U.S. MARSHALS SOG Goes Full Retard...

[Target]

I'm more pissed about not being able to buy one just like it for myself.
Hell, I'd like a real Canik TP9SFX...can't get one of those either.

Yep, just jealous.
Is it the best tool for the job? Probably not.
Are there others that would suffice? Sure.
Its not even a 10mm. Aren't these guys supposed to be real men?

 

[Edwardteach72]

I'm more pissed about not being able to buy one just like it for myself.
Hell, I'd like a real Canik TP9SFX...can't get one of those either.

Yep, just jealous.
Is it the best tool for the job? Probably not.
Are there others that would suffice? Sure.
Its not even a 10mm. Aren't these guys supposed to be real men?

I mean if you got the money you can easily pick up a staccato

 

[Target]

I mean if you got the money you can easily pick up a staccato

Why bother?
Can't get it with a standard 21 or 18 rd mag. May as well get a $130 Hi-Point.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Why bother?
Can't get it with a standard 21 or 18 rd mag. May as well get a $130 Hi-Point.

They do have their single stack 9mm versions as well

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Meh.. Glock 19s work for for elite special forces units...

 

[Target]

And John Wick.

 

[Edwardteach72]

And John Wick.

I mean he did use an STI

 

[ECU Pirates]

I mean he did use an STI

Also a H&k.

 

[Upstate43]

And being grumpy about the price is the only issue that matters. If a private citizen wants to spend that much, okay. His prerogative. His money. But when it comes to tax dollars paying for it that at the end of the day, it’s just a sidearm. I’m not okay with that. Top tier Operators from around the world do just fine Glocks, HK’s, etc. Hell. Top competition shooters also do just fine with Glocks with custom drop in triggers and milled slides.

It isn’t like getting this will make the difference in a mission being completed versus not being completed.

1) Are we sure the Marshals even paid full price? Often companies will give discounts (especially on volume sales) to earn contracts and get their name and reputation out there.

2) Compared to the tactical guchi and gear most LEO SWAT teams are wearing (radios, helmets, NVG's, high-speed boots, armored vehicles), the cost of these pistols will be a drop in the bucket.

I'm not a fan of a 1911. It's one of those pistols where everything needs to be perfect in order to get reliable function. However, having shot a few, I totally understand the appeal...that SA trigger pull is in a class of its own. For people who are likely to use their pistols (LEO tactical teams) I totally understand why they'd prefer a well-tuned SA 1911 over an internal striker fired pistol.

 

[Marine Cpl]

1) Are we sure the Marshals even paid full price? Often companies will give discounts (especially on volume sales) to earn contracts and get their name and reputation out there.

2) Compared to the tactical guchi and gear most LEO SWAT teams are wearing (radios, helmets, NVG's, high-speed boots, armored vehicles), the cost of these pistols will be a drop in the bucket.

I'm not a fan of a 1911. It's one of those pistols where everything needs to be perfect in order to get reliable function. However, having shot a few, I totally understand the appeal...that SA trigger pull is in a class of its own. For people who are likely to use their pistols (LEO tactical teams) I totally understand why they'd prefer a well-tuned SA 1911 over an internal striker fired pistol.

Tactical teams don’t use pistols as primaries.

 

[Upstate43]

Tactical teams don’t use pistols as primaries.

But a LE team is a lot more likely to employ a pistol compared to the general pool of pistol users. A pistol with better trigger pull and perhaps better accuracy certainly has its appeal and advantages for such a user.

 

[Marine Cpl]

But a LE team is a lot more likely to employ a pistol compared to the general pool of pistol users. A pistol with better trigger pull and perhaps better accuracy certainly has its appeal and advantages for such a user.

Again. No SWAT team ever goes into a dwelling bearing a pistol for CQB. Regardless, if you actually read all the comments here, you will see that it’s BS. Operators throughout the world and police throughout the world do excellent with other pistols. Your argument then is that every cop, soldier, or civilian should carry a 1911 because it is superior. It’s not.

