palettes
Reticle choices
Multiple firearm profiles
WIFI
Display sleep mode
QD mount
.308 rated recoil
3yr warranty
Takes 10 seconds to power up before use.


Pulsar Thermion XG50 $5,000
Made in Belarus, but serviced in TX
640 Resolution
BAE Core, best core in the business.
3x base mag
Manual focus
NUC options with Internal shutter
Proprietary APS2 or 3 batteries, with an internal battery.
30mm Tube style body. Uses 30mm rings for mounting
Records video with audio
PIP
WIFI
Color palettes
Reticle choices
Multiple firearm profiles
Display sleep mode
3yr warranty
375 H&H/12Ga rated recoil
Quick start up time


Nvision Halo X50 $8,500
Made in USA, Massachusetts.
640 Res
BAE internals, with the best uncooled picture image in the business.
3.5x Base Mag
Auto focus
Manual NUC
Black & White Palettes, with border outline
Auto contrast Reticle
Records video with Audio
Box style scope
Color palettes
Reticle choices
Multiple firearm profiles
2ct- 18650 batteries
50Bmg Rated Recoil
5yr warranty
Takes 10 seconds to power up and you need to NUC it before use.

 

[JamieZ]

I will add a little to your reviews and its just my opinion from what I think know about thermals ... which is not enough.........

1. If you want some sort of clarity, don't go with a sensor lower than 384 x 12.
The number 12 is the pixel pitch. Clarity will be better when using a 384 x 12 compared to a 384 x 17
Which would be comparing the Bering Optics Super Hogster compared to the AGM TS35 384. They have the same sensor but the Super Hogster has a 12 micron pixel pitch which is better clarity than the AGM Rattler with a 17 micron pixel pitch

2. Both of the above units are on the low end, as far as money and quality. Neither unit records audio or has the high end cores like the Pulsar and Nvision mentioned in Shoots100 post.

3. Both these units will make the consumer not willing to shovel out more than $3200 happy, as long as they never look through a 640 sensor.
Both units run between $2500 and $3200

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When it comes to editing videos and posting online:

It all depends on how you edit it. Some like me just edit and don't realize if they made it the normal size or wide screen or what.

I can post 2 videos from the same scope, using the same Core but they will look totally different. 1 video will look better than the other.

This is one of the reasons why you can never judge a thermal by the video you see. The other reason being is that what the hunter see's through the scope is always, always better than what you see in the video.





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When looking at scopes, another reason to pick one over the other is batteries.

Both units and probably every unit can have an external battery pack plugged into it. It makes a huge difference in burn time.
Problem is, you are plugging into a USB port, well these ports go bad pretty easily. Which mine did and was fixed under warranty.

The other option is an extended battery cover so you can use 16650 batteries, these work awesome.

The other option is to buy a unit that has better batteries, like Shoots100 Nvision does. It uses 18650 batteries. This is a huge plus !!

Both units I mentioned use CR123a batteries,,,, they suck and they are expensive

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You might not think you want it but having video is excellent. For sharing purposes and for seeing what you could of done better in your hunt.

My first Pulsar unit didn't have video because I wasn't concerned with it. Ended up being a big mistake.

Audio is another option that's really nice to have and I don't have it. I would like it so I can hear the banter between my buddy and I when something is coming in. I want to hear the " Oh fuck did you see that"

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Difference between having Night Vision and Thermal ?

Its huge.

You at least want your scanner to be a thermal and your scope to be Night Vision. Reason????
You don't miss shit with thermal, if there is an animal out there, you will see it and then be able to scope in on it with your night vision scope.

I went from a NV scope and NV scanner, to a Thermal scanner NV scope, to a thermal scanner and thermal scope, to a good thermal scanner and a good thermal scope.

Does the rabbit hole end here,,, probably not but it ends for a little while,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I Think

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If you have the money, buy the best you can actually afford. What you spend will be dependent upon your happiness with the items you purchased. My buddy didn't want to spend the extra $600 dollars or so to buy my Super Hogster 384 x 12, compared to the one he bought, the AGM Rattler 384 x 17.
Well he kicks himself in the ass now and wishes he did.

