Trunk gun with no trunk

[wtb12ga]

Super basic question: my daily driver is a hatchback. Can anyone offer advice, solutions or specific products for discreet and secure storage that would be acceptable for leaving unattended in the day when I am in town shopping, working, and so on?

Any thoughts on the Mossberg Shockwave for this purpose?

 

[Darth]

 

[wtb12ga]

Is that supposed to mean the premise is a terrible idea?

Or just a reaction to driving a hatchback generally.

 

[Darth]

Is that supposed to mean the premise is a terrible idea?

Or just a reaction to driving a hatchback generally.

Nit of both, but I jest.

I'm assuming the gun is going to be a defensive gun, but I just want to make sure you understand the (absurd) laws regarding loaded guns in vehicles in NY...

 

[fnfalguy]

Two options potentially. I have no clue about the legality of keeping them loading. Only suggestions on securing them.

 

[wtb12ga]

Nit of both, but I jest.

I'm assuming the gun is going to be a defensive gun, but I just want to make sure you understand the (absurd) laws regarding loaded guns in vehicles in NY...

Of course, ECL 11-0931(2). But my understanding is that you can have shells in a box and the side-saddle. We do use cars to take our guns and ammo to the field and range.

I would want it to be available defensively although that is sort of secondary. Also for rabid wildlife that we get around here, injured roadkill (with a call to DEC if necessary), whatever situation it is called for where I would wish I had it on hand.

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

Someone can correct me but I believe you cannot transport loaded weapons of any kind unless the have a concealed carry. You didn't specify in the original post.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Someone can correct me but I believe you cannot transport loaded weapons of any kind unless the have a concealed carry. You didn't specify in the original post.

Fed law and most state laws say you can not have a loaded rifle or shotgun in a motor vehicle. (Exemptions are made for boats during duck seasons). This includes 4 wheelers etc etc.

That is what makes my ar pistol so great. 14.5 inch barrel. Shockwave brace, an aimpot micro, and two coupled 30 round mags onboard. All loaded and ready for any upcoming events. Talk about ready to rumble. (So maybe a pair of 10s is a better idea in new yorkistan. But you get my drift. )

Stupid ATF!

This is what i run:

MK I Redi-Mag

I have the original series. I like how it drops the mag better. The new verion works great too i just prefer the original.

Only draw back is the slight weigh increase. I took it off my lightweight build cause it added “ unnecessary ” weight.

 

[pmcjuryny]

Fed law and most state laws say you can not have a loaded rifle or shotgun in a motor vehicle. (Exemptions are made for boats during duck seasons). This includes 4 wheelers etc etc.

That is what makes my ar pistol so great. 14.5 inch barrel. Shockwave brace, an aimpot micro, and two coupled 30 round mags onboard. All loaded and ready for any upcoming events. Talk about ready to rumble. (So maybe a pair of 10s is a better idea in new yorkistan. But you get my drift. )

Stupid ATF!

This is what i run:

MK I Redi-Mag

I have the original series. I like how it drops the mag better. The new verion works great too i just prefer the original.

Only draw back is the slight weigh increase. I took it off my lightweight build cause it added “ unnecessary ” weight.

Any idea how this would work so ce the Shockwave isn't a shotgun or rifle, but also not a pistol.

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[GOYABEAN]

Any idea how this would work so ce the Shockwave isn't a shotgun or rifle, but also not a pistol.

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But it still go's bang in theory

 

[ArmedCorgi]

That is what makes my ar pistol so great. 14.5 inch barrel. Shockwave brace, an aimpot micro, and two coupled 30 round mags onboard. All loaded and ready for any upcoming events. Talk about ready to rumble. (So maybe a pair of 10s is a better idea in new yorkistan. But you get my drift. )

Shameless plug @Bullet Guy, you should be ashamed of yourself, lol.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Any idea how this would work so ce the Shockwave isn't a shotgun or rifle, but also not a pistol.

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Get an aow 12 gauge. NYS wants them on your pistol permit. Easy to articulate.

