Using somebody elses AR15 in PA

[Egret-II]

Just to be COMPLETELY clear to the Minority Report Special Police that are watching the forums. I dont want to buy an AR while living in NYS. Eventually I'll move out of the state, and I'll be able to buy whatever I want. Just like the Constitution says. The change of address on My NY pistol permit is a good info to know tho. But I just wanted to know if it was safe to travel to the range, IN PA, with my brother's AR15.

 

[Saltwater60]

Just to be COMPLETELY clear to the Minority Report Special Police that are watching the forums. I dont want to buy an AR while living in NYS. Eventually I'll move out of the state, and I'll be able to buy whatever I want. Just like the Constitution says. The change of address on My NY pistol permit is a good info to know tho. But I just wanted to know if it was safe to travel to the range, IN PA, with my brother's AR15.

I would say yes. I would just have your brother send you a text saying he is letting you borrow it while in PA and will be returned prior to you heading back to NYS. It’s legal in PA and it’s no different than renting one from a range. Have fun.

 

[thughes]

I would say yes. I would just have your brother send you a text saying he is letting you borrow it while in PA and will be returned prior to you heading back to NYS. It’s legal in PA and it’s no different than renting one from a range. Have fun.

Exactly! Probably even better to have a note from your mom too.

 

[Acer-m14]

Get a PA non-driver ID.

i was just thinking that too ..

you just got off the Desantis Airlines in PA and you need a ID ..

your name is now "jose alfredo jimenez"

 

[Saltwater60]

Exactly! Probably even better to have a note from your mom too.

Hilarious. Think logically here instead of with emotion.
The reason I say this is the OP doesn’t live in PA and the loaned gun will not be legal in his home state. It is illegal to transfer the ownership of a firearm to another individual if you don’t have residence in the same state that allows the private transfer except to loan the firearm as indicated in the article below. Yes he has property in PA, but no legal documents showing that readily at hand. Also the OP says his brother lets him pick firearms up from his home. What if a neighbor calls the police because there is a random guy leaving his neighbors home with a gun and he doesn’t recognize the OP?
A simple text could be very helpful in this matter and shows the intent is not an illegal transfer of a firearm and the OP is not a burglar. The later half should be easy since he will have a key to the home. This simple text could save a lot of headaches. Is it likely any of this will happen no, is a simple text wise to CYA? IMO yes. If you think that’s ridiculous then fine and the OP could have easily received an answer with a quick google search as I did.
Keep in mind people do strange things. I loaned a gun to a friend for a three week period and he kept it for 2.5 years. Sure they are brothers and you don’t expect this to happen, but it does.
Best of luck and it’s your life handle it how you please, but if you don’t want a variety of opinions don’t post the question on a forum.

Can You Lend a Firearm to Another Person under Federal Law?

From time to time, individuals inquire as to whether they can lend a firearm to a friend. While state firearms laws vary on this subject (for instance, in Pennsylvania an individual can lend shotgu…

blog.princelaw.com

 

[Mosinitis]

OP, fuck that firearms shit and take up knitting or stamp collecting. Who needs problems.

 

[FLA45fan]

Get a PA non-driver ID.

This right here! I've lived in two states for years (NY and FL, NY and AZ, and FL and AZ) and have purchased guns in those states. In the OPs case he should keep his NY drivers license and CWP for his regular use. He can get a PA non driver ID and use it to purchase firearms in PA. At that point he knows that certain guns are not legal to take back to NY so he wouldn't. He should also know that if he wants a handgun in NY that he owns in PA he has to follow his particular county's procedures to add it to his CWP.
He can also borrow his brother's AR and take it to the range without repercussions.

