Trumps dreams of dictatorship

[stokes]

Ok, you win. We got 2 more years to ramble on about Trump etc before the election, its gonna get crazy around here. We've gotten way off topic here, if you guys think the citizens can stand against the military, I'll be there.....but we're all gonna die.
Back on the original topic, I saw a snippet somewhere that Trump is hosting another dinner at Mar a Lago with "questionable" guests like the Kanye West thing. Gonna go see what thats about, if anything. Probably just a case of the assholes picking apart everything he does these days.

 

[stokes]

Nothing to that story. He had some broad they are claiming is a "conspiracy theorist", Liz Crokin or some such. Got more faith in what ever they call conspiracy theory than anything they have to say these days.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

I am astonished anyone can have this attitude after our experience in Afghanistan. We lost to a determined band of goat fuckers. To spat's point, the day the m-1 tanks roll down US streets is the day the 200 million privately owned guns come into play.

For real. People also seem to forget that this is a BIG country. We had a hard enough time controlling an area not much larger than a few states.

It would be very hard if not impossible, even for our military, to maintain control over a country the size of ours. The military simply isn't big enough. They might be able to get a lock down on major cities, but not the rural areas or all that "fly over country". Our population is armed. Something like 12 million armed Americans (just hunters).

There is no professional army that size. Even considering that 12million would mostly consist of old, out of shape, no military experience, Etc., Etc. People, there would still be more capable armed citizens than any standing army. You think about all the scary vulnerabilities in our infrastructure that have been talked about here on this forum and others.
Not to mention the likelyhood that the US military would fracture along loyalty lines.
It wouldn't likely be a steamroller victory of the US military over armed citizens. It would likely be a very protracted, bloody, hot mess.

 

[spat]

Ok, you win. We got 2 more years to ramble on about Trump etc before the election, its gonna get crazy around here. We've gotten way off topic here, if you guys think the citizens can stand against the military, I'll be there.....but we're all gonna die.
Back on the original topic, I saw a snippet somewhere that Trump is hosting another dinner at Mar a Lago with "questionable" guests like the Kanye West thing. Gonna go see what thats about, if anything. Probably just a case of the assholes picking apart everything he does these days.

The citizens can't stand against the military.

That's not the point. If you think that's how you should fight that war you are missing the point entirely.

You don't fight the military at all if you can avoid it.

The military are not the enemy. It's the government that is the enemy if it becomes tyrannical. You fight them and avoid the military as best as possible.

And that works.

You start off with 3 or 4% of the populace willing to fight. Then the government is forced to crack down, and then it's 5 or 10%. Then they have to crack down harder and now it's 20%.

Eventually they have to crack down hard enough that they lose too much popular support to hold power, even with draconian measures and blatant cheating.

That is how you win an insurrection, not by fighting against tanks and planes.

 

[Grimscale]

Not to mention the likelyhood that the US military would fracture along loyalty lines.

I think this should be mentioned. Quite loudly, and in the ears of potential tyrants.

The military is all volunteer-based. People who have families. People who, for now, firmly believed in the Constitution and the ideas it protected.

People who would not accept being ordered to point their guns at their own families and friends.

And when they leave that military, knowing that the officers would try to order the next person to do what they rejected, they will likely bring a lot of that equipment with them.

 

[beebee]

yeah, wrong.. Throughout the entirety of human history, right up to today, military personnel have been ordered to and complied when told to harass,round up, imprison, torture, murder or brutally massacre their fellow countrymen..

" I was simply doing my duty"... "Just following orders".. "I followed my commanders instructions".

The US military can and will kill unarmed civilians if ordered to , just as every military throughout the history of the world has done.. Yes they do have loved ones, and thats the main reason they WILL follow any order no matter how tyrannical and brutal it is.. They want to go home to them, and know they won't if they disobey orders.. Same with any police force anywhere.. They always have, always will oppress or kill their fellow citizens when ordered to do so.. Anyone in the modern age that seriously thinks the military or police will side with the citizenry in a SHTF scenario is deluded..
I will accept the notion that there will be some "conscientious objectors" that will refuse to follow tyrannical orders, but they will quickly be made examples of, and the vast majority will fall in line in short order...
Please do not pin your hopes on any government entity coming to your aid in real SHTF situation..

 

[Acer-m14]

The US military can and will kill unarmed civilians if ordered to

can you name any US Civilians the US military killed with the Current Military .. (so you cant use wounded knee as a example )

 

[beebee]

Victims​

Memorial to Jeffrey Miller, taken from approximately the same perspective as John Filo's 1970 photograph, as it appeared in 2007.

Killed (and approximate distance from the National Guard):

• Jeffrey Glenn Miller; 265 ft (81 m) shot through the mouth; killed instantly.
• Allison B. Krause; 343 ft (105 m) fatal left chest wound; dead on arrival.
• William Knox Schroeder; 382 ft (116 m) fatal chest wound; died almost an hour later in a local hospital while undergoing surgery. He was a member of the campus ROTC battalion.
• Sandra Lee Scheuer; 390 ft (120 m) fatal neck wound; died a few minutes later from loss of blood.

