BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
I missed you, man- hope all is well!
Tom King? not sure how I feel about this guy?
- Thread starter Jmac00
- Start date
I missed you, man- hope all is well!
I'll answer your question regarding what groups in NYS are effective....none.
The NYSRPA is an absolute waste,just like the NYS GOP. All fund raising sizzle, no steak like results.
SCOPE has become a dumpster fire of infighting and incompetence. What once showed promise now is racked with power grabs and poor management.
GOA NYS is the new kids on the block but once they began cozying up to the Tresmond Law Firm in Buffalo, I began to see the writing on the wall. Another organization, championed by lawyers who care more about positive PR for their firm than they do with results. Other than the show hosts on WYSL's 2nd Amendment Show championing them, no one has heard of NYS GOA.
Nationally, the only 2 organizations who actually work for your interests are GOA and the Second Amendment Foundation.
We do the same thing expecting different results. The burden of overturning Sullivan and the Safe Act rests with us. We need to mobilize our own voters and get out the vote. FUDDS will need to begin to participate in the advocacy process as well. Until that happens, we won't get anywhere.
Fuck all FUDD's
Celt
.450/400 Nitro Ex
He also said something along the lines that he didnt want to be a part of #3 because he was concerned about violence. Fuck TK, he is a FUDD eating cumholes table scraps.
Chicken Shoot
.45 acp
Ya know ... you're correct!!! What many fail to realize is, there are more gun owners than there are hunters!! People just like to own and shoot their favorite firearm at paper or other targets. Some like to target practice AND participate in local competitions. Some just like to plink away and not even really go for the competitive level. I don't know the actual numbers, but based on what I see as the president of a gun club, it's about 30% hunters and 70% target shooters.
Chicken Shoot
.45 acp
I miss everyone here man! We need to stop typing, whining and complaining and start doing!!
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
Or an insult to idiots.
The problem is those 2 national groups (GOA and 2a foundation) have done jack squat to advance and/or defend gun rights in NY. I'm sure they've done good work elsewhere and you should definitely join them if you agree with their agenda.
NYSRPA, for all of its faults, actually has put itself into some legal fights...some of which have provided positive results for NY gun owners (not as many results as we would all like, but still some).
I also think part of the problem is with the gun culture itself....which is just as prone to infighting and bickering as any other group (arguably more so). Some people here are complaining that NYSRPA, or other 2a groups, haven't gotten the ideal results with their activities. Well guess what: that's bound to happen on the political battlefield; one side usually loses while the other side wins. Just because NYSRPA, or any lobbyist group, hasn't achieved the exact goals that you desire doesn't mean said organization should be written off as useless.
The way I see it, people here have 2 viable options:
1) to work to change NYSRPA into a more effective and more ethical group.
or
2) to create a new group which does a better job of representing NY gun owners
Because just sitting around on an internet forum and talking about how Tom King is an idiot and this or that organization is no good does jack shit for our 2a rights. Until someone can show me a better group to join, my membership fees are going to the NYSRPA. And I'm fully aware of the gossip going around about Tom King's salary and possible misuse of funds (though I've seen very little in the way of factual sources). Maybe the guy truly is a total ass, I don't have enough knowledge of Tom or NYSRPA's inner workings to levy that kind of judgement. But I do know that until NY gets another 2a group up and running, I don't see who else can effectively represent us on the 2a legal fights.
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You asked a question. I answered it from a position of knowledge and understanding of history. You didn't want an answer. You wanted a platform to support an organization , of which you can't name a single pro gun legislative success, as the best option in NYS.
You claim you don't know Tom King and you don't have knowledge if his organization BUT you trust him enough to send him your money even after numerous people have chimed in here telling you EXACTLY what he's accomplished over the years. Where you spend your money is your business. Fact is if you performed a little research, you'd find you'd get more value for your money if you turned on your stove to 325* and once it's preheated throw your donations in the oven, close the door,and walk away for 15-20 minutes cooking time.
Bitching on internet forums I one man's distraction and another man's fact finding mission. What it is to you is up to you but recognize the fact you're participating of your own free will. You're part of the "bitching and moaning" process.
Lets address the 7 round in a magazine issue you provide as a NYSRPA legislative victory. It's still on the books even after the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals struck it down as Unconstitutional. People are still being arrested for it. The State of NY thumbed it's nose at an Appellate Court ruling and Tom King's organization is SILENT about it. Absolutely silent.