 

[thughes]

Hilarious. Think logically here instead of with emotion.
The reason I say this is the OP doesn’t live in PA and the loaned gun will not be legal in his home state. It is illegal to transfer the ownership of a firearm to another individual if you don’t have residence in the same state that allows the private transfer except to loan the firearm as indicated in the article below. Yes he has property in PA, but no legal documents showing that readily at hand. Also the OP says his brother lets him pick firearms up from his home. What if a neighbor calls the police because there is a random guy leaving his neighbors home with a gun and he doesn’t recognize the OP?
A simple text could be very helpful in this matter and shows the intent is not an illegal transfer of a firearm and the OP is not a burglar. The later half should be easy since he will have a key to the home. This simple text could save a lot of headaches. Is it likely any of this will happen no, is a simple text wise to CYA? IMO yes. If you think that’s ridiculous then fine and the OP could have easily received an answer with a quick google search as I did.
Keep in mind people do strange things. I loaned a gun to a friend for a three week period and he kept it for 2.5 years. Sure they are brothers and you don’t expect this to happen, but it does.
Best of luck and it’s your life handle it how you please, but if you don’t want a variety of opinions don’t post the question on a forum.

Can You Lend a Firearm to Another Person under Federal Law?

From time to time, individuals inquire as to whether they can lend a firearm to a friend. While state firearms laws vary on this subject (for instance, in Pennsylvania an individual can lend shotgu…

blog.princelaw.com

Apparently the sarcasm was not obvious, sorry.

Man, I get it....really I do. Point being (rather facetiously) that all of these repressive NY laws seem to be turning law-abiding NY gun owners into a bunch of chickenshit cucks afraid to take a firearm outside of their own home. It just pisses me off, that's all. I hate seeing this shit for you guys.

I'll sign off on this one now since I no longer have a dog in the fight.

 

[Acer-m14]

one thing i see being posted here is can i give a friend a gun to use .. blah blah blah ...

but in the OP's case its his brother .. a immediate family member ..

so as long as passing a gun to a immediate family member with out a NICS transfer there is no problem ..

Quick question
My brother lives in PA

 

[Acer-m14]

"

#3: FOLLOW YOUR STATE’S LAWS ON PRIVATE TRANSACTIONS​

Third, follow your state’s laws regarding private transactions. Some states may have specific requirements. For example, Colorado requires a background check processed by a licensed firearm dealer before gifting a gun, unless the gift is to a member of your immediate family. Connecticut and California have even stricter laws, requiring background checks for all private transactions—including gifts—regardless of who is receiving the gift."

The 101 Guide to Gifting a Gun - U.S. LawShield

Wanting to gift that special someone a firearm? Consider these legal matters and know the law before purchasing a gun as a gift.

www.uslawshield.com

 

[subsonic]

So much misinformation here. Just about only thughes gets it right.

In PA you can certainly borrow any gun that is legal in PA. However driving with a pistol and no PA permit as a nonresident is a hairy proposition and you need to do your homework. An AR-15 with a stock is fine. You can even build your own in PA with all the features as a non-resident and you are fine as long as you don’t bring it to New York without complying with New York bullshit and you got or built the receiver legally in the first place.

Buying from an FFL is another matter. If it is a complete rifle or shotgun (with stock and sufficient barrel length) then under federal law they can sell and transfer it to you directly in person if and only if it is legal in your home in New York! You don’t need any special PA permit, and it doesn’t need to be shipped to New York. But it needs to be compliant with your home rules before they transfer it, or if for some reason they do ship it to a New York FFL, they had better make it compliant before they ship it. But many PA FFL’s don’t want to deal with New York, especially now, and especially with the new semiautomatic rifle rules, where you need the new New York permit. Also if it’s a pistol, an other, a receiver or a frame, they do have to ship it to a New York FFL and cannot transfer it directly.

As for getting a PA nondriver ID, very bad move if you are not a bona fide PA resident. You still have to fill out the ATF 4473 form and put your home address. Your ID must match that address. Even if the background check passes the ATF does come after the fact and hit buyers with felony charges for any false information on the form if you end up on their radar years later. They have pressed felony charges for mistakenly checking wrong boxes years later, in some cases where another federal agency altogether was investigating something unrelated, they fish in the 4473s for falsehoods to paint you as an armed criminal. Faking an address would be a blatant violation under both federal and state law.

if you have a bona fide PA residence then why the heck would you stay a New York resident?

