fnfalguy
.308 Win
Looks like 6mm PPC if my highly evolved squinting technique is accurate
Thinking of building up a target rifle and looking for input
- Thread starter fnfalguy
- Start date
Looks like 6mm PPC if my highly evolved squinting technique is accurate
nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
Sorry that pic was a screen shot, here is the link Maretzo set shooting world record at PTRC | News, Sports, Jobs - Leader Herald
Maretzo set shooting world record at PTRC
LOCAL SPORTS
FEB 4, 2018
MIKE HAUSER
sports@leaderherald.com
Dr. Richard Maretzo is pictured at Pine Tree Rifle Club in Johnstown. (Photo contributed by Fulton County Baseball & Sports Hall of Fame)
In 1940, when Peter Dubuc landed a 46lb. 2oz., 52.5-inch long Northern Pike near Benedict Bay on the Broadalbin side of the Great Sacandaga Lake, Fulton County became best known in sporting circles world-wide for having produced the largest Pike ever caught on the entire globe.
That “world record” would hold up until the mid-1980’s when a larger Pike was caught in Germany. Today, Dubuc’s Fulton County pike is still a United States Record.
Around this same time, another new “world record” would come out of Fulton County at the Sept. 10, 1983 IBS National Shoot at the Pine Tree Rifle Club in Johnstown. International Benchrest Shooting (IBS) is the highest test of accuracy and precision in shooting sports where the object is to place five to 10 shots through the same hole on a target within a fixed time limit from a very long distance.
IBS National competitions originated at the Johnstown Club in 1947 when Harvey Donaldson and the original members of the club held the very first National Shoot. Since the sport was in its infancy, many records would be set and broken (leap frogged over) as the sport of Benchrest Shooting progressed from the 1940s through the 1960s.
By the 1970s, the records were established and very hard to match.
Fulton County’s next big sporting world record came during the Pine Tree Rifle Club’s 1983 IBS Group Competition when club member Dr. Richard Maretzo fired 10 shots from a distance of 100 yards and placed all 10 shots into a group that measured .119 of an inch in extreme spread (the size of a dime).
According to Pine Tree Rifle Club historian John DelSavio “this record truly raised the bar and still remains unbeaten through 70 years of competitions”.
Maretzo was using a rifle that was built by Seeley Masker and fired a 6MM PPC cartridge.
Maretzo grew up in Brooklyn, where he did not hunt.
However, on family vacations each summer in the Catskills, his Father would bring along his .22-caliber pistol and allowed him the opportunity to fire it.
When Maretzo joined the US Army in the mid-1950s his interest in shooting his father’s pistol as a young boy led to him participating on the Army’s competitive shooting team using a standard Army issued .45 Colt 1911 pistol.
In 1973, his family built a camp on Peck’s Lake where they spent their summers.
According to Maretzo “on days when the wind was just right, I could hear shooting off in the distance, but I did not know where the shots were coming from. One day I followed the sound of the shots down to town and ended up in front of the Pine Tree Rifle Club and went in and checked it out. I joined the club in 1975 and enjoyed precision target shooting and improving the accuracy of my firearms. In 1978, I had a customized .308 built for me by the Shilen Company, which was thought to be one of the better caliber precision shooting guns at the time. I was shooting at the club one afternoon and I heard a voice come up behind me asking if I would be interested in competitive shooting. The man behind the voice was club member Bob Bump. I told him that I had no knowledge of how to go about competing and simply enjoyed improving the accuracy of my firearms for myself. Bob immediately took me under his wing and taught me how to take my shooting to the next level in competition. We became very close friends and traveled from competition to competition across the Northeast every weekend beginning in 1979.”
Bump’s tutelage and all those competitions allowed Maretzo to hone his skills and become a very proficient long-distance shooter. Less than five years later, Maretzo would end up setting three world records in 1983 competitions.
Over his entire shooting career, he would set a total of six World Records, of which three are still active, and won the international championships in 1983, 1984 and 1985. He also served as the president of Precision Shooting Magazine for many years and was inducted into the Benchrest Hall of Fame in 1989.
The “Old #7 Benchrest” that he sat at to establish the 1983 world record in Johnstown is enshrined/on display in the entrance area of the Pine Tree Rifle Club, with a plaque that notes the club’s benchrest history, and Dr. Maretzo’s World Record shot there.
According to Maretzo “I had no idea in 1983, when I set the record as to how important it would become to the club. The attention and recognition I have received from it makes me very happy.”
Today at age 83, Dr. Maretzo runs a dental practice in Suffern (2 1/2 days per week) and is still an active member of the Pine Tree Rifle Club where he shoots in all IBS competitions held at the club.
Maretzo will be honored with induction into the Fulton County Baseball & Sports Hall of Fame on Saturday at the Johnstown Moose Club during the 13th Annual Adirondack Outdoorsman Show.
The induction ceremony will take place on the main show floor near the Pine Tree Rifle Club booth at 3 p.m.
Maretzo himself will be in attendance to receive his HOF plaque, along with officers of the Pine Tree Rifle Club.
For more information on the induction and event, visit www.adkshow.com.
