Thoughts on this enforcement action...

[Cooolone]

Ok, first and foremost, this is not intended to be in any way, shape or form, a cop bashing thread! If you can't provide constructive input, refrain from participating, ok!

Check this out...

Utah sheriff’s deputies fire 75 shots at fleeing suspect

This one has more and better information.

Utah sheriff’s deputies fire 75 shots at murder suspect

After watching, my issue is the "Automatic" weapon employed by the so called "SWAT" officer. I'd like your thoughts on this...

Key point in my mind, this "SWAT" officer sped past the suspect, and blocked the next exit, armed himself with his "military" full auto rifle and fired upon the suspect as he drove by, not driving at the officer, but passing him... And that officer sprayed 27 rounds at the suspects vehicle while sweeping his rifle across the highway aiming at the passing vehicle.

I'm not dismissing the danger the suspect represented, nor the danger to the officers involved. I would have no problem if the suspect didn't make it, as god would have it, he did. My thoughts are the ridiculous irony that their actions were represented to protect the community and in doing so utilizing their methods they grossly endangered it. I truly feel this to be a ridiculous over-reaction and misuse of force. A bit "Dirty Harry" if you will and some real cowboy shit! This isn't a military operation with an ROE that allows for the indiscriminate use of deadly force with a wanton disregard for collateral damage as long as an objective is achieved. It's law enforcement! Not Hollywood!

And oh, 75 rounds, 3 hits...! Anyways... Your thoughts.

 

[VietnamEraVet]

I watched the video on this elsewhere, and was honestly surprised. I knew that at least some SWAT units had some full auto M-16’s. But if everyday officers are running around with full auto long guns,- that strikes me as a bit of overkill if not outright militarization of the police.

The other thing that struck me as well, was that he sprayed at the car as it blew past him, with plenty of other traffic behind that car, and directly in his line of fire. I would really, really hate to have been in one of those other vehicles.

 

[Saltwater60]

I watched the video on this elsewhere, and was honestly surprised. I knew that at least some SWAT units had some full auto M-16’s. But if everyday officers are running around with full auto long guns,- that strikes me as a bit of overkill if not outright militarization of the police.

The other thing that struck me as well, was that he sprayed at the car as it blew past him, with plenty of other traffic behind that car, and directly in his line of fire. I would really, really hate to have been in one of those other vehicles.

I agree with you 100%, but my understanding is that cop with the full auto is a swat officer. If that’s the case I dont have an issue with him having the full auto AR, plus he hit the car with every shot fired. Pretty good honestly. I agree it was reckless to shoot at the car with what was behind him. He posed no immediate threat. If there was no one behind the suspect I’d have no issue with it.

In my town the guys on the swat team are allowed to carry selective fire AR-15’s.

 

[C3D]

Bad guy stopped. No collateral damage. Everyone went home safe.

 

[ProgSpear]

Must be that spike strips are passe now - not "kinetic" enough?

 

[Doc8404]

I agree with you 100%, but my understanding is that cop with the full auto is a swat officer. If that’s the case I dont have an issue with him having the full auto AR, plus he hit the car with every shot fired. Pretty good honestly. I agree it was reckless to shoot at the car with what was behind him. He posed no immediate threat. If there was no one behind the suspect I’d have no issue with it.

In my town the guys on the swat team are allowed to carry selective fire AR-15’s.

I didn’t waist time watching the video
OP says 3 our of 75 rounds hit target.
You are saying 100%
Which is it?

 

[GUNSICK]

Bad guy stopped. No collateral damage. Everyone went home safe.

Bystander shot and 4 year old almost killed riding in parents vehicle.

 

[Cooolone]

Bad guy stopped. No collateral damage. Everyone went home safe.

Sorry, you're misinformed! And that as it may be, does not justify the means!

Force, should meet force... Full auto on a moving car, is to an excess that is unacceptable in my opinion. Full auto vs a greater number of armed threats attacking and a concentrated sustained fire is required in response, yeah ok get to it! Swat officer playing Rambo, not ok!

I don't have a problem with the existence of potential use of military weapons by LE locally, but it has its place and proper use.

Must be that spike strips are passe now - not "kinetic" enough?