 

[Egret-II]

So much misinformation here. Just about only thughes gets it right.

In PA you can certainly borrow any gun that is legal in PA. However driving with a pistol and no PA permit as a nonresident is a hairy proposition and you need to do your homework. An AR-15 with a stock is fine. You can even build your own in PA with all the features as a non-resident and you are fine as long as you don’t bring it to New York without complying with New York bullshit and you got or built the receiver legally in the first place.

Buying from an FFL is another matter. If it is a complete rifle or shotgun (with stock and sufficient barrel length) then under federal law they can sell and transfer it to you directly in person if and only if it is legal in your home in New York! You don’t need any special PA permit, and it doesn’t need to be shipped to New York. But it needs to be compliant with your home rules before they transfer it, or if for some reason they do ship it to a New York FFL, they had better make it compliant before they ship it. But many PA FFL’s don’t want to deal with New York, especially now, and especially with the new semiautomatic rifle rules, where you need the new New York permit. Also if it’s a pistol, an other, a receiver or a frame, they do have to ship it to a New York FFL and cannot transfer it directly.

As for getting a PA nondriver ID, very bad move if you are not a bona fide PA resident. You still have to fill out the ATF 4473 form and put your home address. Your ID must match that address. Even if the background check passes the ATF does come after the fact and hit buyers with felony charges for any false information on the form if you end up on their radar years later. They have pressed felony charges for mistakenly checking wrong boxes years later, in some cases where another federal agency altogether was investigating something unrelated, they fish in the 4473s for falsehoods to paint you as an armed criminal. Faking an address would be a blatant violation under both federal and state law.

if you have a bona fide PA residence then why the heck would you stay a New York resident?

Thank you for the answe. I do have an out of state PA pistol permit. And I'm still here because I work for NYC. It pays good.

 

[subsonic]

Thank you for the answe. I do have an out of state PA pistol permit. And I'm still here because I work for NYC. It pays good.

Then you are legally in the clear to possess and drive around with any Pennsylvania-legal firearm that you own or borrow in PA. Just the only way you can own a rifle or pistol that is not legal at home is if you build it in PA yourself, and any frame or receiver is one that you legally acquired and brought to PA or built yourself in PA, and you can’t bring it home.

Obviously what others said applies about not doing stupid or illegal stuff to raise “stranger with New York plates running around armed” complaints and being able to explain yourself if necessary.

and I’m just an anonymous internet guy so run it by your lawyer, lol.

 

[FLA45fan]

So much misinformation here. Just about only thughes gets it right

As for getting a PA nondriver ID, very bad move if you are not a bona fide PA resident. You still have to fill out the ATF 4473 form and put your home address. Your ID must match that address. Even if the background check passes the ATF does come after the fact and hit buyers with felony charges for any false information on the form if you end up on their radar years later. They have pressed felony charges for mistakenly checking wrong boxes years later, in some cases where another federal agency altogether was investigating something unrelated, they fish in the 4473s for falsehoods to paint you as an armed criminal. Faking an address would be a blatant violation under both federal and state law.

if you have a bona fide PA residence then why the heck would you stay a New York resident?

That's my case. I own properties there. I haven't changed my driver license because I don't want to lose my NYS gun permit. Hell, I'm in PA every weekend from friday to sunday.

To clear up something per the OP's posts and state IDs. If he lives there part time, he is entitled to obtain a state issued ID. He has stated that he owns properties in PA and that he is in PA every weekend from Friday to Sunday. Or secondly per the instructions on a Form 4473, Section 26.b. Supplemental Documentation if he has two residences, he may use his NYS Drivers License for identification and another government issued document such as a tax bill that establishes his secondary residence.