Two Gun Owners Pulled Over In NJ?

[GOYABEAN]

Saw this story on chasing news couldn't find video An NFL Player and a Lesbian Were Both Pulled Over in New Jersey: Guess Which One Went to Jail for Their (Legal) Gun? Not sure if posted before if so Mods please delete

 

[Phauxtoe]

Well it's way sexier to have a lesbian in jail but I don't know if that's what happened

 

[Airborneguy]

Their treatment was exactly the same. Anyone with a brain knows that the NFL'er was able to make bond and the lesbian wasn't. So right off the bat, the article is playing typical games.

Two other obvious points:

1) if she "shares" a home with her GF, then she lives in NJ. The expired PA license makes perfect sense: she doesn't live in PA anymore. So therefore, she wasn't carrying a legal firearm, from any state. I don't agree with those laws, but stop pretending she was following the law and got nailed by unfair police who treat lesbians worse than NFL players.

2) kinda odd that someone who grossly ignores pretty serious firearms laws would be so diligent in observing the texting while driving law no? Makes it a little hard to believe any of her story...

 

[dsdmmat]

Doesn't this belong in "firearms in the news" or "politics" ?

 

[misunderestimated]

Those darn lesbians

 

[spat]

Their treatment was exactly the same. Anyone with a brain knows that the NFL'er was able to make bond and the lesbian wasn't. So right off the bat, the article is playing typical games.

Two other obvious points:

1) if she "shares" a home with her GF, then she lives in NJ. The expired PA license makes perfect sense: she doesn't live in PA anymore. So therefore, she wasn't carrying a legal firearm, from any state. I don't agree with those laws, but stop pretending she was following the law and got nailed by unfair police who treat lesbians worse than NFL players.

2) kinda odd that someone who grossly ignores pretty serious firearms laws would be so diligent in observing the texting while driving law no? Makes it a little hard to believe any of her story...

If I read the article right, she had the firearms locked in the trunk, so in the vast majority of the US she didn't need a license for them. I can't fault her for not knowing how draconian NJ is, anyone who lives in the free states would have no reason to suspect that one of the other states in "the land of the free" was really a closet totalitarian regime in drag.

I also doubt the lesbian thing had anything to do with it (unless she started giving the officer the "I'm being oppressed because of my minority status" song and dance and pissed him off. I still think it was unfair policing though, any attempt to enforce those type of laws will automatically be unfair. I'm not going to give anyone slack for "just doing my job/following orders" when they enforce crap like that.

Also, if there is even a smidgen of truth to the "dragged her to the station and held her for hours because she wouldn't consent to the search", then the officers involved deserve every criticism leveled at them, as well as charges and a hefty lawsuit.

Maybe she doesn't text and drive because it's dangerous and has nothing to do with the law.

 

[misunderestimated]

following federal guide line you must be legal in the state you left in and legal in your destination State, as long as she is following that she should of never been arrested EXCEPT ,the jersey laws state when in "doubt" they have the duty to arrest

 

[Airborneguy]

following federal guide line you must be legal in the state you left in and legal in your destination State, as long as she is following that she should of never been arrested EXCEPT ,the jersey laws state when in "doubt" they have the duty to arrest

The article actually admitted to the fact that she wasn't following federal law in that she was traveling to HER house in NJ.

 

[misunderestimated]

The article actually admitted to the fact that she wasn't following federal law in that she was traveling to HER house in NJ.

Enough said then, it was not because she was a lesbian , it was just because she chose not to follow the laws

 

[Airborneguy]

Can anyone find a local news article on this one? I can't seem to find one which is strange considering how recent it is and the fact that NJ always makes a big deal out of gun arrests.

 

[Airborneguy]

Take a look at this one:

LGBTQ Woman Arrested, Denied Lawyer and Feminine Hygiene Products Over Legal Firearms

A) This article doesn't even try to hide that she was in violation of federal law. It clearly states that her final destination was in NJ and a residence of hers.

B) At the very bottom, they admit that people have asked them for a source (because there's none to be found), and that THEY are the source. lol

 

[timboy]

Well it's way sexier to have a lesbian in jail but I don't know if that's what happened

Why oh why do some guys assume most lesbians are sexy,I can tell you guys for fact that the couple that lives across the street from me are doing the male race a huge service by dating other women

 

[GOYABEAN]

Found video

 

[spat]

Take a look at this one:

LGBTQ Woman Arrested, Denied Lawyer and Feminine Hygiene Products Over Legal Firearms

A) This article doesn't even try to hide that she was in violation of federal law. It clearly states that her final destination was in NJ and a residence of hers.

