What Is Conservatism?

[Bigfoot]

What Is Conservatism?

The National Review Institute, led by the redoubtable Lindsay Craig, has been engaged in a praiseworthy project these past five years, sponsoring a “rigorous examination” of conservative principles for mid-career professionals who want a deeper understanding of conservatism. Leading the...

www.heritage.org

If the link is a TL;DR

KEY TAKEAWAYS

1.) Foremost among the transcendent values is the individual’s use of his God-given free will, whence derives his right to be free from...arbitrary force.

2.) The Conservative looks upon politics as the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.

3.) Its overriding principle is “ordered liberty,” which NRI and conservatives everywhere are determined to preserve and protect.

 

[spat]

What Is Conservatism?

The National Review Institute, led by the redoubtable Lindsay Craig, has been engaged in a praiseworthy project these past five years, sponsoring a “rigorous examination” of conservative principles for mid-career professionals who want a deeper understanding of conservatism. Leading the...

www.heritage.org

If the link is a TL;DR

KEY TAKEAWAYS

1.) Foremost among the transcendent values is the individual’s use of his God-given free will, whence derives his right to be free from...arbitrary force.

2.) The Conservative looks upon politics as the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.

3.) Its overriding principle is “ordered liberty,” which NRI and conservatives everywhere are determined to preserve and protect.




View attachment 123802

That sounds more like libertarianism than conservatism.

But the country has gone so hard left for the last few decades that they look the same.


It's like if you live in NYC, Rochester and Buffalo look like they're the same direction, but they're not.

 

[OwnTheRide]

True conservatism is libertarian.

It certainly doesn't include attempting to outlaw things like gay marriage. The Republican party is a very poor representation of conservatism.

 

[spat]

True conservatism is libertarian.

It certainly doesn't include attempting to outlaw things like gay marriage. The Republican party is a very poor representation of conservatism.

They are similar, but not the same.

Conservatism is a bit more authoritarian than libertarianism.

They're both coming from the same direction, but generally disagree about what rules are necessary to maintain society. Libertarianism thinks we can do without quite a few that conservatives think we can't.

 

[tirwin1]

True conservatism is libertarian.

It certainly doesn't include attempting to outlaw things like gay marriage.

Really? I think outlawing gay marriage is entirely consistent with the second key takeaway from the OP:

The Conservative looks upon politics as the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.

A true conservative respects the customs of the past and tends to keep them. We can certainly debate whether gay marriage should be legal. But societies throughout history have prevented it and have persecuted gay people. No one ever seems to ask why that was, other than to dismiss it as simple minded bigotry. I remember an anecdote in the book Papillon (the true story of a man that escaped the french prison outpost in French Guiana/Devil's Island). He mentioned that prisoners that engaged in gay relationships tended to focus on that and were lost in terms of any other endeavor like escaping (which was his primary drive). So why were gays persecuted for so long in so many cultures? Was it simply because they were different, or was open tolerance of gays something that impacted the social order?

For the record, I am indifferent/leaning towards legalizing gay marriage. My pet peeve is with how it is legalized. In this country, it should be through legislative action and not simply a decree by some judge.

 

[fresch]

It is due to not knowing if it is ok to bend over to pick up something, without having to defend yourself.
Really it is because the human race can't grow if slot c try to join with slot c and if tab d with d; it only works with d with c.

 

[libertysnake]

Honestly, we need to get past labels and start focusing on issues and discussion. People like to lump opinions into neat little categories, but there is too much nuance to it. Even among forum members here, of which the overwhelming majority vaguely identify are "conservative," we all have differing levels of opinions on various topics.

Political affiliation should only be a super rough indicator of someone's leaning, but not in any way tell you much more than that.

 

[GOPerfect]

Honestly, we need to get past labels and start focusing on issues and discussion. People like to lump opinions into neat little categories, but there is too much nuance to it. Even among forum members here, of which the overwhelming majority vaguely identify are "conservative," we all have differing levels of opinions on various topics.

Political affiliation should only be a super rough indicator of someone's leaning, but not in any way tell you much more than that.

I have spoken about labels a great deal on this forum and elsewhere.

Labels are what the true issue is in America.

All the different skin tones in front of American.

All the different religions put in front of America.