Mike Hauser is the founder of the Fulton County Baseball & Sports Hall of Fame in Gloversville. If you have story ideas, old articles/photos or would like to nominate someone for the HOF, he can be reached through the organization’s website at www.fchof.com, email mhauser@frontiernet.net or at (518) 725-5565.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Thanks @nortatoga !
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
You can also hit 500 yards all day long with a .223/ 5.56. The Marines do it once a year for qualification.
And I agree with you about a overkill. Marine Scout/Snipers to this day also use the .308/7.62 at 1000 yards. Not worth the extra cost and unavailability with a wildcat 6mm for someone who will shoot at less than a few hundred yards.
Going to a 6mm for a few hundred yards is like us shooting a 55 gr vs a 77 gr at 25 yards.
Last edited:
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
You are way off track.
He is not shooting any frying pans.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
How so without jokes?
nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
Here is another good resource AccurateShooter.com if you aren't confused enough yet 
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
He wants to build a target rifle, not something that quals him at minute of man at 500 yards once a year, which I take as being something a bit more accurate and tuneable.
Just my take away.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Will,
You seem like a good guy but I am not sure what is happening to you lately that you seem to be looking for arguments everywhere.
Seriously man, you sound like a one song band.
Chilax man, change your tune, enjoy life a little! Lol
The marines do not qualify for 500 yards but 500 meters and all one has to do is to ring a torso. I had to do that with both 5.56 and 308.
Also if they had a 6mm thwt would be probably the perfect compct combar round. same if the 308 was a 7mm. It will automatically move the effective range 200 to 300 rounds respextively with the same amount of powder and based on improved ballistics alone.
The 6br is not a wildcat but a word champion in score competition in anythig from 100 to 500 meters. Ballistically it leaves the 223 and 308 behind but most importantly in top precision repeatibility. If you pick manufactured top shelve ammo for either caliber is going to be costly and not the 55fmj bulk stuff you refer to.
In service marches one is restricted by those calibers but in open matches like popular 300 socore competition about 80% of the rifles are 6mmBR and the rest many 6x47lapua both world champions.
If a service caliber was any better people would use them, but they dont. Thiis a fact.
I guess ine could compete with one and other than lival and small leagues one is not going to win shit with those. That is why they have their on leagues and classes for service rifle competition.
The OP wants to build a learn a precision setup and this train already left the station. So I suggest stay on course or take this non sense to a different thread or just get some popcorn and enjoy watching.
Come on man. The other day you even told me I hit a new low. Lows, higs, nobody cares.
Enjoy life. Life is short. Come on man!
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
You are incorrect. It's 500 yards. I know because I qualified 5 times on it. And I'm not looking for a fight. My point was that a 6mm for a person that will shoot a couple hundred yards is of no benefit compared to a common caliber. I didn't tag you. I tagged someone else. You responded with a frying pan joke. I asked you to please explain how someone will benefit with a 6mm at a couple hundred yards without a joke.
Read back.
Last edited:
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
The US is not the only country with marines. The US must be the only 1st world country still in the imperial system with military ranges in yards. Even weapons systems and fire formulas are all done k's, and metric system.
I know you are not looking for fights and just playing the same old broken record. So dont divert like that because that horse has already bolted and the caliber is 6mm that is for a precission rifle. So go get some pop corn and enjoy the OPs updates on his build.
This has nothing to do with service rounds and rifles so thia point is irrelevant at this time. This is a differnt ball game and it starts were those other calibers end.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I called a friend who had the very same stock you got. I think this type of stock would require some serious work so I am going to suggest you either do the work or go for a good stock.
If you dont want to spend too much B&C makes one type that is the medallist tactcal/target/varmint that will do the same a mcmillan stock will do for half the cost.
at the most you might do some skim bedding but you might get a good fit and just play with the toqueing and a blue die to make the action mate well. These are great value and all they need is minor deburring and fitting at most.
I dont think iancritical to start breaking in the wilson barrel and you can start with what you have, but at some point you want to adress that.
What about the legs? I am a harris guy.
fnfalguy
.308 Win
@meketrefe My plan with the stock is to give it a chance, and see what the rifle shoots like first and then start looking at stocks after that. Sort of a step wise approach. The bipod on the stock currently is a Harris S BR. I must be getting a bit excited as today I broke out the barrel blocks and action wrench and spun of the 308 barrel and now I wait. Have brass on order as well as a small selection of bullets.
Last edited:
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
What? My question was what can a 6mm do within 300 yards that any rifle caliber cannot within a few hundred yards. I don't know what the Marines in other countries that you are referring to is so about. It was a simple question. That is all.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
Some cartidges are more accurate than others. 6mm br is one of them from what I have read. It also handles wind better than most. I have used 6.5 quite a bit and am impressed. Bucks the wind , low recoil and accurate (more so than most others).
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Thank you.
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
What?!
You're not done yet, @fnfalguy?
Three day weekend and snowstorm coming. Get on it man!
And thanks for the great read above, @nortatoga.
You're not done yet, @fnfalguy?
Three day weekend and snowstorm coming. Get on it man!
And thanks for the great read above, @nortatoga.
Jaywmustang
.308 Win
Excited to see your results!!
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
6.5x47 another one that racks up medals left and right, specially in Europe/overseas.