B) At the very bottom, they admit that people have asked them for a source (because there's none to be found), and that THEY are the source. lol

I love how they say LGBTQ, as if she is all those things. She is an L, that is all. If I throw SM on the end (for straight male) do I get to claim I am an oppressed LGBTQXYZPDQSM ?

She isn't in violation of federal law though, there is no federal law she violated, she just is outside of the the federal preemption to the state law. There is nothing for a federal prosecutor to charge her with.

 

[FCG LLC]

...She isn't in violation of federal law though, there is no federal law she violated, she just is outside of the the federal preemption to the state law. There is nothing for a federal prosecutor to charge her with.

Correct. Non NJ residents can bring handguns into NJ for competition, to their hotel rooms, and even move to NJ with those handguns, without notification to the state or action required by the firearms possessor.


Now,....assuming as reported is all accurate -

18 USC 926A requires (I feel like a COMPLETE DORK for knowing that piece of federal code!) that you are lawfully able to possess a firearm at both end points of your destination.

• If she was lawfully able to possess a handgun in NJ, she will not be indicted. PA does not require licensure to possess a gun (neither does NJ if you don't domicile there). If the JHP round was a singular instance, absent a firearm within the passenger compartment of her vehicle, she will most likely have that charge thrown out.

• If she had tampons or sanitary napkins in her possession, and those were inventoried, and she did indeed have a menstrual onset, she MIGHT get 10 seconds of compassion from a judge. Yes, the state assumes responsibility for your welfare once you are in their custody, but she is alive to give her side of the story so apart from being embarrassed, wet n sticky and potentially smelly for a day, she did not suffer any real physical injury.

Due to the current onslaught of special snowflake syndrome afflicting society, I am sure she feels her embarrassment is mental anguish, pain and suffering, along with PTSD, and that this is worth a couple hundred thousand or a few million dollars.

• From the NJSP website:

Firearms Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ's) | New Jersey State Police

1. I have moved to New Jersey from another state. May I continue to possess my firearm(s)?
   Firearms which have been legally acquired in another state and are legal to possess in New Jersey may be brought to New Jersey by the owner when residency is established. The owner may VOLUNTARILY register the firearm(s) by completing a Voluntary Form of Firearms Registration, however the owner is not obligated to do so.

 

[Glenn B]

Saw this story on chasing news couldn't find video An NFL Player and a Lesbian Were Both Pulled Over in New Jersey: Guess Which One Went to Jail for Their (Legal) Gun? Not sure if posted before if so Mods please delete

Jenn Jacques, the author of the linked piece made certain to point out the sexual preference of the woman who was stopped and then jailed. It seems to me, that the author is making an issue of the woman being a lesbian as if to imply that the officers treated her differently than the male football player because of her sexual preference. If my inference is correct, then I have to wonder why the author is doing so? Did the woman tell the police she is a lesbian. Did the police have any way of knowing her sexual preference? Do we know how the officers involved feel about the LGBT community? Would there be any reason to assume that the police officers treated her the way they did because of her sexual preference or is it just that the author hopes you will draw the conclusion that the officers did so? My bet is on the last one.

I note that, in an apparent attempt to justify or defend the woman, the author states this:

"But even without a handgun-carrying permit, residents or citizens just passing through, can legally transport unloaded guns in their vehicles, so why is this disturbing treatment of a legal gun owner in New Jersey continuing to occur?"

That statement can be true but, by my understanding, is not necessarily true or correct depending upon the circumstances. In order to transport a firearm, from one state to another and through a state where it normally would not be legal for you to possess that firearms (such as on a trip from PA through NJ to an ultimate destination of VT) the unloaded firearm(s) must be secured in a locked trunk (preferably in a locked case) and the possession of the firearm must be legal at the starting point of the trip and at the end point of the trip. Her permit from PA had expired thus possibly making the pistol illegal for her to possess there.

Then we must consider this:

Meg was driving through Warren County, on her way to the New Jersey home she shares with her girlfriend in Hackettstown, NJ.

