What’s the Rules on Shotguns?

[DrBleachCocktail]

So I was reading the unSAFE ACT on shotguns and I just want to make sure I’m on the same page.

A semiautomatic shotgun having at least one of the following characteristics:
a. Folding or Telescoping Stock
b. Thumbhole Stock
c. Second Handgrip or Protruding Grip that can be held by non-trigger
hand
d. Fixed magazine capacity in excess of seven rounds
e. An ability to accept a detachable magazine

It doesn’t say anything about pistol grips so I’m guessing I’m good to go but I can’t have a detachable magazine?

 

[cgrutt]

Shotguns are funny there is an exemption if it holds five rounds or less in tube. So you can have a folding stock for example if tube capacity is five or less. BUT you can add a seven round tube with no other evil features. Pistol grip is good to go. Guess it was price of admission for unSAFE for the Fudds with their turkey blasters...

ETA this is for semi-auto not pump.

 

[cgrutt]

Note exemption for section of PL265 quoted above...

(g) provided, however, that such term does not include:
(i) any rifle, shotgun or pistol that (A) is manually operated by
bolt, pump, lever or slide action; (B) has been rendered permanently
inoperable; or (C) is an antique firearm as defined in 18 U.S.C.
921(a)(16);
(ii) a semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine
that holds more than five rounds of ammunition;
(iii) a semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds
of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine;

 

[DrBleachCocktail]

I know that on a pump shot gun I’m pretty much free to do whatever other than shortening the barrel. For a tactical shotgun or semi auto shotgun it’s kinda weird. I want the Panzer Arms AR12 Pro 12 GA but not quite sure if it’s NYS compliant.
Description:

• Semi-auto with 5 round capacity
• Synthetic stock
• 20-inch Barrel
• Steel barrel
• Two 5rd Magazines
• Adjustable sight
• Carry Handle
• Picatinny Rail

 

[cgrutt]

Not sure with detachable mag. The way law is written should be good to go as long as mag capacity is 5 rounds or less.

 

[DrBleachCocktail]

Hmm, I’ll work with it.

 

[Skinny420]

What would keep you from putting a 6 round mag or a drum in that gun? How about building an ar10 with a 12ga upper?

 

[DrBleachCocktail]

What would keep you from putting a 6 round mag or a drum in that gun? How about building an ar10 with a 12ga upper?

Nothing really but yeah I think I might do that.

 

[Chevusa]

It's perfectly clear. If it's semi-auto AND has a detachable mag it is illegal.

Pistol grips are allowed on all shotguns.

 

[spat]

Not sure with detachable mag. The way law is written should be good to go as long as mag capacity is 5 rounds or less.

Detachable mag on a semi auto shotty is no go in NYS, regardless of how neutered the other features are.

 

[cgrutt]

Detachable mag on a semi auto shotty is no go in NYS, regardless of how neutered the other features are.

Exemption would appear to allow it if mag capacity is 5 rounds or less.

 

[Clipazine]

 

[Modean]

Exemption would appear to allow it if mag capacity is 5 rounds or less.

Ok, now go find an FFL that agrees with you and will do a transfer.

 

[cgrutt]

Ok, now go find an FFL that agrees with you and will do a transfer.

Not looking to buy it just quoting the law bro. Here you go I'll quote it again since so many people seem to have a problem understanding this.

g) provided, however, that such term does not include:

(i) any rifle, shotgun or pistol that (A) is manually operated by
bolt, pump, lever or slide action; (B) has been rendered permanently
inoperable; or (C) is an antique firearm as defined in 18 U.S.C.
921(a)(16);
(ii) a semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine
that holds more than five rounds of ammunition;
(iii) a semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds
of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine;

This is straight out of PL265 definition of assault weapon. I didn't write it or make it up. Exemption clearly says "a semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine" not sure what the problem is.

 

[BDinPutnam]

That language would seem to me to ban any semiauto shotgun that can accept a detachable magazine at all, since they make magazines that hold more than 5 rounds.

 

[cgrutt]

That language would seem to me to ban any semiauto shotgun that can accept a detachable magazine at all, since they make magazines that hold more than 5 rounds.

OK they make 30 round mags for an AR but sell 10 rounders for state compliance. I mean what's from stopping you from putting a 30 round mag (standard capacity) when law says you can only put a 10 round mag in. So by that logic all ARs should be banned right, since they are capable of accepting more than 10 rounds. Right?

