Things are heating up in the Donbass
- Thread starter holdover
- Start date
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
""Conceding it"" is perhaps a wrong term. but allowing your enemy a strategic and tactical advantage against your own self interests is nonsensical. Those weapons that would be placed in Ukraine are all aiming at Russia
I know you find it hard to believe, but if China were to put a military and naval base in Toronto and Vancouver . the US would tell Canada that It is a direct threat to the US . And if Canada continues, it puts the US in an uncomfortable spot which it feels it must act in its own interests.
Canada is free to do whatever it wants , and the consequences of such actions are laid out in big red ink. the US will act to protect its own national interests independent of what Canada wants.
Right or wrong thats whats going to happen. When it come to a threat, theres going to be an unequal reaction
spat
.700 Nitro Express
So, you're saying Ukraine would have been fully justified in destroying those Russians *before* they crossed the border ?
Does that mean NATO is fully justified to steamroll the Russian forces in Ukraine today, because they are approaching the NATO borders ?
GOYABEAN
.950 JDJ
Lesson for today do not give up your toys under any circumstances I repeat "DON'T GIVE UP YOUR TOYS " 
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Who was shelling Donbas for 8 years. Who invited neo-Nazis from all over the world for Russian Safari.
They and their backers openly talk about it. Whether or not they can succeed on a large scale is another subject.
Kiev intends to kill as many Russians as possible – top Zelensky aide
Mikhail Podoliak says Kiev’s only plan is to launch a brutal offensive and kill the maximum amount of Russians
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There is no possibility the Ukrainians could kill all Russians. This is ridiculous.Who was shelling Donbas for 8 years. Who invited neo-Nazis from all over the world for Russian Safari.
They and their backers openly talk about it. Whether or not they can succeed on a large scale is another subject.
Kiev intends to kill as many Russians as possible – top Zelensky aide
Mikhail Podoliak says Kiev’s only plan is to launch a brutal offensive and kill the maximum amount of Russianswww.rt.com
Of course the Ukrainians want to inflict the maximum number of casualties during the offensive. The only way they can stop the invasion is to inflict as much pain as possible so the Russians go home. To equate that to genocide is paranoid delusional nonsense. One might say a typical Russian response.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Absolutely if they felt it was necessary. Its been US policy for years. Matter of fact this policy was used to invade Iraq in 2002 , they did not attack us they did not help the 911 terrorists, they did not supply terrorists with WMD's and didnt have much if any WMD's in Iraq. They posed no direct threat to the US . (Except when Russia does it, then its wrong)
Building on a concept he articulated in a June 2002 speech at West Point, President George W. Bush has adopted a new emphasis on preemption in his administration’s National Security Strategy (NSS), issued September 20, 2002. Preemption, defined as the anticipatory use of force in the face of an imminent attack, has long been accepted as legitimate and appropriate under international law. In the new NSS, however, the administration is broadening the meaning to encompass preventive war as well, in which force may be used even without evidence of an imminent attack to ensure that a serious threat to the United States does not “gather” or grow over time. The strategy also elevates preemption in importance, and visibility, within the tool kit of U.S. foreign policy.
The New National Security Strategy and Preemption | Brookings
Policy Brief #113, by Michael E. O'Hanlon, Susan E. Rice, and James B. Steinberg (December 2002)
www.brookings.edu
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There isn't a single genocide where ALL were killed. Most of the people killed in Donbas shelling were ethnic Russian civilians and they were targeted as such.
Serbian forces targeted Albanian militants KLA in Kosovo. U.S. propaganda lied about them targeting of civilians and called it a genocide, even though it didn't effect overwhelming majority of Albanians living in Albania.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
So, Putin what, wanted to make sure anyone left alive in the Donbass after the Ukranian Civil War got finished off, so he invaded ?
I can't imagine anyone living there is better off after his "help".