I need to read the law again with your question in mind. I kinda remember it says rifle and shotgun. Verify that. If it says rifle and shotgun then the other stuff should be gtg.

Just for fun. NYS has a law that defines a loaded gun as one that could be loaded! How is that! So if you got mags and ammo then they can consider that a loaded gun. Ha ha ha.

Does “your” heads hurt yet?

 

[wtb12ga]

This got derailed quick. I never said anything about being loaded and this is a long guns forum. It takes about as long to load a shell from a sidesaddle as to pop the hatch much less unlock any device.

The question is about responsible/secure storage of an UNLOADED shotgun in a car.

There are different definitions of “loaded” in the penal law and the ECL. For criminal purposes a gun is considered loaded if ammunition is on hand, for storage in a motor vehicle it can’t be loaded in the chamber or magazine.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

for storage in a motor vehicle it can’t be loaded in the chamber or magazine.

Would you mind citing the source for the above sentence. I do not remember seeing that. It could prove useful.

The magazine part is what i am after. It was a big discussion i had with the local poh poh about that and we could never find written proof if loaded mags constitued a loaded firearm.

Thx

 

[wtb12ga]

Would you mind citing the source for the above sentence. I do not remember seeing that. It could prove useful.

The magazine part is what i am after. It was a big discussion i had with the local poh poh about that and we could never find written proof if loaded mags constitued a loaded firearm.

Thx

New York Consolidated Laws, Environmental Conservation Law - ENV § 11-0931 | FindLaw

Environmental Conservation Law 11-0931(2):
“No crossbow or firearm except a pistol or revolver shall be carried or possessed in or on a motor vehicle unless it is uncocked, for a crossbow or unloaded, for a firearm in both the chamber and the magazine,”

Whether detached magazines have to be unloaded or not is a separate question. I would think that a firearm with a detached magazine is “unloaded in magazine,” but either way, I’m talking about a pump shotgun with a tube mag that would have to be unloaded so this is a moot point.

This is all very interesting but I really have no further insight on my actual question than I started with.

 

[Steal2B]

This got derailed quick. I never said anything about being loaded and this is a long guns forum. It takes about as long to load a shell from a sidesaddle as to pop the hatch much less unlock any device.

The question is about responsible/secure storage of an UNLOADED shotgun in a car.

There are different definitions of “loaded” in the penal law and the ECL. For criminal purposes a gun is considered loaded if ammunition is on hand, for storage in a motor vehicle it can’t be loaded in the chamber or magazine.

I would bet there are Forum members who could provide some insights but your initial question had the scent of troll and safely securing valuables (e.g. you make it much easier to steal the locked car than accessing the valuables) in a hatchback is uniquely limited to your specific car which was not mentioned. Your options are limited and under rear seat options are often the only choice. Fnfalguy showed two often recommended approaches that may or may not be viable for your car. Instead of looking for storing a yet to be decided long gun securely in your hatchback, it may be more prudent to consider a SUV or truck in your future which has more options available. Otherwise look at a Ruger PC Carbine which can break down to securely store easier and it may be better suited for your described needs.

As for a long gun stored in a hatchback for self defense ... have you thought that through? Deploying it for self-defense isn't practical unless it's illegally loaded and in arms reach and even then a long gun is hard to wield inside a vehicle. It is a stretch to imagine a need to deploy it for defense outside the vehicle short of a SHTF Zombie apocalypse. Bottom line, this is NY and when you get to your car you have a chance to flee, standing there retrieving your secured long gun, loading your gun, and running back into battle is not only untimely, it is a felony waiting to happen since you live in NY AND there is a viable option to flee. If you want a tool for timely self defense outside of your home in NY I suggest you get your permit and include a handgun with some training in your defense strategy.

