Trump did not betray the Kurds

[livingston]

Trump did not betray the Kurds
The near consensus view of President Donald Trump’s decision to remove US special forces from the Syrian border with Turkey is that Trump is enabling a Turkish invasion and double crossing the Syrian Kurds who have fought with the Americans for five years against ISIS. Trump’s move, the thinking goes, harms US credibility and undermines US power in the region and throughout the world.

There are several problems with this narrative. The first is that it assumes that until this week, the US had power and influence in Syria when in fact, by design, the US went to great lengths to limit its ability to influence events in Syria.


The Kurds in Iraq are far more capable of defending themselves than the Kurds of Syria. Taking on the defense of Syria’s Kurds would commit the US to an open-ended presence in Syria and justify Turkish antagonism. America’s interests would not be advanced. They would be harmed, particularly in light of the YPG’s selling trait for Obama – its warm ties to Assad and Iran’s Revolutionary Guard Corps.

The hard truth is that the fifty US soldiers along the Syrian-Turkish border were a fake trip wire. Neither Trump nor the US military had any intention of sacrificing US forces to either block a Turkish invasion of Syria or foment deeper US involvement in the event of a Turkish invasion.

Apparently in the course of his phone call with Trump on Sunday, Erdogan called Trump’s bluff. Trump’s announcement following the call made clear that the US would not sacrifice its soldiers to stop Erdogan’s planned invasion of the border zone.

But Trump also made clear that the US did not support the Turkish move. In subsequent statements, Trump repeatedly pledged to destroy the Turkish economy if Turkey commits atrocities against the Kurds.

 

[spat]

I would like to see Trump up the ante on his "trolling the left" game.

They appear to be willing to strongly oppose anything he does. So, next time a case like this comes up, what he should do is announce that he is sending more troops to Syria. Then give the left a couple weeks to go nuts saying how terrible it is and how we should be pulling out. Then announce "just kidding, I was pulling the troops out all the time, I just wanted to get you guys on board".

It would be epic.

Would they suddenly condemn the very actions they just spend a week clamoring for ?

Would they be forced to say Trump is doing a good thing ?

The mental whiplash required would surely red pill a bunch of people every time, and that's always a good thing.

 

[kev74]

I would like to see Trump up the ante on his "trolling the left" game.

They appear to be willing to strongly oppose anything he does. So, next time a case like this comes up, what he should do is announce that he is sending more troops to Syria. Then give the left a couple weeks to go nuts saying how terrible it is and how we should be pulling out. Then announce "just kidding, I was pulling the troops out all the time, I just wanted to get you guys on board".

It would be epic.

Would they suddenly condemn the very actions they just spend a week clamoring for ?

Would they be forced to say Trump is doing a good thing ?

The mental whiplash required would surely red pill a bunch of people every time, and that's always a good thing.

Unfortunately, the left has no integrity. They have no problem flip-flopping, or lying outright as it suits them.

 

[GOPerfect]

I do not care if he does pull out and leave the Kurds to their own devices.

As for the ISIS prisoners, shoot them all. Then we really have no reason to be there.

 

[Jmac00]

these people have been fighting each other for 1400 years, it's not going to stop just because the U.S. is there or not.

I think Pres. Trump has done the right thing.

 

[Acer-m14]

I do not care if he does pull out and leave the Kurds to their own devices.

As for the ISIS prisoners, shoot them all. Then we really have no reason to be there.

they should have shot them months or yrs ago ..

 

[ECU Pirates]

these people have been fighting each other for 1400 years, it's not going to stop just because the U.S. is there or not.

I think Pres. Trump has done the right thing.

How is an abrupt withdrawal and leaving those who did the heavy lifting for years when it comes to fighting isis the right thing? Leaving is not wrong. Leaving after a phone call is.

 

[Mosinitis]

Crocodile tears? Hillary Clinton tweets that ‘sickening horror’ in Syria is ‘one man’s fault’ and gets reminded of her deeds

 

[livingston]

they should have shot them months or yrs ago ..

How do we know that did not happen within hours after our advisors left. .. We don't have a news media we can trust anymore .

 

[BDinPutnam]

All reports are that these folks, having lost upwards of 11,000 troops fighting ISIS for us, are now preparing to cut a deal with Syria and Russia.

Meanwhile Turkey is extending their incursion further than originally stated, and lots of formerly jailed ISIS fighters are now running free.

Also, those American troops are not "coming home" they're redeploying elsewhere in the region.

Great.
Fucking.
Job.

PS apparently the Turks are "accidentally" shelling US forces as well.

Exclusive: Turkey attacks US special forces in Syria, apparently by mistake

 

[Mr. terzmo]

ISIS gone wild ?? Maybe the Trumpster is sending a message to Western Europe that they better get more involved with ISSIS and Iran because the bad guys can walk to them, they have to swim to get to US

 

[BDinPutnam]

So there are no Americans, and no compelling American interests, outside CONUS.

Got it.

You wonder why people are fed up with both the left and the right?

 

[Mr. terzmo]

So there are no Americans, and no compelling American interests, outside CONUS.

Got it.

You wonder why people are fed up with both the left and the right?

business and trade are the interests..no more killing our troops for dollars and cents for ungrateful nations that burn our Flag

 

[Mosinitis]

We and the Kurds defeated ISIS in Syria, while the Russians were putzing around above in hot air baloons.