Regardless of whether or not legal in PA, she was on her way to a point within NJ wherein she would need a valid NJ pistol license to posses that pistol legally. The federal law regarding transportation of such through that state would not apply since it was illegal for her to possess it there and since that was her final destination. NJ was not merely a state through which she was passing. In addition, if in fact she had hollow point ammunition on the floor of her vehicle, as claimed by the police, she was probably also in violation of another of NJ's firearms related laws. That bullet alone may not have given police probable cause to search the remainder of the vehicle, or to get a warrant to do so, but her mentioning that she had a pistol permit in PA and it being expired may have put the icing on the cake, so to speak.

As for all the other stuff, about tampon denial and the like, I have to wonder about the veracity of those claims. Denying her that would be a blatant violation of her rights. There would be no reason to do so, and maybe strong reasons not to do so, especially once she was in custody in the police station were officers were probably under constant audio-visual surveillance while interrogating her. Could be true, could be balderdash.

There were also other alleged blatant violations of her rights. For example, among other things:

At the station, she was handcuffed to a bench for 10 hours as officers interrogated and tried to intimidate her, demanding consent to search her vehicle.

Interrogating a handcuffed prisoner is questionable, at best, as to the admissibility of any statements made; however, unless things have changed in recent years since I retired from LE, any evidence obtained because a consent to search form was signed by a handcuffed prisoner (especially one handcuffed to a bench for 10 hours before signing it) who had officers allegedly advising and then demanding her at some point(s) to sign the consent form (under the law, advising and demanding are very different than requesting) almost certainly would be inadmissible in court. Such consent almost definitely would be considered to have been coerced from the prisoner. Then there also are the claims that officers refused to allow her to contact an attorney - again adding to coercion if all those things are true. Makes one wonder why the officer read her the Miranda warning in the first place. There was also the fact the officer told her she was not under arrest once he had handcuffed her and read her the Miranda warning. Handcuffing alone, or Miranda warning alone, might not constitute an arrest but both combined would have been considered an arrest by any court in which I ever appeared during my LE career.

As for me, I feel for her. I think her rights to keep and bear firearms (and thus ammunition) were indeed violated. I think the great majority of laws on the books about firearms violate our RKBA. Yet, in today's world, the fact is there are places that any rational adult should know you do not carry firearms without the proper permit or even do not transport them, locked in your trunk, without doing so 100% legally (even though the laws are considered by us to be a violation of the 2nd Amendment). In fact, there are some areas, like NJ, NY, NYC, CA, MA, Chicago and DC that you should try to avoid altogether if there is any question at all as to the legality of you passing through those places with firearms and even if legal you may have a hard time. So, while I feel for her and think her RKBA, let alone other rights, was violated, I also think she was in essence an idiot for driving through NJ with a handgun in her trunk when NJ was her final destination and she evidently did not have a NJ permit to carry.

As for the actions of the police, if they are true as alleged by the woman or her representatives, or the author of the article, there are going to be, or should be, some officers out of a job or maybe even doing some jail time in the not too distant future and there will almost assuredly be a woman (regardless of sexual preference) who will wind up with a hefty monetary settlement.

Of course, there could be facts here of which I am not aware that would change my opinion but for now I base my opinion on the facts as they appear to me right now and upon my understanding of the laws involved.

All the best,
Glenn B

 

[Automan21]

Cant the title read man and woman pulled over with gun? What if she's not a lesbian and he's just a waterboy for the league lol.

 

[Airborneguy]

I love how they say LGBTQ, as if she is all those things. She is an L, that is all. If I throw SM on the end (for straight male) do I get to claim I am an oppressed LGBTQXYZPDQSM ?

She isn't in violation of federal law though, there is no federal law she violated, she just is outside of the the federal preemption to the state law. There is nothing for a federal prosecutor to charge her with.

Good point, but you know what I meant. She wasn't operating within the scope of federal legal transport laws.

And you make a point I constantly make. Why do gays allow themselves to be lumped in with Trans and queer (which I belief covers people who make up sexual orientations)?

 

[Criticalt]

GAYS UNITE BEHIND YOUR FELLOW LGBT!!
yea, that aint gonna happen.

The video says she was traveling to her girlfriends parents house, not her place of residence.
If she lives in PA, she does not need a permit to own a gun, just to conseal carry a gun.
So can she travel with a gun in the trunk? She legally owns it in PA. However, her destination is NJ, where its not legal.......so she broke the law.
Then theres the hollow points. No way, no how legal for anyone in NJ.....so she broke the law again.
Also, do you have to tell police in NJ you have a gun in the car when asked? The cop says he saw the cartridge and asked if she had a gun in the car, she said "no"........so she MAY have broke another law.