The thing about the 6BR is that is pretty economical because of the amount of powder and efficiency and you have match bullet bulk packs in the
same price (or better) as the 223 mm bulk packs but most importantly, is the speed/ballistic coefficient ratio with comparable recoil to a 22 caliber and unmatched repeatability.
Will thinks the 223 or 308 can do the same and he is wrong. It doesn't mean the 223 or 308 cannot be built as a precission rifle but it is a different
ball game and service matches or 500 yards / mts qualifications have nothing to do with the route the OP took.
Just to be clear, the 6mmBR is not just a Bench Rest Round. It is an excellent AR and and Practical round that can be put together in a compact
precision rifle. By the same token it is a nice round for small animals up to a limit like small white tail / white bears like many other 6mm.
It is one of the most, if not the most efficient rounds ever designed and it is freaking accurate all the time. This is both by design and by
the quality of components normally associated with the typical materials (Brass, bullets, rifles, sights, etc...) and shooters who associate with this round.
nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
Another article you guys might like.
Harvey A. Donaldson - Fulton County Sports HOF Inductions
Harvey A. Donaldson, the Founding Father of Modern Bench Rest Shooting
By Mike Hauser
Throughout our nation's history, firearms have been a crucial tool for its inhabitants to feed their families, protection against predators and for citizen militias. And throughout this time, gunsmiths in America have been designing firearms to be more accurate and effective for its users. It is this spirit of improvement that has led to the advancement in firearms and ammunition since the creation of the gun. One of the most well-known rifle cartridge designers and experimenters of the 20th Century was Harvey A. Donaldson of Fultonville New York. Donaldson was born on April 6, 1884 in Fultonville, where he attended public school. His Mother, an area school teacher, was considered one of the "best gun shooters" in the Northeast in the 1870's. She learned the art of rifle and shotgun shooting from her older brother (A.B. Jones), who had been a member of the Berdan Regiment of Sharpshooters in the Civil War. Together, they attended many area turkey shoots to test their skills and compete. When Harvey turned seven years old, his mother and uncle (who he referred to as his "Shooting Uncle") began passing down the art of shooting and the skills of reloading to him, which led to a life-long passion for firearms and ammunitions.
Donaldson was a typical active male growing up, participating in football, basketball and tennis. Most of his remaining free time was spent hunting woodchucks and crows. At the age of 14 (1898) he attended the Peekskill Military Academy in Peekskill New York. After three years of military school, he attended the Albany Business College in Albany, New York in 1900, where he took up the subject of banking and bookkeeping because he liked anything that demanded accuracy. After his schooling was complete, he worked for a time as a bookkeeper and then learned the woodworking trade while employed by the Rome Brass and Copper Company making wood patterns. During World War I, he worked for the Remington Arms Company in Ilion New York as a small arms inspector and taught manual training (wood and metal working) in a local high school at night. After the war, he learned the tool-making trade, which eventually brought him back to Fultonville. In 1935, the Fultonville Machine and Tool Company was founded and Harvey was hired on as its first machinist and toolmaker. He would continue to work for this company until he was well into his 80's.
When Harvey was fifteen years old (around the time of the Spanish American War), he started accompanying his uncle to turkey shoots much like his mother had in her younger days. In the late 1800's & early 1900's, competitive shooting was an important sporting activity, and was covered in the media as much as baseball, football and other popular sports are today. He also began reading his uncle's copies of 'Shooting and Fishing' (a popular publication of that time), which led to his interest in Schuetzen shooting at the turn of the century. This form of shooting was performed with a single shot rifle, and the practitioner strived for precise shot placement into the bullseye of a 25-ring target, from a distance of 200 yards. His first Schuetzen rifle was a Pope rifle that was made by famed gun maker Harry Pope in 1903. The more he shot the gun, the more he questioned many things about its performance and how to improve it. He searched for information that he could not find in his uncle's magazines. It was at that time that his 'Shooting uncle' gave him some very profound advice that would set him on a lifelong quest for more knowledge to improve his shooting through the better understanding of the equipment used. He told him "Boy, if you want to learn anything about shooting, go to the man who knows how to shoot." Based on that advice, the young Donaldson began a letter writing campaign in which he corresponded with the experts he read about in the publications of the day, such as rifle designer Harry Pope, ballistics expert Franklin Weston Mann, custom rifle manufacturer Adolph O. Niedner and cartridge designer Charles Newton (to name a few). And much to Donaldson's surprise, they all responded to his questions, setting him off on life-long learning tour. He would eventually become personal friends with these experts, attending Schuetzen shoots with and working side by side doing shooting and ammunition experiments with the biggest names in the industry.
The lessons learned participating in Schuetzen Shooting were the foundation for the various case experiments he would conduct. At that time, handloading was a no more than a small hobby that was openly opposed by the major gun manufacturers. But Donaldson felt it was a necessity to experiment with bullet design (wildcatting) to find a proper load for a particular rifle. Around 1910, he started designing cases and made jacketed bullets with Niedner swages, utilizing things he learned in his correspondence with Dr. Mann and Niedner himself. He was never content and kept trying for something better. This led to him creating several unique new rifle cartridges and authoring articles in several magazines in the ammunition and firearms fields in 'The American Rifleman', 'Handloader; The Journal of Ammunition Reloading', and 'The Ultimate in Rifle Precision'. Through these writings he shared his vast knowledge on the subject of rifles, making him famous in the gun world and one of the world's authorities on rifle accuracy.