I've been a permit holder for 35 years. In those 35 years all I've come to expect from the NYSRPA and the NRA in general are appeals for donations.
In as far as the GOA and 2nd Amendment Foundation are concerned, they're the only two organizations actively challenging the Sullivan Act. Do some research then get back.to me about how active they are in NYS.
Asking an honest question is honorable. Doing so to stump for an organization that has a proven record of failure is laughable.
Tell Tom King I said hi the next time you write him a check that will pad his back pocket while the rest of us non FUDDS lose a few more rights under his expert leadership.
Doing the same thing, trusting in the same charlot, all.the while expecting different results is how we got to this point where by the end of the 2019 legislative session we will be lucky to have ANY rights left .
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BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence.
As I said it's a possibility. It looks beyond incompetence.
No one is being arrested simply for having 10 rounds loaded in their magazine. Some drug dealers got that charge added to a slew of other chargers, but the presiding judge dropped that particular charge dropped because that aspect of the SAFE Act has been deemed unenforceable. So the NYSRPA's challenge to the SAFE Act was a small victory in that regard. NYSRPA is also challenging NYC's ban on the transport of firearms outside owners' premises. I'd say that's a pretty important legal challenge...but for some reason, people on here choose to ignore that issue.
GOA challenging the Sullivan Act? You're an idiot if you think that has even a remote chance of overturning or changing NY's current pistol permitting regulations. People need to be realistic about what is achievable in NY's political environment. Doing away with all the pistol permitting is a fool's dream.
You can bitch and complain all you want about Tom King and the NYSRPA....it's not going to do anything to help NY 2a rights. Calling other people FUDDS or saying "Fuck Cuomo" or calling Tom King incompetent or corrupt does absolutely nothing to further gun rights in NY.
If you want to advance gun rights in NY, you need a political advocacy group to organize and represent gun owners on that front...and right now the NYSRPA is the only organization that is effectively doing that. For all the discontent and hatred I see being directed towards the NYSRPA's current stance, I would think there would be a few on here who would want to change the organization from within. Vote Tom King out and put someone else in charge.
Also, the argument I've seen a few on here use: that NYSRPA failed to stop the SAFE Act from passing and thus they are an ineffective organization...that's horrible logic. NY has a lot of anti-gun state senators and a lot of anti-gun voters. There is only so much an advocacy group to do to stop or hinder those legislative movements. There more effective method for dealing with them is challenging them in the courts, rather than magically stopping them in the legislative process. At the end of the day, its the voters, and the people they elect, who dictate what bills will and won't pass.
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..and there you have it.
Read this post carefully, then you'll know EXACTLY why we have continually lost ground with regards to your 2nd Amendment rights in NYS.
Other than the fact that Tom King and the NYSRPA have achieved absolutely ZERO during his tenure, who am I to question the poster, who OBVIOUSLY has an agenda, which is to defend the indefensible.
Other than the obvious, I'll let Upstate43's comments speak for themselves.
Like I said before, part of the problem with the gun rights movement in NY lies with the gun owners themselves...they bicker and attack one another for having slightly different views or perspectives. A house divided cannot stand, to borrow someone else's saying.
I'm not pro gun control. I don't like Cuomo, for more reasons than just his stance on gun rights. I don't know enough about Tom King to like or dislike him, but I'd be perfectly content if someone else were to take his place and re-energize the NYSRPA. I would eventually like to be able to own a standard capacity (more than 10 rounds) firearm, to include a semi-auto rifle. Maybe one day that will happen.
Overturning NY's pistol permitting regulation (which has widely been reviewed and deemed constitutional in NY and other states) is a futile and foolish endeavour. There are other legal issues more deserving of our attention. That said, I do acknowledge GOA's involvement in other issues, and I'm sure I'll get around to joining them at some point.
Taking a hostile stance towards everyone who disagrees with us on gun control is not going to win any battles for us; arguably that kind of attitude will play right into the media and gun control activists' hands. If you want to affect change, you have to do it via political organization. NYSRPA may not be perfect, but they have engaged in some political fights on our behalf. Until a more effective NY-focused organization comes along, I'll continue to pay my dues. Writing a derogatory post on a "Tom King sucks" thread does zero for our gun rights. Fighting to overturn overreaching regulation on firearms transport in NYC does quite a bit more by comparison.
Steal2B
.700 Nitro Express
It's weird to see a post ask a question, claiming no personal insight, and then lecture the forum. Just saying.
More than a few here know a bit about Tom King, and personally I am more than reluctant to support the NYSPRA until he is no longer controlling the show or influencing expenditures.