The law defines what an "assault weapon" is then goes on to say such term SHALL NOT INCLUDE .... a semi-auto shotgun than cannot hold more than 5 rounds in a fixed or detachable mag. This is the exclusion, by the way that allows you to have a folding stock on a Benelli M4 if it has a 5 round tube but the same gun with a 7 round tube is OK with fixed stock but deemed an "Assault Weapon" with a folding stock (and 7 round tube). I'm done with this lol...

 

[spat]

That language would seem to me to ban any semiauto shotgun that can accept a detachable magazine at all, since they make magazines that hold more than 5 rounds.

Any semiautomatic shotgun with a detachable magazine *is* an AW.

No feature counting required. There is only one compliance path for semiautomatic shotguns, and that is a fixed magazine.

 

[cgrutt]

Any semiautomatic shotgun with a detachable magazine *is* an AW.

No feature counting required. There is only one compliance path for semiautomatic shotguns, and that is a fixed magazine.

So what about a collapsible stock?

 

[spat]

So what about a collapsible stock?

Only with a fixed magazine, and a 5 rounder at that.

 

[cgrutt]

So what am I missing?

Here's the entirety of PL265.22 definition of assault weapon.

22. "Assault weapon" means
(a) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable
magazine and has at least one of the following characteristics:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of
the weapon;
(iii) a thumbhole stock;
(iv) a second handgrip or a protruding grip that can be held by the
non-trigger hand;
(v) a bayonet mount;
(vi) a flash suppressor, muzzle break, muzzle compensator, or threaded
barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor, muzzle break, or
muzzle compensator;
(vii) a grenade launcher; or
(b) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least one of the following
characteristics:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a thumbhole stock;
(iii) a second handgrip or a protruding grip that can be held by the
non-trigger hand;
(iv) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of seven rounds;
(v) an ability to accept a detachable magazine; or
(c) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable
magazine and has at least one of the following characteristics:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a thumbhole stock;
(iii) a second handgrip or a protruding grip that can be held by the
non-trigger hand;
(iv) capacity to accept an ammunition magazine that attaches to the
pistol outside of the pistol grip;
(v) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash
suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;
(vi) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely
encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm
with the non-trigger hand without being burned;
(vii) a manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is
unloaded; or
(viii) a semiautomatic version of an automatic rifle, shotgun or
firearm;
(d) a revolving cylinder shotgun;
(e) a semiautomatic rifle, a semiautomatic shotgun or a semiautomatic
pistol or weapon defined in subparagraph (v) of paragraph (e) of
subdivision twenty-two of section 265.00 of this chapter as added by
chapter one hundred eighty-nine of the laws of two thousand and
otherwise lawfully possessed pursuant to such chapter of the laws of two
thousand prior to September fourteenth, nineteen hundred ninety-four;
(f) a semiautomatic rifle, a semiautomatic shotgun or a semiautomatic
pistol or weapon defined in paragraph (a), (b) or (c) of this
subdivision, possessed prior to the date of enactment of the chapter of
the laws of two thousand thirteen which added this paragraph;
(g) provided, however, that such term does not include:
(i) any rifle, shotgun or pistol that (A) is manually operated by
bolt, pump, lever or slide action; (B) has been rendered permanently
inoperable; or (C) is an antique firearm as defined in 18 U.S.C.
921(a)(16);
(ii) a semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine
that holds more than five rounds of ammunition;
(iii) a semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds
of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine; or
(iv) a rifle, shotgun or pistol, or a replica or a duplicate thereof,
specified in Appendix A to 18 U.S.C. 922 as such weapon was manufactured
on October first, nineteen hundred ninety-three. The mere fact that a
weapon is not listed in Appendix A shall not be construed to mean that
such weapon is an assault weapon;
(v) any weapon validly registered pursuant to subdivision sixteen-a of
section 400.00 of this chapter. Such weapons shall be subject to the
provisions of paragraph (h) of this subdivision;
(vi) any firearm, rifle, or shotgun that was manufactured at least
fifty years prior to the current date, but not including replicas
thereof that is validly registered pursuant to subdivision sixteen-a of
section 400.00 of this chapter;
(h) Any weapon defined in paragraph (e) or (f) of this subdivision and
any large capacity ammunition feeding device that was legally possessed
by an individual prior to the enactment of the chapter of the laws of
two thousand thirteen which added this paragraph, may only be sold to,
exchanged with or disposed of to a purchaser authorized to possess such
weapons or to an individual or entity outside of the state provided that
any such transfer to an individual or entity outside of the state must
be reported to the entity wherein the weapon is registered within
seventy-two hours of such transfer. An individual who transfers any such
weapon or large capacity ammunition device to an individual inside New
York state or without complying with the provisions of this paragraph
shall be guilty of a class A misdemeanor unless such large capacity
ammunition feeding device, the possession of which is made illegal by
the chapter of the laws of two thousand thirteen which added this
paragraph, is transferred within one year of the effective date of the
chapter of the laws of two thousand thirteen which added this paragraph.