After World War I, anything associated with Germany or "German" was shunned, and use of the Schuetzen Rifle declined and the Schuetzen Matches eventually came to an end in the late 1920's. This left Donaldson with very few formal outlets to compete and test the things he was learning and creating through his experimentation. To continue to hone his skills at long-distance shooting, he hunted woodchucks in the local area. Woodchucks are a nuisance to area farmers as they damage their fields, crops, equipment and livestock. Farm equipment damages their axles when riding into their holes, and broken legs of livestock ensue if they step into the holes burrowed by the rodents for their dens. Eradicating a woodchuck is difficult, as they have excellent eyesight, and on the open farmlands of the Upstate New York area they have open views of hundreds of yards. And once they sense danger, they immediately drop back into their dens. In order to shoot such cunning creatures, woodchuck hunting demands accurate long-range shots at a very small target. To continue to make improvements to this type of shooting, Donaldson drew from the knowledge and spirit of experimentation he had gained from his relationships with the likes of industry legends Pope, Mann, Niedner and Newton. In 1937, Donaldson created a new wildcat target/varmint cartridge design by reshaping the body of the case of a bullet to allow more grains of powder. This increased the velocity of the bullet, while maintaining its accuracy. This allowed for a very powerful and accurate shot at long ranges, which was perfect for woodchuck hunting. This new cartridge design would become known as the .219 Donaldson Wasp Cartridge. The praise that this new cartridge began receiving in gun magazines led to gunsmiths throughout the United States building rifles specifically chambered for it. This raised the bar in the world of long-distance shooting.
That same year he designed the now infamous .219 Donaldson Wasp Cartridge (1937), a group of Fulton County shooting enthusiasts organized a shooting club called the Pine Tree Rifle Club. In early 1938 the club leased 30 acres of land North of Johnstown located on what is now Johnson Avenue. On this land, they built a 100-yard range and an area for trap shooting. For the first few years they would hold meetings at each of the member's homes. In 1940 they built a clubhouse on the same piece of leased land, and in 1941 the club was granted a State Charter. Around this time, club membership had risen to approximately 150 members, all of whom used the ranges and property for family picnics. Turkey shoots, clambakes and dinners were held to raise funds for improvements at the club and in 1942 they purchased the land. Nothing out of the ordinary compared to the thousands of Rod & Gun Clubs that blanketed North America at that time.
That same year he designed the now infamous .219 Donaldson Wasp Cartridge (1937), a group of Fulton County shooting enthusiasts organized a shooting club called the Pine Tree Rifle Club. In early 1938 the club leased 30 acres of land North of Johnstown located on what is now Johnson Avenue. On this land, they built a 100-yard range and an area for trap shooting. For the first few years they would hold meetings at each of the member's homes. In 1940 they built a clubhouse on the same piece of leased land, and in 1941 the club was granted a State Charter. Around this time, club membership had risen to approximately 150 members, all of whom used the ranges and property for family picnics. Turkey shoots, clambakes and dinners were held to raise funds for improvements at the club and in 1942 they purchased the land. Nothing out of the ordinary compared to the thousands of Rod & Gun Clubs that blanketed North America at that time.
Another historical occurrence in the history of benchrest shooting also took place that weekend when the Eastern Bench Rest Shooter's Association was formed by those in attendance. The aim and object of the Association was voted to be; "the advancement of experimenting through benchrest shooting, in order to improve the performance of various rifles, both in match and varmint shooting, along with the components and other accessories; to obtain the utmost in rifle accuracy; and to force the improvements in rifles and ammunition through individual experimenting." Donaldson was appointed president of the organization and it was agreed upon that the group would meet and hold a benchrest match every Labor Day at the club. With this event and meeting, the sport of benchrest shooting was officially born! The organization changed its name to Benchrest Shooters Association in 1948 so as not to limit them to a regional membership and allow shooting enthusiasts from across the United States and Canada to join. Today the original benchrest organization formed at the clubs first shoot in 1947 still operates, but under the name of International Benchrest Shooters (IBS). The organization is now nearly 1,000 strong and boasts members from all over the world. These members approach long-range shooting with the same philosophies & reverence that Donaldson and his group of woodchuck hunting cronies from the Pine Tree Rifle Club did at that historic Memorial Day 1947 competition. Who knew that Upstate New York had the "Abner Doubleday of benchrest shooting" grow up here and create an international sport right here in our own backyard!