Hahaha, that was my though when I first watched the video, ie, he had time to get ahead, pull over, get out, get rifle, locate himself... Where's the spikes? Lol, amazing thing is supposedly the suspects rear two tires were shot out and he still drove away.

Bystander shot and 4 year old almost killed riding in parents vehicle.

Yes... And could've been worse as there's 72 rounds that missed the intended target. Not a great ratio but expected in the adrenaline dump of course, 27 fired by the rifle. The ends do not justify the means.

 

[Doc8404]

Can’t control full auto in the scenarios they are faced with.

 

[Airborneguy]

Every round hit the car from what I read. It’s an MP5. Easily controllable on F/A. I fired them many times in the Army.

 

[Doc8404]

As have I with the USMC PM office....i understood it to be an AR/M platform.

 

[holdover]

I agree it was a little bit to dangerous to engage in this way, one pedestrian was wounded from LE shots .

 

[Acer-m14]

so if every round hit the car and a bystander got hit and almost a child .. guess there was some rounds that went in and out and kept going ..

 

[C3D]

Bystander shot and 4 year old almost killed riding in parents vehicle.

Was the sarcasm not apparent in my post?

 

[Saltwater60]

I didn’t waist time watching the video
OP says 3 our of 75 rounds hit target.
You are saying 100%
Which is it?

3 hit the person 100% hit the car.

 

[Acer-m14]

Bad guy stopped. No collateral damage. Everyone went home safe.

your only post i see here .. so yep the sarcasm was missed .. someone else got shot too .. not all went home safe .. one went to the ER ,.,

 

[C3D]

your only post i see here .. so yep it was missed .. someone else got shot too .. not all went home safe .. one went to the ER ,.,

Just spouting the standard lines used by the defenders of such actions.

 

[Acer-m14]

from what i seen in the vid .. there were a few LEO cars there .. why didn't a few of them roll pass and block the truck when it was on the side of the road .. cover front and back ..

no clue what cal the gun is .. best guess is 223 ... shit my 223 reloads blow holes in 1/4 inch steel plates .. if i shoot at at a car or truck .. you bet there zip in and out and keep going ..

if no one got injured or even close .. like the other car hit with a kid .. i say nice job ..

but a bystander and child in crossfire .. wrong call ..

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

In case I missed it, did anyone mention the 50 shots fired from handguns on the first stop? I'm not saying he should've been let go but it seemed like there was a shitload more other vehicles in the vicinity in that portion than the auto wepaon portion. I was more shocked by the first volley than the second.

 

[Uzi]

I've used a few different mp5's, and they are easy to control on full auto, however, dumping nearly a full magazine at a car on a public highway is questionable when spreading that automatic fire from a range of 0-90 degrees in one rotation very quickly. Burst fire is the proper way to use these smg's and pdw systems to maintain tight uniform groupings. A mag dump while shooting at a constant and quick angle change (expressway speeds) presents an extremely dangerous potential for any slightly off center deflected 9mm rounds to skim off any part of the vehicle and roadway with serious risks to any nearby traffic. I'm led to believe in this particular circumstance that the officer simply got lucky with his particular approach in which nothing went wrong. I also don't understand why a solo inactive "SWAT" officer is issued an mp5 while patrolling alone? The very specific training with the use of those exclusive mp5's chosen if I'm not mistaken was for the close quarter encounters while the TEAM is active in an event. He should be carrying something like an m4 variant as the primary for those types of situations, it's just better option anyways. There is only one other situation where an actual team of SWAT officers were able to collectively shoot hundreds of rounds with mp5's (I think) at an SUV to finally disable the driver and vehicle if I remember correctly. Overall it was more than effective, but In that instance, roadways were cleared and it was a residential area with prior preparation having already been implemented. I think the mp5 is better suited for its original use after breaching combined with other SWAT team officers, but it's also becoming largely outdated in all aspects. I think he just got lucky in more ways than one. It wasn't safe by any means.

 

[togmaster]

Overkill and it was reckless.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Since some think I have cops, I have no comment.

 

[Doc8404]

Since some think I have cops, I have no comment.

You have them? Tied up in your basement??
Is that legal?