King endorsed Asterino after Tom's ring was kissed but screwed Rob when he failed to wake up his Fudd brigade and King even distanced himself from the 2014 Albany protesters, Asterino, Trump, SCOPE and even members of this forum referring to the pro2A showing as nutcases to a news reporter.
More than once he has talked at a pro 2A event and chastised attendees for being members of the NRA (he was on the damn board) or SCOPE instead of sending monies to him. It's ironic how members of this forum are today being lectured about in fighting between pro2A groups.
I wish Tom King could be monetized where he could be purchased for what he actually did and sold for what he has taken personal credit. He oft claims personal credit for the toil of earlier SCOPE activity, volunteers, NRA / ILA mailings / ads / spending , Mike Long, outside council, lobbyists, pro 2A candidates representing vocal constituents and dumb luck.
The NYSPRA and SCOPE are both a needed organization in this god foresaken state and both would be far better served without Tom King in the leadership or fiduciary roles. It is far past the time for Tom King to step down, even if only for accountibilty.
More than a few here know a bit about Tom King, and personally I am more than reluctant to support the NYSPRA until he is no longer controlling the show or influencing expenditures.
King endorsed Asterino after Tom's ring was kissed but screwed Rob when he failed to wake up his Fudd brigade and King even distanced himself from the 2014 Albany protesters, Asterino, Trump, SCOPE and even members of this forum referring to the pro2A showing as nutcases to a news reporter.
More than once he has talked at a pro 2A event and chastised attendees for being members of the NRA (he was on the damn board) or SCOPE instead of sending monies to him. It's ironic how members of this forum are today being lectured about in fighting between pro2A groups.
I wish Tom King could be monetized where he could be purchased for what he actually did and sold for what he has taken personal credit. He oft claims personal credit for the toil of earlier SCOPE activity, volunteers, NRA / ILA mailings / ads / spending , Mike Long, outside council, lobbyists, pro 2A candidates representing vocal constituents and dumb luck.
The NYSPRA and SCOPE are both a needed organization in this god foresaken state and both would be far better served without Tom King in the leadership or fiduciary roles. It is far past the time for Tom King to step down, even if only for accountibilty.
Attachments
I'm not sure what that document is supposed to demonstrate.
Anyways, if I read that last comment (in bold) correctly, I think you and I are more closely aligned then either of us expected to be. We need political organizations to work on our behalf. Tom King may in fact be the wrong person to lead the NYSRPA...if that is the case, people should join the NYSRPA and vote him out of office. Or if you're too sick and tired of NYSRPA's "failings," fine. To each his own. But at the very least you should join another organization that is actually doing something to represent NY gun owners.
Simply pointing fingers at people and organizations who haven't fulfilled your expectations does nothing to help your cause. If people are truly disillusioned with the current state of gun rights advocacy in this state (and it sounds like more than few on here are), they need to work to fix the problem....people who bitch and complain but don't actually put their support into the cause aren't helping to improve the situation.
I see much of the same problem in this state's hunting community. A lot of people complain about over-regulation or a lack of sympathy from the state legislature. And yet when the question comes up of how many of these disillusioned hunters are politically active and/or involved with a conservation club/group, the response is usually crickets.
Catskillkid
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Here's a question: is Tom King president of NYSRPA for Life? How do we go about changing leadership in that organization. I've been a Lifetime member of NYSRPA since before unSAFE and no where have I ever been asked to vote for Board of Directors or for organization leadership.
So how do we go about changing the leadership structure?
Exactly....
You can't because elections for NYSRPA office are non-existent.
Appointments.
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
Who are they appointed by?
Legit question, I don't know anything about their structure.
Legit question, I don't know anything about their structure.
MuttCat
.223 Rem
I do not want a glossy magazine or reports about junior shooting events or editorial comment about things I know. If and when Tom King is gone I will reconsider my support of NYSRPA. But if altar boy FUAC can make infanticide legal, what are the odds that the NYSRPA will prevail in overturning the Safe Act? I'm not so sure....not sure where I read it, but Lucifer was an angel Mr. Altar Boy.
I respect the opinions posted above and hope for the best.
I respect the opinions posted above and hope for the best.
Deplorable Me
.700 Nitro Express
"Fence" is that like a "wall" but less significant?
Deplorable Me
.700 Nitro Express
Tom King: Last years activities.
More Dishonesty From NYSRPA and Tom King?
More Dishonesty From NYSRPA and Tom King?