Wounded (and approximate distance from the National Guard):

• Joseph Lewis, Jr.; 71 ft (22 m); hit twice; once in his right abdomen and once in his lower left leg.
• John R. Cleary; 110 ft (34 m); upper left chest wound.
• Thomas Mark Grace; 225 ft (69 m); hit in his left ankle.
• Alan Michael Canfora; 225 ft (69 m); hit in his right wrist.[49]
• Dean R. Kahler; 300 ft (91 m); back wound fracturing the vertebrae; permanently paralyzed from the chest down.
• Douglas Alan Wrentmore; 329 ft (100 m); hit in his right knee.
• James Dennis Russell; 375 ft (114 m); hit in his right thigh from a bullet and grazed on his right forehead by either a bullet or birdshot; both wounds minor (wounded near the Memorial Gymnasium, away from most of the other students).
• Robert Follis Stamps; 495 ft (151 m); hit in his right buttock.
• Donald Scott MacKenzie; 750 ft (230 m); neck wound.

Of those shot, none was closer than 71 feet (22 m) to the guardsmen. Of those killed, the nearest (Miller) was 265 feet (81 m) away, and their average distance from the guardsmen was 345 feet (105 m). The victim furthest from the Guard was 750 feet (230 m) away.[50]

also do a little research on Ruby Ridge, and all the unwarranted killings of unarmed people by cops the last several years.. Government agencies are not your friend. They listen to their superiors ,NOT their fellow citizens...

I didn't say its an ever day occurrence.. Its not of course... However if you REALLY think that any government entity will not kill civilians if told to by superiors, you are really naive'....bob

 

[spat]

Victims​

Memorial to Jeffrey Miller, taken from approximately the same perspective as John Filo's 1970 photograph, as it appeared in 2007.

Killed (and approximate distance from the National Guard):

• Jeffrey Glenn Miller; 265 ft (81 m) shot through the mouth; killed instantly.
• Allison B. Krause; 343 ft (105 m) fatal left chest wound; dead on arrival.
• William Knox Schroeder; 382 ft (116 m) fatal chest wound; died almost an hour later in a local hospital while undergoing surgery. He was a member of the campus ROTC battalion.
• Sandra Lee Scheuer; 390 ft (120 m) fatal neck wound; died a few minutes later from loss of blood.

Wounded (and approximate distance from the National Guard):

• Joseph Lewis, Jr.; 71 ft (22 m); hit twice; once in his right abdomen and once in his lower left leg.
• John R. Cleary; 110 ft (34 m); upper left chest wound.
• Thomas Mark Grace; 225 ft (69 m); hit in his left ankle.
• Alan Michael Canfora; 225 ft (69 m); hit in his right wrist.[49]
• Dean R. Kahler; 300 ft (91 m); back wound fracturing the vertebrae; permanently paralyzed from the chest down.
• Douglas Alan Wrentmore; 329 ft (100 m); hit in his right knee.
• James Dennis Russell; 375 ft (114 m); hit in his right thigh from a bullet and grazed on his right forehead by either a bullet or birdshot; both wounds minor (wounded near the Memorial Gymnasium, away from most of the other students).
• Robert Follis Stamps; 495 ft (151 m); hit in his right buttock.
• Donald Scott MacKenzie; 750 ft (230 m); neck wound.

Of those shot, none was closer than 71 feet (22 m) to the guardsmen. Of those killed, the nearest (Miller) was 265 feet (81 m) away, and their average distance from the guardsmen was 345 feet (105 m). The victim furthest from the Guard was 750 feet (230 m) away.[50]

also do a little research on Ruby Ridge, and all the unwarranted killings of unarmed people by cops the last several years.. Government agencies are not your friend. They listen to their superiors ,NOT their fellow citizens...

I didn't say its an ever day occurrence.. Its not of course... However if you REALLY think that any government entity will not kill civilians if told to by superiors, you are really naive'....bob

The government will always be able to find people to fill the uniforms who will follow any order they receive.

But that isn't to say they all will.

The NAZIs started out just murdering people as they were found.

But that turned out to be a problem, because the average soldier would not be able to continue doing that.

That's the whole reason the camps were developed. You can't get an average soldier to shoot innocent women and children in the back of the head day in and day out.

But you can get average soldiers to load innocent people on to cattle cars and ship them off where you have a few psychopathic soldiers who will happily murder then industrially.

Just like if you had to slaughter your own livestock there'd be a lot more vegetarians out there today.


They have things far more compartmentalized today.

Many of the cops who would refuse a general order to confiscate guns have left, the ones who haven't are just trying to stick around a few more years to lock in a pension.

The rest will happily say "some guy in a black robe said it's OK. It's not my place to question. You can't have everybody deciding what laws they will enforce it would be anarchy.

And they don't even *need* a majority to do it.

They just need to find a dozen guys who would murder their own mother if ordered and send them. Then when someone resists, all the "good cops" will absolutely drop what they're doing to help because "shots fired".