US and Iran conflict thread. ( merged threads)

tirwin1

tirwin1

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Defilade said:
Secretary of War" Pete Hegseth Fires Top General Who Opposed Iran Ground Invasion

Gen. Randy George, as Army Chief of Staff, was responsible for preparing and equipping the Army for large-scale combat.

He reportedly expressed serious concerns about the high risks, enormous costs, and potential heavy casualties of a full-scale ground invasion of Iran a large, mountainous country with a battle-hardened military.

You can no longer warn about the dangers to our soldiers without getting fired.

Gen. Randy George was ousted today for raising serious concerns about a major U.S. ground war in Iran.
If protecting American lives gets you removed… who will protect our troops now?

Experts warn that Iran would be far worse than Afghanistan or Iraq

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stokes

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GOPerfect said:
Pretty kick ass! (If real)
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Looks fake to me. At least that secondary explosion that makes the huge mushroom looks faked. Look at the first one, there is a lengthy pause between the initial blast and the one that caused the cloud. The second one the 2 explosions are much closer together and it looks like the mushroom is the same as the first, like it was edited into the vid both times from the same source.
 
SonOfSun

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spat said:
"Their shipping lanes".

It's international waters. What makes that their shipping lanes ?
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If you are using international waters, the Territorial Sea is 12 nautical miles from land border. Lots of the straight isn't even that wide., so.....

If you aren't using internationally recognized rules, then simply the power to control them makes them their waters. It's really as simple as that. It was against the "rules" for the American revolutionaries to target British field officers. They did it anyways because they could and it was effective. Same here. Iran will keep the strait shut and potentially mine it because they can and it's effective. The waters are theirs as nobody else has either been able or had the will to wrestle control over them from Iran.
 
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spat

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SonOfSun said:
If you are using international waters, the Territorial Sea is 12 nautical miles from land border. Lots of the straight isn't even that wide., so.....

If you aren't using internationally recognized rules, then simply the power to control them makes them their waters. It's really as simple as that. It was against the "rules" for the American revolutionaries to target British field officers. They did it anyways because they could and it was effective. Same here. Iran will keep the strait shut and potentially mine it because they can and it's effective. The waters are theirs as nobody else has either been able or had the will to wrestle control over them from Iran.
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The straight of hormuz is recognized international waters, and has been for a long time.

It is a specific exception to the normal 12 miles rule.

And even if it wasn't, the more general rules would put the border between Iranian territory and Oman at exactly the half way point.

So ships could still sail through without touching Iranian waters.

If you go by the "who has the power" rules, then we can basically just claim 70% of the planet as ours.

There is no interpretation where Iran controls the whole passage.
 
SonOfSun

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spat said:
There is no interpretation where Iran controls the whole passage.
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Well, I guess that's why boats are moving through freely.

Same way the US "can't" blow up Venezuelan drug boats. We did it, nobody stopped us, so.....

Well, with the Strait of Hormuz Iran is controlling it. They're doing it, nobody has stopped them, so.....


The world can get together and say "this is the rule", but it doesn't matter. The rules are set by those with the power and chutzpah to enforce their will. That's all it boils down to.

I'm not saying I like Iran, just that that control of any region of land/water is dictated by the ability AND willingness to project power to control it.
 
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C3D

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SonOfSun said:
If you are using international waters, the Territorial Sea is 12 nautical miles from land border. Lots of the straight isn't even that wide., so.....

If you aren't using internationally recognized rules, then simply the power to control them makes them their waters. It's really as simple as that. It was against the "rules" for the American revolutionaries to target British field officers. They did it anyways because they could and it was effective. Same here. Iran will keep the strait shut and potentially mine it because they can and it's effective. The waters are theirs as nobody else has either been able or had the will to wrestle control over them from Iran.
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The shipping lanes are considered to be transit passage under UNCLOS. The strait falls between Oman and Iran at its narrowest point, but the channels in the middle are considered to be free for all international vessels to transit without interference. And yes whoever can fuck with them de facto controls them, notwithstanding UNCLOS.
 
H

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spat said:
The straight of hormuz is recognized international waters, and has been for a long time.

It is a specific exception to the normal 12 miles rule.

And even if it wasn't, the more general rules would put the border between Iranian territory and Oman at exactly the half way point.

So ships could still sail through without touching Iranian waters.

If you go by the "who has the power" rules, then we can basically just claim 70% of the planet as ours.

There is no interpretation where Iran controls the whole passage.
Click to expand...

DUDE!, Iran controls it by force. Not by law. They have land based anti ship missiles and Mines and drones, Artillery .
 
spat

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SonOfSun said:
Well, I guess that's why boats are moving through freely.

Same way the US "can't" blow up Venezuelan drug boats. We did it, nobody stopped us, so.....

Well, with the Strait of Hormuz Iran is controlling it. They're doing it, nobody has stopped them, so.....


The world can get together and say "this is the rule", but it doesn't matter. The rules are set by those with the power and chutzpah to enforce their will. That's all it boils down to.

I'm not saying I like Iran, just that that control of any region of land/water is dictated by the ability AND willingness to project power to control it.
Click to expand...
So, if anyone who can shut down the straight controls it, then obviously we control it. Along with every other significant naval passage anywhere in the world.

Because Iran might be able to make that passage more risky than the ship owners want to chance, we sure as hell could eliminate anything bigger than a rowboat trying to get through there too.

OfC, they would have to settle for sinking the ships. We could seize them and redirect the oil where we want.

We could *easily* impose "sanctions" on anyone paying Iranian ransom and seize vessels on that pretext.

So, who controls it then ?
 
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