Thinking you got a great deal on an older item that cost a shit ton when it came out,,,,,,,,,,,,, wellllll ??? More than likely you got boned because the technology in the last couple of years has improved significantly ..............

I've been down this rabbit hole just within the last 3 years of owning Night Vision and cheap costing Thermals.

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Can I afford to buy the high end thermals that Shoots100 has, No.
Do I have the money, Yes.
Do I want the thermals that Shoots100 has, Yes !!
Will I ever get them, No.

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I must of had way to much coffee this morning and no food. Way to much Yacking

by the way,,,, Shoots100 is the one who talked me into buying the Super Hogster back a year or so ago. He knows his shit when it comes to thermals,,,,,,,,,,,,,, he has had a few of them or has a few of them

 

[Shoots100]

Thanks for the Addition to the topic.
It's good to get the perspective of someone that went through the process of finding what works for them in recent years.
Night hunting with thermal is an addiction and I got addicted a long time ago, when 160 res thermal was king and cost more than what some of the 640 res optics cost now, with 1% of the features.
Most hunters don't need 640 res scopes, as some of the 384 res units will work just fine for the range their hunting, which for most hunters is within 200 yards.
Most Pig and east coast hunters that hunt in closer range environments like to have a scope with less base magnification and a wider field of view(FOV) and a higher Hertz(Hz) refresh rate to engage moving targets.
That FOV will give them the ability to engage multiple targets and some of the 384 res units are designed to have great images that rival 640 res units at base mag, so there's no reason to spend the money for a 640 res unit.
Out west, where hunters are engaging targets at longer distances, 640 rules, especially 640 scopes that start out with at least a 3x base magnification.
Since every time you magnify the resolution is cut in half, a hunter that engages targets at longer distances will benefit from having a 640 res scope.
640 res at 3x = 320 res at 6x and 160 res at 12x.
Resolution costs money and while 640 res is top dog right now, 30 years ago 160 res was top dog.
As JZ alluded to, there's a whole lot more that you need to take into account before making a thermal scope/mono purchase.
Here's some links that'll give some insight into the technology.

Thermal Info

More Thermal info

Two things I forgot to add in the scopes descriptions above, are recoil rating and multiple firearm profiles, which I'll add after I post this.
All electronic optics are susceptible to recoil and it's a must to have the highest recoil rating possible, if you plan on putting the scope on multiple firearms that may include high caliber weapons.
Some are only rated to 308 recoil, while others are rated to 50Bmg and automatic rifle recoil.
The addition of laser range finders(LRF) is the newest thing within the thermal hunting world, especially with the hunters out west.
Of course that comes at a cost and most hunters don't need it, but as usual, it's better to have and not need, than need and not have.
For the extra cost, weight addition, battery drain and the fact that I let my prey get in as close as possible before engaging, I didn't spend the extra thousand to get the Halo XRF version.
And as with any electronic piece of gear, the more crap you have on it, the more chances of it breaking.
I also don't like Cr123 batteries and sold my first Halo scope because it ate 123's like pez candies.
I always had a Pulsar NV or thermal in the stall and Pulsar is a brand I usually recommend because they offer a lot of options for the night hunter, but with the popularity of night hunting over the last couple of years, more offerings are being made available and that's a good thing for the consumer, if you know what to look for.
Unfortunately, most of those offerings are from China, just rebranded and it's buyer beware.
A good deal sometimes ends up biting you in the ass, So if all else, make sure the company has a great warranty or return policy.
I've(and others) waited for years and hounded thermal scope manufacturers to make certain styles of spotters and scopes with certain features that would better accommodate the night hunter and of course, sell too.
Some have listened and Nvision was one of them and that's why I spent the money for the Halo X50 scope.
BAE Core
Best Image in the business
Removable + inexpensive and Planet friendly 18650 batteries. Rechargeable 18650's last over 8 hours and can be charged over 500 times.
Records and has Audio
Auto focus
50Bmg recoil rating
Ambidextrous controls
5 year warranty
Made in the USA
Worth every penny and the 5 year wait.