Section (b) lists 5 features any one of which renders semi auto shotgun an "assault weapon". Those features include a folding or colapsible stock and ability to accept a detachable mag. They are both features that bear equal weight in determining if semiauto shotgun is an assault weapon, correct?

Section (g) goes on to say that such term (i.e., "assault weapon") does not include (iii) a semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine.

So how is it a collapsible stock is allowed (exempt) with 5 round "fixed" mag but not five round detachable mag when the exemption says specifically fixed or detachable mag?

What am I missing?

 

[cgrutt]

The silence is deafening... Bueller? Bueller?

Seriously what am I missing?

 

[Marine Cpl]

You are correct Mr Grutt.

 

[cgrutt]

You are correct Mr Grutt.

 

[cgrutt]

You are correct Mr Grutt.

Would love to here what @spat has to say. No doubt I value his opinion on most things but not sure if this is on the mark. Seems pretty clear to me not sure what I'm missing. Seriously. Maybe @Eddie Gunks can chime in? I value his opinion too Heavens Forbid! Seriously seems straight forward have no clue what I'm mising.

 

[Marine Cpl]

It seems clear to me as well. Can’t get any clearer.

Assault Weapon does not include (iii) a semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine.

 

[cgrutt]

Some people here seem pretty confident that's not the case but have offered nothing substantiated. I'm not lawyer or even FFL but I can read lol...

 

[spat]

So what am I missing?

Here's the entirety of PL265.22 definition of assault weapon.



Section (b) lists 5 features any one of which renders semi auto shotgun an "assault weapon". Those features include a folding or colapsible stock and ability to accept a detachable mag. They are both features that bear equal weight in determining if semiauto shotgun is an assault weapon, correct?

Section (g) goes on to say that such term (i.e., "assault weapon") does not include (iii) a semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine.

So how is it a collapsible stock is allowed (exempt) with 5 round "fixed" mag but not five round detachable mag when the exemption says specifically fixed or detachable mag?

What am I missing?

Is there such a thing as a detachable mag that doesn't have a 5+ round version available somewhere ?

I suppose if you had a shotgun that took a detachable mag, but couldn't take a mag larger than 5 rounds it would be OK.

I'm just not sure that is a beast that exists.

And even if it does, what happens when some gun shop in Georgia starts selling modified 6 rounders for it ?

Does your previously legal shotgun become illegal because someone you don't even know exists starts selling something you've never heard of ?

Kinda like the minishells. How many shotguns can't take 5 minishells ? Does that make all semi auto shotguns AWs ?

 

[cgrutt]

B

Is there such a thing as a detachable mag that doesn't have a 5+ round version available somewhere ?

I suppose if you had a shotgun that took a detachable mag, but couldn't take a mag larger than 5 rounds it would be OK.

I'm just not sure that is a beast that exists.

And even if it does, what happens when some gun shop in Georgia starts selling modified 6 rounders for it ?

Does your previously legal shotgun become illegal because someone you don't even know exists starts selling something you've never heard of ?

Kinda like the minishells. How many shotguns can't take 5 minishells ? Does that make all semi auto shotguns AWs ?

Ok so your NY legal G19 with 10 round mag should not be legal because you can buy a 13 or 15 round mag in a free state, Or no ARs because 20 or 30 round mags are widely available throughout country. Dude I mean this with all seriousness I really respect and value your opinion but it falls apart here. The gun is legal if you have a mag with 5 round capacity or less. If you choose to put a 7 or 10 or whatever round capacity mag in it you're a felon. No different than a handgun, MSR or even a 1022 for Christ's sake. What is so different about shotgun than pistol or rifle. The law says fixed or detachable mag. I'm not inferring this its explicitly stated

 

[cgrutt]

@Chevusa @Phazer @BDinPutnam @Clipazine @Doc8404 @Modean what do you say? I quoted the ACTUAL law. What am I missing?

 

[cgrutt]

It's perfectly clear. If it's semi-auto AND has a detachable mag it is illegal.

Pistol grips are allowed on all shotguns.

Wrong. Read the law.

(Just having fun with you bro and responded how I thought you might lol). Seriously read 265 22(g) quoted above ad nauseam.