 

[Edwardteach72]

 

[Upstate43]

Again. No SWAT team ever goes into a dwelling bearing a pistol for CQB. Regardless, if you actually read all the comments here, you will see that it’s BS. Operators throughout the world and police throughout the world do excellent with other pistols. Your argument then is that every cop, soldier, or civilian should carry a 1911 because it is superior. It’s not.

You're not SWAT, so stop arguing as if you have some dog in this fight.

Tactical teams and certain military units have a higher likelihood of using their sidearms...that's why certain units place a heavier emphasis on pistol marksmanship over others.

Stop being offended that some agency chose to use a 1911...I don't have a particular fondness for that design, but it is proven and has its advantages. Plenty of other agencies and units have used it in real world situations (USMC, FBI, plenty of other LE groups). I'm not arguing that every cop and soldier should carry a 1911...the design is old, but still has some advantages. It's not as if the Marshals haven't done the analysis on their end...if they think a well-tuned 1911 is the best tool for the job, who are you to critique that decision?

 

[Marine Cpl]

You're not SWAT, so stop arguing as if you have some dog in this fight.

Tactical teams and certain military units have a higher likelihood of using their sidearms...that's why certain units place a heavier emphasis on pistol marksmanship over others.

Stop being offended that some agency chose to use a 1911...I don't have a particular fondness for that design, but it is proven and has its advantages. Plenty of other agencies and units have used it in real world situations (USMC, FBI, plenty of other LE groups). I'm not arguing that every cop and soldier should carry a 1911...the design is old, but still has some advantages. It's not as if the Marshals haven't done the analysis on their end...if they think a well-tuned 1911 is the best tool for the job, who are you to critique that decision?

So are the FBI tactical teams at a disadvantage? US Navy Seals? How about the Secret Service TAC teams? Are they at a distance because they don’t have 4000 dollar 1911’s? Would 1000 dollar 1911’s suffice? Or only 4000 dollar ones?

 

[Upstate43]

So are the FBI tactical teams at a disadvantage? US Navy Seals? How about the Secret Service TAC teams? Are they at a distance because they don’t have 4000 dollar 1911’s? Would 1000 dollar 1911’s suffice? Or only 4000 dollar ones?

I'm not saying anyone without a $4k 1911 is at a disadvantage. Rather I'm saying that each firearm design has its own set of pro's and con's. US Marshals likely weighed the pro's and con's when deciding on their SWAT's next pistol.

There is no point turning this into a debate on the superiority of one pistol over the other for SWAT and high-speed applications: a) that's an endless rabbit hole and b) I don't think anyone here is really qualified to have that debate.

And again I ask: are we even sure that the Marshals paid full MSRP for these pistols? Price-cutting is very common in the world of government contracts.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I'm not saying anyone without a $4k 1911 is at a disadvantage. Rather I'm saying that each firearm design has its own set of pro's and con's. US Marshals likely weighed the pro's and con's when deciding on their SWAT's next pistol.

There is no point turning this into a debate on the superiority of one pistol over the other for SWAT and high-speed applications: a) that's an endless rabbit hole and b) I don't think anyone here is really qualified to have that debate.

And again I ask: are we even sure that the Marshals paid full MSRP for these pistols? Price-cutting is very common in the world of government contracts.

The articles quoted the price. But even at discount, it isn’t going to be what the New Glock that the Secret Service and FBI tactical teams are getting at discount.

Now here is the golden question? If a Tactical Team member from the US Marshals makes a lateral move to the FBI’s SWAT team, will he be at a disadvantage when he has to holster a Glock? Let’s be real here. It’s BS. Whoever is in charge of the Marshal’s TAC Team just likes 1911’s and that’s why they have them and every new operator is forced to use one. Because if 1911’s were seriously better every TAC team from every agency and military would have them otherwise their team leaders would be incompetent.

 

[Defilade]

The most "Tactical" teams in the world have used SIG's/Glock's/HK's for decades....Seals/SAS.

 

[spat]

These STIs are fucking amazing. The only thing the marshals did wrong was pick a $4,000 gun.

But cost aside they picked a great one

When you're spending someone else's money (i.e. taxpayers) cost just isn't a consideration.