Part I
Harvey A. Donaldson - Fulton County Sports HOF Inductions
Harvey A. Donaldson, the Founding Father of Modern Bench Rest Shooting
By Mike Hauser
Throughout our nation's history, firearms have been a crucial tool for its inhabitants to feed their families, protection against predators and for citizen militias. And throughout this time, gunsmiths in America have been designing firearms to be more accurate and effective for its users. It is this spirit of improvement that has led to the advancement in firearms and ammunition since the creation of the gun. One of the most well-known rifle cartridge designers and experimenters of the 20th Century was Harvey A. Donaldson of Fultonville New York. Donaldson was born on April 6, 1884 in Fultonville, where he attended public school. His Mother, an area school teacher, was considered one of the "best gun shooters" in the Northeast in the 1870's. She learned the art of rifle and shotgun shooting from her older brother (A.B. Jones), who had been a member of the Berdan Regiment of Sharpshooters in the Civil War. Together, they attended many area turkey shoots to test their skills and compete. When Harvey turned seven years old, his mother and uncle (who he referred to as his "Shooting Uncle") began passing down the art of shooting and the skills of reloading to him, which led to a life-long passion for firearms and ammunitions.
Donaldson was a typical active male growing up, participating in football, basketball and tennis. Most of his remaining free time was spent hunting woodchucks and crows. At the age of 14 (1898) he attended the Peekskill Military Academy in Peekskill New York. After three years of military school, he attended the Albany Business College in Albany, New York in 1900, where he took up the subject of banking and bookkeeping because he liked anything that demanded accuracy. After his schooling was complete, he worked for a time as a bookkeeper and then learned the woodworking trade while employed by the Rome Brass and Copper Company making wood patterns. During World War I, he worked for the Remington Arms Company in Ilion New York as a small arms inspector and taught manual training (wood and metal working) in a local high school at night. After the war, he learned the tool-making trade, which eventually brought him back to Fultonville. In 1935, the Fultonville Machine and Tool Company was founded and Harvey was hired on as its first machinist and toolmaker. He would continue to work for this company until he was well into his 80's.
When Harvey was fifteen years old (around the time of the Spanish American War), he started accompanying his uncle to turkey shoots much like his mother had in her younger days. In the late 1800's & early 1900's, competitive shooting was an important sporting activity, and was covered in the media as much as baseball, football and other popular sports are today. He also began reading his uncle's copies of 'Shooting and Fishing' (a popular publication of that time), which led to his interest in Schuetzen shooting at the turn of the century. This form of shooting was performed with a single shot rifle, and the practitioner strived for precise shot placement into the bullseye of a 25-ring target, from a distance of 200 yards. His first Schuetzen rifle was a Pope rifle that was made by famed gun maker Harry Pope in 1903. The more he shot the gun, the more he questioned many things about its performance and how to improve it. He searched for information that he could not find in his uncle's magazines. It was at that time that his 'Shooting uncle' gave him some very profound advice that would set him on a lifelong quest for more knowledge to improve his shooting through the better understanding of the equipment used. He told him "Boy, if you want to learn anything about shooting, go to the man who knows how to shoot." Based on that advice, the young Donaldson began a letter writing campaign in which he corresponded with the experts he read about in the publications of the day, such as rifle designer Harry Pope, ballistics expert Franklin Weston Mann, custom rifle manufacturer Adolph O. Niedner and cartridge designer Charles Newton (to name a few). And much to Donaldson's surprise, they all responded to his questions, setting him off on life-long learning tour. He would eventually become personal friends with these experts, attending Schuetzen shoots with and working side by side doing shooting and ammunition experiments with the biggest names in the industry.
The lessons learned participating in Schuetzen Shooting were the foundation for the various case experiments he would conduct. At that time, handloading was a no more than a small hobby that was openly opposed by the major gun manufacturers. But Donaldson felt it was a necessity to experiment with bullet design (wildcatting) to find a proper load for a particular rifle. Around 1910, he started designing cases and made jacketed bullets with Niedner swages, utilizing things he learned in his correspondence with Dr. Mann and Niedner himself. He was never content and kept trying for something better. This led to him creating several unique new rifle cartridges and authoring articles in several magazines in the ammunition and firearms fields in 'The American Rifleman', 'Handloader; The Journal of Ammunition Reloading', and 'The Ultimate in Rifle Precision'. Through these writings he shared his vast knowledge on the subject of rifles, making him famous in the gun world and one of the world's authorities on rifle accuracy.
After World War I, anything associated with Germany or "German" was shunned, and use of the Schuetzen Rifle declined and the Schuetzen Matches eventually came to an end in the late 1920's. This left Donaldson with very few formal outlets to compete and test the things he was learning and creating through his experimentation. To continue to hone his skills at long-distance shooting, he hunted woodchucks in the local area. Woodchucks are a nuisance to area farmers as they damage their fields, crops, equipment and livestock. Farm equipment damages their axles when riding into their holes, and broken legs of livestock ensue if they step into the holes burrowed by the rodents for their dens. Eradicating a woodchuck is difficult, as they have excellent eyesight, and on the open farmlands of the Upstate New York area they have open views of hundreds of yards. And once they sense danger, they immediately drop back into their dens. In order to shoot such cunning creatures, woodchuck hunting demands accurate long-range shots at a very small target. To continue to make improvements to this type of shooting, Donaldson drew from the knowledge and spirit of experimentation he had gained from his relationships with the likes of industry legends Pope, Mann, Niedner and Newton. In 1937, Donaldson created a new wildcat target/varmint cartridge design by reshaping the body of the case of a bullet to allow more grains of powder. This increased the velocity of the bullet, while maintaining its accuracy. This allowed for a very powerful and accurate shot at long ranges, which was perfect for woodchuck hunting. This new cartridge design would become known as the .219 Donaldson Wasp Cartridge. The praise that this new cartridge began receiving in gun magazines led to gunsmiths throughout the United States building rifles specifically chambered for it. This raised the bar in the world of long-distance shooting.