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Well, we better get in there then. Send in the F35s and eliminate anything more mechanized than a tricycle this side of Moscow....Absolutely if they felt it was necessary. Its been US policy for years. Matter of fact this policy was used to invade Iraq in 2002 , they did not attack us they did not help the 911 terrorists, they did not supply terrorists with WMD's and didnt have much if any WMD's in Iraq. They posed no direct threat to the US . (Except when Russia does it, then its wrong)
Building on a concept he articulated in a June 2002 speech at West Point, President George W. Bush has adopted a new emphasis on preemption in his administration’s National Security Strategy (NSS), issued September 20, 2002. Preemption, defined as the anticipatory use of force in the face of an imminent attack, has long been accepted as legitimate and appropriate under international law. In the new NSS, however, the administration is broadening the meaning to encompass preventive war as well, in which force may be used even without evidence of an imminent attack to ensure that a serious threat to the United States does not “gather” or grow over time. The strategy also elevates preemption in importance, and visibility, within the tool kit of U.S. foreign policy.
The New National Security Strategy and Preemption | Brookings
Policy Brief #113, by Michael E. O'Hanlon, Susan E. Rice, and James B. Steinberg (December 2002)
They are a part of Russia now and Russia is punching back. The children are able to go to the best schools in Russia away from the war. ICC labeled it a war crime.
So.... because the American government lied about that genocide you can lie about the Russian one? Is that the logic at play here?
American government lie was about who were the victims, not the standard used for genocide.
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
when is NATO showing up with a Treaty for them to sign ????
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Did these kids and their parents have a choice in the matter LOL?They are a part of Russia now and Russia is punching back. The children are able to go to the best schools in Russia away from the war. ICC labeled it a war crime.
"Best schools in Russia" is that like the "most honest guy in Albany" LOL.
First, I "ignore" Mosinitis - it's purely personal, and based on 2 irrelevant and unrelated things.
But, here, I'll speak my mind.
Yes, the "holodomor" was a genocide. I have studied genocides since I was 12 years old - almost 65 years.
But,...
1) it was conducted under the auspices of the USSR, not Russia. Not "samey-samey", but related.
2) Stalin, who ran the USSR then, with an iron fist ("stalin", in Russian, is supposed to mean "steel"???) was not a Russian, he was a Georgian.
I know a few Ukrainians - they universally hate Russians - I'm guessing this antipathy goes back generations, if not centuries, and is deeply embedded in the Ukrainian and Russian psyches.
Regardless, the fUSA has no interests there, except for the $$$$$$$$$$ that is flowing to corrupt politicians in the DC swamp which, to be real, is most of the fucking shitweasels.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
He's not lying, Russia has the best air defense in the world. Our money went into high end state of the art fighters , Russia 's money went into high end state of the art anti air missiles. the F16 as good as it is , is 50 year old aircraft, Up dated I know but not state of the art . the ukraine pilots, dont have the time needed in that aircraft to really learn it and know it. All Russian fighters would be fighting under the umbrella of the best anti air system in the world. The F16s, like the western tanks, just wont have the numbers needed to change the outcome of the war . Just like the other wonder weapons we sent.
Holodomor was a famine, it wasn't a genocide targeting Ukrainians. Ukrainians who hated Russians the most were in Western Ukraine, which wasn't even a part of the Soviet Union at the time of famine. You can ignore me, but you can't ignore history and geography.
My arguments are based on reality. I don't need to marry them to any ideology to please the readers.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Because their friends and family that were in *eastern* Ukraine all died.
FWIW, an engineered famine is one of the more common ways to attempt genocide.
They were in different Empires for generations, there were no family ties to speak of. Ukrainian Nationalist (OUN) movement was formed in 1929 to fight against Polish oppression and was treated by Polish government as a terrorist organization. Stalin and 1932 famine had nothing to do with it.
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Nevar
.357 mag
Stop sending unlimited $$$$$$$ to a commie who hate the USA.
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
looking out for his kickbacks ..
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Note where the escalation lies. And if he hits those bases, other aircraft are bound to be hit. Nato will begin useing all of its aircraft Because it would be stupid not to. and of course Russia will be blamed for escalation when it hits targets in Poland UK and Germany, Of course NATO would have to hit airbases deep inside Russia to have an effect. article 5 could be used. Starting a war and making it look like russia did it.
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ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
If we nuked Russia right now, Russia would be blamed for it, in our media.