 

[Darth]

You're not SWAT, so stop arguing as if you have some dog in this fight.

Tactical teams and certain military units have a higher likelihood of using their sidearms...that's why certain units place a heavier emphasis on pistol marksmanship over others.

Stop being offended that some agency chose to use a 1911...I don't have a particular fondness for that design, but it is proven and has its advantages. Plenty of other agencies and units have used it in real world situations (USMC, FBI, plenty of other LE groups). I'm not arguing that every cop and soldier should carry a 1911...the design is old, but still has some advantages. It's not as if the Marshals haven't done the analysis on their end...if they think a well-tuned 1911 is the best tool for the job, who are you to critique that decision?

*raises hand*

I’m the one that pays for the toys, so you’re fucking a right I will critique it.

I’m not a NY Governor either, but yet somehow I will also be the one to say “yeah, you are wasting my money and yet some out there are still dumb enough to defend you.”

This is what’s known as “we have a budget and if we don’t spend it all they will cut it, let’s buy stupid shit, people will defend us either way, fuck em.”

 

[ECU Pirates]

And I know you won’t accept this, but there are elite law enforcement units that are just as high-speed as military operators. Most of them probably came from those units. Heck on Thursday I spent the day at the academy training CQB with an NYPD detective who did 12 years in 5th Group.
.[/QUOTE

Edit: I disagreed but should have asked what units compare to elite military units? I’m not buying it but would like an example.

What did this nypd detective carry? Guessing it wasn’t a 4K race gun.

 

[ECU Pirates]

View attachment 52243

Look! A 400 gun.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Look! A 400 gun.

But it's not a handgun is it?

 

[BDinPutnam]

Amazing depth and breadth of knowledge on what this "SWAT" unit is for and does, as well as what US mil "special forces" are for and does, with what, and how, under what circumstances.

The brushes here are so broad I could paint my house in one pass.

 

[ECU Pirates]

Amazing depth and breadth of knowledge on what this "SWAT" unit is for and does, as well as what US mil "special forces" are for and does, with what, and how, under what circumstances.

The brushes here are so broad I could paint my house in one pass.

The bottom line is a 4k service pistol is a waste of tax payer money. A small waste in the big picture, but a waste none the less.

 

[ECU Pirates]

But it's not a handgun is it?

Can’t tell in that pic. Ask will. Everyone knows a semi auto is a terrible choice for a shield man. Smith made the r8 for a reason.

 

[Marine Cpl]

All I know is that Seals, Delta, Green Berets, Raiders, PJ’s, etc aren’t as high speed as the US Marshal Service to need a $4000 race gun that’s been modified to run reliably. Those Martials are the Tip of the Spear. They operate behind enemy lines for minutes and sometimes hours at a time. Places like Texas with no hopes of resupply. Sometimes they go hours without coffee. They deploy in adverse weather conditions unlike Seals. At times, a passing shower gets their gear wet. They need a firearm that can run and keep running that can take the abuse of occasional lint and dust bunnies unlike a Glock, Sig, or HK. It needs a heavy coat of Duracoat too in a tactical color to help blend in with coffee stains because serving drug warrants and going in hot is much more dangerous than a walk in the park in Afghanistan, Yemen, or a casual swim at the beach of a friendly country like Iran.

 

[Marine Cpl]

The SOG perform highly dangerous missions. The group's missions include: apprehending fugitives; protecting dignitaries; providing court security; transporting high-profile and dangerous prisoners; providing witness security; and seizing assets. Green Berets are just wannabes.

I wonder how long this guy looked in the mirror after kitting up.

 

[Acer-m14]

just asking for a friend .. now that they have that 4K pistol .. are they transporting Hillary soon LOL

 

[BDinPutnam]

The bottom line is a 4k service pistol is a waste of tax payer money. A small waste in the big picture, but a waste none the less.

I was editorializing about the qualitative commentary rather than the quantitative. In fact I considered including a note to that effect but didnt think it necessary.

I do think these guys could (and should) be able to obtain the same quality and features for less spend.