We need to stop Bill S1192

[gun_slinger_boy]

The good news is, if it passes you can ignore it!

 

[Truebeliever]

When it comes to NY pistol permit SCOTUS will stay as narrow as possible in it's ruling. It should find that NY is in violation of 2A simply because the state requires a person demostrate cause or forced restrictions. That said, the state knows this ruling will likely not be in their favor and will have the above legislation in place to restrict immediately anyone that files for an amendment. Which in IMHO wouldn't be unnecessary since the restriction is found by the court to be unconstitutional. At that point all carry permits are valid without restrictions. But of course the state will try to say otherwise and try to put in effect new policies for renewal. Yet another court challenge. See how it works? Perpetual court battles. lol

With the passage of this Bill, Any pass/fail qualification for a constitutional right for a citizen to exercise, is a bridge too far even for a liberal court. It's the proverbial slippery slope. Apply the logic of pass/fail to most of the Bill of Rights and have a citizen demonstrate cause and understanding and it would create serious legal issues.

LEOSA is required probably for your job or to continue LEO status for insurance liability reasons. That's not the same as a constitutional right. A citizen doesn't have to demonstrate knowledge, understanding or proficiency to exercise a god given right or any of their constitutional rights when acting as a citizen. Acting as LEO and working for an organization is a different animal and one can understand the necessity, legally, for such qualifications.

I agree that the courts would not change any safety certification a state may put in place and those fees associated with it unless of course states decide to make is so expensive that exercising your right becomes cost prohibited and therefor marginalizes a income class of citizens.

All this of course in my opinion which counts for nothing. lol

Leosa requal isn’t required for my job. In fact , I wouldn’t have to requal once a year if I was still an active LEO under the law. Just meet that department standards which could be no requal cycle . I mention LEOSA not as a support of requals but to say what a pain in the rear it is.

And the courts will say a safety certificate requirement is okay if it’s not too crazy. And they might use police requals as an example to follow. Remember that the SCOTUS case is about self defense being good cause for a permit . And the lower court decisions have been resistant to expansion of gun rights recognition.

 

[Jmac00]

meanwhile in Arizona, its open carry, everywhere ( except were they sell alcohol )

 

[RedBreast21]

And they might use police requals as an example to follow. Remember that the SCOTUS case is about self defense being good cause for a permit . And the lower court decisions have been resistant to expansion of gun rights recognition.

This is exactly what I am talking about. The court would never consider it. Safety cert, yes. Pass/fail qualification with a firearm? No. I can create a course of fire in which only national ranked pro shooter could possible pass. To set a standard of qualification is not in the spirit of the constitution. Apply it to 2A? Then apply aptitude and proficiency standard to the entire document.

I forget the year that it was proposed in Albany by democrats in the assembly but they attempted a shooting qualification standard that exceeded state police standards. I am sure it was for safety. Police get 27 feet to engage a deadly threat, the citizen 6 feet under NY law. As it stands right now, the citizen has a higher standard to meet.

 

[Truebeliever]

This is exactly what I am talking about. The court would never consider it. Safety cert, yes. Pass/fail qualification with a firearm? No. I can create a course of fire in which only national ranked pro shooter could possible pass. To set a standard of qualification is not in the spirit of the constitution. Apply it to 2A? Then apply aptitude and proficiency standard to the entire document.

I forget the year that it was proposed in Albany by democrats in the assembly but they attempted a shooting qualification standard that exceeded state police standards. I am sure it was for safety. Police get 27 feet to engage a deadly threat, the citizen 6 feet under NY law. As it stands right now, the citizen has a higher standard to meet.

That’s not correct about the distances. The difference is a duty to retreat . There is no distance requirement if one has a duty to retreat. A police officer does not have a duty to retreat. A civilian does with exceptions have a duty to retreat.
As a civilian, and you saw a rape 50 feet away with a chain linked fence between you and the rape. To stop the rape, you would be legally allowed to shoot the rapist to stop the rape.

 

[Acer-m14]

YUP, That is exactly what I did. So, I got to vote against Hillary twice! And I can honestly say that I felt the Bern too! You can do it online.
WARNING! You will start getting emails from Chuckie and Nancy asking for mo money and you will receive phone calls from pollsters. I love that part because when they call, I lie my ass off.

got a link .. ?? is it multi lang .. LOL ..

 

[Grimscale]

but the safety certificate might pass a court challenge.

Then they open the door for "safety certificates" in the form of I.D. for other Rights, like voting.
Not sure they really want to go there.

 

[Truebeliever]

Then they open the door for "safety certificates" in the form of I.D. for other Rights, like voting.
Not sure they really want to go there.

It would likely pass muster under strict scrutiny by the courts standards . You don’t have to like it, but it’s likely prediction of what the courts would decide. At least the certificate for the first purchase.
One could argue the requal requirement is stricter than police standards somewhere in the state.

 

[Grimscale]

It would likely pass muster under strict scrutiny by the courts standards .

It would absolutely NOT pass muster under any legitimate "strict" scrutiny, unless that court was so hopelessly corrupt.

"Shall Not Be Infringed" is kind of specific. And has nothing to do with "police standards" anywhere.

 

[Truebeliever]

It would absolutely NOT pass muster under any legitimate "strict" scrutiny, unless that court was so hopelessly corrupt.

"Shall Not Be Infringed" is kind of specific. And has nothing to do with "police standards" anywhere.

Get back into reality. You quoting the 2nd admendment “shall not be infringed “hasn’t really worked in any court this century including the Heller case. They will set limits.
The police thing was to show that NYS is attempting to hold CCW to higher standards than police officers . The courts aren’t going to go for that when someone sues to say the requirements set by NYS are unreasonable.

 

[Saltwater60]

Get back into reality. You quoting the 2nd admendment “shall not be infringed “hasn’t really worked in any court this century including the Heller case. They will set limits.
The police thing was to show that NYS is attempting to hold CCW to higher standards than police officers . The courts aren’t going to go for that when someone sues to say the requirements set by NYS are unreasonable.

He was referring specifically to strict scrutiny that has not been applied to the 2a.
We have safety class requirements now in NYS in some counties. I have to take a safety certificate course and submit it with my pistol permit now. There are a few other counties that require it. Erie county says you need to take additional training to be considered for a full carry permit now. Funny I just looked and they removed this recently.

 

[Chevusa]

I already have to do this so I really don't care to be honest. There's nothing we can do to stop it anyhow.
Now all of you will too get to experience the fun (sarc.) of going to the range and putting your left foot in then your right foot in and doing the hokey pokey and then taking the written test after. It's all bullshit but what can you do? Moving is really your only option. New York has fallen.

 

[Truebeliever]

At least when I do the LEOSA requal, I get the benefit of the LEOSA law. It’s BS to make people who have been shooting/carrying safely for years to jump thru these hoops to deter new people from applying for their CCW.

 

[Acer-m14]

Then they open the door for "safety certificates" in the form of I.D. for other Rights, like voting.
Not sure they really want to go there.

people do more damage with voting .. should be safety voting classes and licenses for that and lots of fees