That same year he designed the now infamous .219 Donaldson Wasp Cartridge (1937), a group of Fulton County shooting enthusiasts organized a shooting club called the Pine Tree Rifle Club. In early 1938 the club leased 30 acres of land North of Johnstown located on what is now Johnson Avenue. On this land, they built a 100-yard range and an area for trap shooting. For the first few years they would hold meetings at each of the member's homes. In 1940 they built a clubhouse on the same piece of leased land, and in 1941 the club was granted a State Charter. Around this time, club membership had risen to approximately 150 members, all of whom used the ranges and property for family picnics. Turkey shoots, clambakes and dinners were held to raise funds for improvements at the club and in 1942 they purchased the land. Nothing out of the ordinary compared to the thousands of Rod & Gun Clubs that blanketed North America at that time.
That same year he designed the now infamous .219 Donaldson Wasp Cartridge (1937), a group of Fulton County shooting enthusiasts organized a shooting club called the Pine Tree Rifle Club. In early 1938 the club leased 30 acres of land North of Johnstown located on what is now Johnson Avenue. On this land, they built a 100-yard range and an area for trap shooting. For the first few years they would hold meetings at each of the member's homes. In 1940 they built a clubhouse on the same piece of leased land, and in 1941 the club was granted a State Charter. Around this time, club membership had risen to approximately 150 members, all of whom used the ranges and property for family picnics. Turkey shoots, clambakes and dinners were held to raise funds for improvements at the club and in 1942 they purchased the land. Nothing out of the ordinary compared to the thousands of Rod & Gun Clubs that blanketed North America at that time.
Another historical occurrence in the history of benchrest shooting also took place that weekend when the Eastern Bench Rest Shooter's Association was formed by those in attendance. The aim and object of the Association was voted to be; "the advancement of experimenting through benchrest shooting, in order to improve the performance of various rifles, both in match and varmint shooting, along with the components and other accessories; to obtain the utmost in rifle accuracy; and to force the improvements in rifles and ammunition through individual experimenting." Donaldson was appointed president of the organization and it was agreed upon that the group would meet and hold a benchrest match every Labor Day at the club. With this event and meeting, the sport of benchrest shooting was officially born! The organization changed its name to Benchrest Shooters Association in 1948 so as not to limit them to a regional membership and allow shooting enthusiasts from across the United States and Canada to join. Today the original benchrest organization formed at the clubs first shoot in 1947 still operates, but under the name of International Benchrest Shooters (IBS). The organization is now nearly 1,000 strong and boasts members from all over the world. These members approach long-range shooting with the same philosophies & reverence that Donaldson and his group of woodchuck hunting cronies from the Pine Tree Rifle Club did at that historic Memorial Day 1947 competition. Who knew that Upstate New York had the "Abner Doubleday of benchrest shooting" grow up here and create an international sport right here in our own backyard!
Part I
nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
Part II
Harvey A. Donaldson - Fulton County Sports HOF Inductions
Harvey A. Donaldson, the Founding Father of Modern Bench Rest Shooting
By Mike Hauser
True to the original initiative set forth in 1947, The Pine Tree Rifle Club would be the site of NYS & National Shoots until the mid-1980's. At the 1983 IBS National Shoot, club member Dr. Richard Maretzo established a new world record when he placed 10 shots from 100 yards into a group that measured .119 of an inch in extreme spread (size of a dime). After a nearly 30-year hiatus, IBS competition was brought back to the club in 2014 using a SCORE format, spearheaded by club member and accomplished area shooter John DelSavio. After two successful IBS shoots, the club was awarded the 100/200-yard IBS SCORE Nationals Championships in August 2016. This brought 54 of the top shooters from across the country to compete, and Dean Breeden from Maryland set two new world records. Because of the success of these recent events, future National Championships are expected to be brought back to the club as early as 2019. As the club enters its 81st year in existence, it now supports a membership of 1,350 and maintains one of the best & most historic shooting facilities in the nation. In addition to the historic 200-yard range built in 1947, they now have a total of 39 benchrests (30 for IBS competition). The facility now consists of 94 acres containing; two skeet fields, one trap field (complete with skeet building made out of the original club house from 1940), 1 ½ mile 3D archery course, outside pistol range, pavilion and a 30' BBQ pit. The original clubhouse (now the skeet building) was replaced in 1951 by a state-of-the-art building complete with a full bar, banquet hall, meeting rooms and 50' indoor pistol range. The club has also been the host site of the New York State benchrest shooting championships each year since 2014. And as the club closes out its season each September with its final 200-yard match, the event ends with "Donaldson Memorial Match." This is a separate match in which any shooter in attendance can participate in a 200-yard shoot, but shooting at a smaller 100-yard target. The smaller target makes for a more challenging competition, in honor of Harvey Donaldson and the spirit of his early days of pioneering precision rifle accuracy, by inspiring individual marksmanship and ingenuity.