 

[BDinPutnam]

business and trade are the interests..no more killing our troops for dollars and cents for ungrateful nations that burn our Flag

This is incoherent. You think no Americans live abroad and do business and trade- or otherwise, and/or the US is not a primary filthy target for ISIS?

What "ungrateful nation" that "burn our Flag" are you referring to? The Kurds? They have no nation. They threw 10,000 fighters into the grave in partnership with us against ISIS. I dont know that I am aware of any Kurds burning US flags- but I can easily envision it in the near future.

I have no illusions about the history and complexity of these peoples and the region but who in their right mind, anywhere, at any time, under any circumstances, would want to be our partners and allies, soaking blood and treasure into the ground on our behalf, at this point?

I recall at least one similar situation in the not too distant past, and it didnt turn out well for us.

Afghanistan circa 1989.

Thought exercise- what happens when Turkey runs too far west and south and runs into Russian troops? They are a NATO ally.

 

[Mr. terzmo]

This is incoherent. You think no Americans live abroad and do business and trade- or otherwise, and/or the US is not a primary filthy target for ISIS?

What "ungrateful nation" that "burn our Flag" are you referring to? The Kurds? They have no nation. They threw 10,000 fighters into the grave in partnership with us against ISIS. I dont know that I am aware of any Kurds burning US flags- but I can easily envision it in the near future.

I have no illusions about the history and complexity of these peoples and the region but who in their right mind, anywhere, at any time, under any circumstances, would want to be our partners and allies, soaking blood and treasure into the ground on our behalf, at this point?

I recall at least one similar situation in the not too distant past, and it didnt turn out well for us.

Afghanistan circa 1989.

Thought exercise- what happens when Turkey runs too far west and south and runs into Russian troops? They are a NATO ally.

Your first sentence is totally incoherent and I don't debate stupid because one can't fix stupid.

 

[holdover]

I recall Trump campaigning on the promise to bring the troops home get them out of those endless wars. We never declared war on syria.and we have no more business there than they have being here

 

[Truebeliever]

I really don’t know enough on this subject but I watched an interview with deputy Sec explaining the administration view.

The phone call with Turkey might not have gone as well as they profess . Turkey may have said we are going in, and we don’t care what you say. The US didn’t think it’s worth the confrontation and didn’t want the “a” teams stationed there to be human shields. So we pulled out.

The administration paints it as “ I wanted to pull out” rather than seem weak

 

[holdover]

Well not really, they were scheduled to leave last April. They announced it in January. The Turds had plenty of time to withdraw. WTF, they are in Syria fighting against The Syrian government , the only thing stopping them from being run over was the US safe havens. And they have been fucking with the Turks for years trying to establish a larger Kurdish homeland there.

Yep, the US fucked them ( Whats new?) But the US had no business there whatsoever in the first place. That was an illegal Obama Hillary operation. We were never there to kill terrorists, we were there to overthrow Assad.

And now we lose credibility around the world because Trump did the right thing and left. It wasn't his mess.

And Ill say this , Hes the only president in the last 30 years that didn't jump into a war even though he was heavily pressured to do it.

 

[Mosinitis]

It took only a few years to rewrite history. How quickly people forget, as if this happened 800 years ago in Mongolia. Nothing was done about ISIS until Russian Air Force started bombing the crap out of them in Syria. Obama administration was waiting for ISIS to defeat Assad. Syrian Army with the support of Russian air force and participation of Russian special forces liberated most of the Syrian territory. We were late to the party and most of our anti-ISIS effort was in Iraq.

 

[Jmac00]

How is an abrupt withdrawal and leaving those who did the heavy lifting for years when it comes to fighting isis the right thing? Leaving is not wrong. Leaving after a phone call is.

I believe Pres. Trumps phone call with Erdogan was a 'heads up'. Turkey called to say "we are going to invade Syria whether the U.S. is there or not". With the small forces we had in the region, there was no point in getting the U.S. involved in a protracted war that could last years.

Im tired of Europe and the Middle East using the U.S. as their private police force. Fuck them. If the Syrian Kurds need help, they have an entire region of Iraqi Kurds to assist.

 

[ECU Pirates]

I believe Pres. Trumps phone call with Erdogan was a 'heads up'. Turkey called to say "we are going to invade Syria whether the U.S. is there or not". With the small forces we had in the region, there was no point in getting the U.S. involved in a protracted war that could last years.

Im tired of Europe and the Middle East using the U.S. as their private police force. Fuck them. If the Syrian Kurds need help, they have an entire region of Iraqi Kurds to assist.

Maybe if we didn’t stick our noses everywhere people wouldn’t expect our help and we wouldn’t need to withdraw because we never would have been there. Like I said a withdrawal is not the wrong move, it’s the way we did it. Thinking Iraqi Kurds can help Syrians is ridiculous. Help them how? Throwing rocks maybe?

 

[BDinPutnam]

Maybe if we didn’t stick our noses everywhere people wouldn’t expect our help and we wouldn’t need to withdraw because we never would have been there. Like I said a withdrawal is not the wrong move, it’s the way we did it. Thinking Iraqi Kurds can help Syrians is ridiculous. Help them how? Throwing rocks maybe?

Well they kicked the shit out of ISIS on the ground with our help.

 

[ECU Pirates]

Well they kicked the shit out of ISIS on the ground with our help.

And now they are joining our other enemies and I don’t blame them.