Have Gun, Will Travel: Choosing and Securing a Trunk Gun

Ruger® PC Carbine™ * Autoloading Rifle Models

 

[pmcjuryny]

New York Consolidated Laws, Environmental Conservation Law - ENV § 11-0931 | FindLaw

Environmental Conservation Law 11-0931(2):
“No crossbow or firearm except a pistol or revolver shall be carried or possessed in or on a motor vehicle unless it is uncocked, for a crossbow or unloaded, for a firearm in both the chamber and the magazine,”

Whether detached magazines have to be unloaded or not is a separate question. I would think that a firearm with a detached magazine is “unloaded in magazine,” but either way, I’m talking about a pump shotgun with a tube mag that would have to be unloaded so this is a moot point.

This is all very interesting but I really have no further insight on my actual question than I started with.

That is an interesting little bit of law, but it gets even more interesting if you replace "firearm" with the Nys definition of "firearm".

“Firearm” means (a) any pistol or revolver;  or (b) a shotgun having one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length;  or (c) a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length;  or (d) any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise if such weapon as altered, modified, or otherwise has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches;  or (e) an assault weapon.

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[freddy]

Of course the shockwave is not a shotgun...

12. "Shotgun" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade,
and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned
and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun
shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a
single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.​

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Super basic question: my daily driver is a hatchback. Can anyone offer advice, solutions or specific products for discreet and secure storage that would be acceptable for leaving unattended in the day when I am in town shopping, working, and so on?

Any thoughts on the Mossberg Shockwave for this purpose?

An answer to your original question......

A locked aluminum case with pad locks is what i do to keep cops out.

I have a trunk that locks. No keyFOB to open it. No lever to pull to open it. I use this.

Again. For you, a locked aluminum case with a big sticker that says “lighting set 1” on it. A pad lock and a tie dye blanket to cover it will work just fine.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

New York Consolidated Laws, Environmental Conservation Law - ENV § 11-0931 | FindLaw

Environmental Conservation Law 11-0931(2):

Thx. I was looking more for a non econ law. More for a regualr cop interaction law. I wont be interacting with the encon guys as often as the regular poh poh.

 

[wtb12ga]

Thx. I was looking more for a non econ law. More for a regualr cop interaction law. I wont be interacting with the encon guys as often as the regular poh poh.

As far as I know, this is the only law that specifically bans loaded long guns in vehicles in NY (with rare exceptions). Loaded pistols are allowed but of course only pursuant to a carry permit. Just because it’s codified under ECL doesn’t mean that peace officers who are not ECOs don’t enforce it when they come across it.

I would caution others that the same word can and does have very different definitions in different places under New York statutes. Specifically I don’t believe the penal law firearm definition applies here in the ECL.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

As far as I know, this is the only law that specifically bans loaded long guns in vehicles in NY (with rare exceptions). Loaded pistols are allowed but of course only pursuant to a carry permit. Just because it’s codified under ECL doesn’t mean that peace officers who are not ECOs don’t enforce it when they come across it.

I would caution others that the same word can and does have very different definitions in different places under New York statutes. Specifically I don’t believe the penal law firearm definition applies here in the ECL.

See “you” made me look it up!

I AM ON VACATION! This is WORK!

Penal code 265. New York Consolidated Laws, Penal Law - PEN § 265.00 | FindLaw

P

 

[wtb12ga]

See “you” made me look it up!

I AM ON VACATION! This is WORK!

Penal code 265. New York Consolidated Laws, Penal Law - PEN § 265.00 | FindLaw

View attachment 29316 View attachment 29317 P

Right, and what did I say about definitions, and what does it say at the beginning of that definitions section? “As used in this article and in article four hundred, the following terms shall mean...”

These definitions don’t apply to the environmental conservation law.

Notably though, the ECL violation on loaded firearms (loaded in magazine or chamber) exempts pistols. ECL violation for loaded firearm (not a pistol) or crossbow in a vehicle, without more, is a misdemeanor.

Whereas a loaded pistol (which just means you have ammo with the firearm) anywhere in the state without a permit for valid for that location is a felony with a minimum 3.5 year prison sentence under the penal law.

So when it comes to “loaded” pistols... Carrying with a target permit? 3.5 years minimum. Stopping to eat in NYC with an upstate permit? 3.5 years minimum. Visiting Binghamton with a Pennsylvania permit? 3.5 years minimum. And lose all your guns forever.