In addition to being known as the 'Father of modern organized rifle bench rest shooting', Donaldson was also a sports car enthusiast. He bought his first car (a Stanley Steamer) in 1900, when there were only 1,000 cars in all of New York State at the time. He also loved Chevy muscle cars, especially Corvettes and Chevelles. General Motors featured a write up about him in their Corvette Magazine in 1961 in which they recognized him as the oldest known member of the Corvette Club and the oldest sports car driver in the United States. He was also a member of the NRA and the Fultonville Reformed Church. Donaldson passed away on November 6, 1972 just shy of his 90th birthday and is buried in the Maple Avenue Cemetery in Fultonville.
Harvey A. Donaldson has been nominated for induction into the Fulton County Baseball & Sports Hall of Fame for his role in establishing the first modern benchrest rifle competition in 1947, leading to the sport becoming established internationally. His induction will take place on Saturday February 9th (3pm) at the Johnstown Moose Club (109 S. Comrie Avenue-Johnstown) during the Adirondack Outdoorsman Show's two-day event. Pine Tree Rifle Club board members will be on hand with an exhibit documenting & celebrating Donaldson and the history of benchrest shooting. Benchrest shooting historian John DelSavio will also be on hand at the event signing copies of his book "Pine Tree Rifle Club - A Pictorial History (1937-2014)". For more information on the event, visit www.adkshow.com . A special thanks to John DelSavio, Paul Catucci and Ken Benton for their research assistance in writing this article.
Mike Hauser is the founder of the Fulton County Baseball & Sports Hall of Fame in Gloversville. If you have story ideas, old articles/photos or would like to nominate someone for the HOF, he can be reached through the organization's website at www.fchof.com or at 518-725-5565.
Harvey A. Donaldson - Fulton County Sports HOF Inductions
Harvey A. Donaldson, the Founding Father of Modern Bench Rest Shooting
By Mike Hauser
True to the original initiative set forth in 1947, The Pine Tree Rifle Club would be the site of NYS & National Shoots until the mid-1980's. At the 1983 IBS National Shoot, club member Dr. Richard Maretzo established a new world record when he placed 10 shots from 100 yards into a group that measured .119 of an inch in extreme spread (size of a dime). After a nearly 30-year hiatus, IBS competition was brought back to the club in 2014 using a SCORE format, spearheaded by club member and accomplished area shooter John DelSavio. After two successful IBS shoots, the club was awarded the 100/200-yard IBS SCORE Nationals Championships in August 2016. This brought 54 of the top shooters from across the country to compete, and Dean Breeden from Maryland set two new world records. Because of the success of these recent events, future National Championships are expected to be brought back to the club as early as 2019. As the club enters its 81st year in existence, it now supports a membership of 1,350 and maintains one of the best & most historic shooting facilities in the nation. In addition to the historic 200-yard range built in 1947, they now have a total of 39 benchrests (30 for IBS competition). The facility now consists of 94 acres containing; two skeet fields, one trap field (complete with skeet building made out of the original club house from 1940), 1 ½ mile 3D archery course, outside pistol range, pavilion and a 30' BBQ pit. The original clubhouse (now the skeet building) was replaced in 1951 by a state-of-the-art building complete with a full bar, banquet hall, meeting rooms and 50' indoor pistol range. The club has also been the host site of the New York State benchrest shooting championships each year since 2014. And as the club closes out its season each September with its final 200-yard match, the event ends with "Donaldson Memorial Match." This is a separate match in which any shooter in attendance can participate in a 200-yard shoot, but shooting at a smaller 100-yard target. The smaller target makes for a more challenging competition, in honor of Harvey Donaldson and the spirit of his early days of pioneering precision rifle accuracy, by inspiring individual marksmanship and ingenuity.
In addition to being known as the 'Father of modern organized rifle bench rest shooting', Donaldson was also a sports car enthusiast. He bought his first car (a Stanley Steamer) in 1900, when there were only 1,000 cars in all of New York State at the time. He also loved Chevy muscle cars, especially Corvettes and Chevelles. General Motors featured a write up about him in their Corvette Magazine in 1961 in which they recognized him as the oldest known member of the Corvette Club and the oldest sports car driver in the United States. He was also a member of the NRA and the Fultonville Reformed Church. Donaldson passed away on November 6, 1972 just shy of his 90th birthday and is buried in the Maple Avenue Cemetery in Fultonville.
Harvey A. Donaldson has been nominated for induction into the Fulton County Baseball & Sports Hall of Fame for his role in establishing the first modern benchrest rifle competition in 1947, leading to the sport becoming established internationally. His induction will take place on Saturday February 9th (3pm) at the Johnstown Moose Club (109 S. Comrie Avenue-Johnstown) during the Adirondack Outdoorsman Show's two-day event. Pine Tree Rifle Club board members will be on hand with an exhibit documenting & celebrating Donaldson and the history of benchrest shooting. Benchrest shooting historian John DelSavio will also be on hand at the event signing copies of his book "Pine Tree Rifle Club - A Pictorial History (1937-2014)". For more information on the event, visit www.adkshow.com . A special thanks to John DelSavio, Paul Catucci and Ken Benton for their research assistance in writing this article.
Mike Hauser is the founder of the Fulton County Baseball & Sports Hall of Fame in Gloversville. If you have story ideas, old articles/photos or would like to nominate someone for the HOF, he can be reached through the organization's website at www.fchof.com or at 518-725-5565.
nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
The IBS 600 yard target
Heavy Paper, 600 Yard, Bench Rest, Printed in blue, Size 21" x 24"
I don't think the Military use's a target this size to qualify, more like these.
Heavy Paper, 600 Yard, Bench Rest, Printed in blue, Size 21" x 24"I don't think the Military use's a target this size to qualify, more like these.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
If you want to do a full bedding I think you should consider a larger recoil lug and then tap it at the bottom for a small screw.
Why?
well this is not just to put an extra anchor point but it can be used to tune the harmonics in a very simple and elegant way.
I discovered this when building the the multicaliber adapter for my 7mm gunner that esentially allow you to use a custom thread
in the tenon to swap wildcat barrels bettween savaage(both shank sizes) and remington, chinchester, mauser, etc...
The adapter works as both a recoil lug and anchoring point and it has a screw on the back that ightents this part to the bedding.
By using different torque settings I found that I can play with the accuracy node among the different calibers and bullets.
Some BR rifles use other methods like extended adapters and atenuators that can be in direct contact with the barrel just
ahead of the shank.
This is why the stock has to be very rigid and cannot be any pressure signs including when going prone.
This is something you can measure with a gauge and I am thinking the choate might not be up to the task w/o some serious
bedding work.
Why?
well this is not just to put an extra anchor point but it can be used to tune the harmonics in a very simple and elegant way.
I discovered this when building the the multicaliber adapter for my 7mm gunner that esentially allow you to use a custom thread
in the tenon to swap wildcat barrels bettween savaage(both shank sizes) and remington, chinchester, mauser, etc...
The adapter works as both a recoil lug and anchoring point and it has a screw on the back that ightents this part to the bedding.
By using different torque settings I found that I can play with the accuracy node among the different calibers and bullets.
Some BR rifles use other methods like extended adapters and atenuators that can be in direct contact with the barrel just
ahead of the shank.
This is why the stock has to be very rigid and cannot be any pressure signs including when going prone.
This is something you can measure with a gauge and I am thinking the choate might not be up to the task w/o some serious
bedding work.
fnfalguy
.308 Win
It’s been about two months and yesterday I got word that the back ordered Shilen barrel is now available and on its way to me. The glass which will be used on it is a Vortex Diamondback 6-24x50 as I have one not currently on a rifle. Reloading dies also procured and waiting on brass to also come off back order. Have a few boxes of factory Ammo to play with initially. More to come...
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
how is the project going?
fnfalguy
.308 Win
Lol. Slower than I would like. Last weekend I spun on the barrel and headspaced it. Then on Monday started to replace the trigger and ran into some hiccups with the replacement trigger. A few phone calls with the mfg and that’s fixed.
Then of course something else pops up. Wrong size scope rings on the rifle. So back to waiting for a little bit. Hopefully have her out on the range in a couple of weeks.
In the meantime, on the components front, got in some shiny Lapua Brass, some 105gr Bergers and some 107gr Sierras to load up and play with.
Then of course something else pops up. Wrong size scope rings on the rifle. So back to waiting for a little bit. Hopefully have her out on the range in a couple of weeks.
In the meantime, on the components front, got in some shiny Lapua Brass, some 105gr Bergers and some 107gr Sierras to load up and play with.
fnfalguy
.308 Win
Finally had a chance today to get out to the range and run 40 rounds through the rifle, including sighting it it for the first time. The gun recoils like a pussy cat and can out shoot my skill set and my eyes. I realized that I was having a rough time at 100 yds with even the scope down to its max magnification (24x). At this point I’m not going to do anything else to it until my wife tells me to as it’s her rifle. I included one of the 3 shot sighting groups from 50 yds and the other 2 groups are from 100 yds. All I shot today was factory HSM (75 gr A-max) and factory Lapua (105 scenar-L and 105 scenar). Next time I may try to bring a few different target types to see how those work. Anyhoo, as I hoped, its under MOA all day with a lousy rifleman and can’t wait to see what the wife thinks.
Thanks for all who contributed.
Thanks for all who contributed.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Looking good. One can tell the rifle is doing great. you need to take less coffee!! lol
Those lapua loads are amazing. no matter what year what batch they are always so consistent.
US ammo makers could learn a thing or two from these Finnish guys.
I Mesa AZ they have an enclose test site where one can go and test the 22LR ammo.
Those lapua loads are amazing. no matter what year what batch they are always so consistent.
US ammo makers could learn a thing or two from these Finnish guys.
I Mesa AZ they have an enclose test site where one can go and test the 22LR ammo.
Last edited:
Awesome looking build and damn nice groups all well below MOA.
fnfalguy
.308 Win
@meketrefe still at the range but she has seemed to take to the rifle. For some reason it’s name is “Frank”. Sometimes I think it’s best not to act. Her most recent group attached. And boy them Finns know how to load ammo.