All of the different types of sexual deviance put in front of the word American, and now all of this...

There are near no true Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, Liberals or Conservatives any more.

Old terms trying to be used in today's world.

Core values and morals and ethics are the key to success. Not these outdated words, terms and phrases.

 

[libertysnake]

I have spoken about labels a great deal on this forum and elsewhere.

Labels are what the true issue is in America.

All the different skin tones in front of American.

All the different religions put in front of America.

All of the different types of sexual deviance put in front of the word American, and now all of this...

There are near no true Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, Liberals or Conservatives any more.

Old terms trying to be used in today's world.

Core values and morals and ethics are the key to success. Not these outdated words, terms and phrases.

Labels are what got us into this mess. However, it makes sense when you think about it.

People want an agon. They want a war to fight. Labels make that easy. Sound bytes make that easy. It's easier to get people worked up when you paint the other side with a broad brush.

Breaking down labels is going to be a big part of breaking down the power of the "powers that be" to manipulate people.

 

[GOPerfect]

Labels are what got us into this mess. However, it makes sense when you think about it.

People want an agon. They want a war to fight. Labels make that easy. Sound bytes make that easy. It's easier to get people worked up when you paint the other side with a broad brush.

Breaking down labels is going to be a big part of breaking down the power of the "powers that be" to manipulate people.

Spot on.

 

[ProgSpear]

The “label-makers” reside in academia, and have been defining the terms since Woodrow Wilson was in office. We’re a little late to the party to start “breaking down labels”. The Gramscian long march has worked brilliantly.

 

[prambo]

The “label-makers” reside in academia, and have been defining the terms since Woodrow Wilson was in office. We’re a little late to the party to start “breaking down labels”. The Gramscian long march has worked brilliantly.

^^^^^^^^
Exactly. You can't stop "labelling" behavior, or statism of any ilk, in a nation that's moved beyond the tipping point into societal insanity.

As a few leftist trolls here make patently obvious - there is no intelligent reasoning to be had there, regardless of how hard you try. You can be nice or nasty about it - it makes no difference. This is why I add obvious leftist members to my "Ignore" list - I have no use for them or listening to the constant drivel.

There is no common ground, no "national fabric", as it were. And I didn't work to destroy that common ground - the virulent statists did. They can reap what they've sown.

Thus, there can be no compromise - although compromise with whatever nebulous ideology "the left" (for want of a better term - I like neo-Nazi) is, just means "their way or the gulag".

 

[spat]

Labels are what got us into this mess. However, it makes sense when you think about it.

People want an agon. They want a war to fight. Labels make that easy. Sound bytes make that easy. It's easier to get people worked up when you paint the other side with a broad brush.

Breaking down labels is going to be a big part of breaking down the power of the "powers that be" to manipulate people.

Divide and conquer has been the gold standard in war and politics for millenia.


Because it works.

So, if you are confused about who your true enemy is, look at who is trying to divide you.

 

[OwnTheRide]

They are similar, but not the same.

Conservatism is a bit more authoritarian than libertarianism.

They're both coming from the same direction, but generally disagree about what rules are necessary to maintain society. Libertarianism thinks we can do without quite a few that conservatives think we can't.

Really? I think outlawing gay marriage is entirely consistent with the second key takeaway from the OP:

The Conservative looks upon politics as the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.

A true conservative respects the customs of the past and tends to keep them. We can certainly debate whether gay marriage should be legal. But societies throughout history have prevented it and have persecuted gay people. No one ever seems to ask why that was, other than to dismiss it as simple minded bigotry. I remember an anecdote in the book Papillon (the true story of a man that escaped the french prison outpost in French Guiana/Devil's Island). He mentioned that prisoners that engaged in gay relationships tended to focus on that and were lost in terms of any other endeavor like escaping (which was his primary drive). So why were gays persecuted for so long in so many cultures? Was it simply because they were different, or was open tolerance of gays something that impacted the social order?

For the record, I am indifferent/leaning towards legalizing gay marriage. My pet peeve is with how it is legalized. In this country, it should be through legislative action and not simply a decree by some judge.

Not disagreeing with you guys (well, I think tirwin1 is really stretching with his "maintaining social order" justification)... but I think you're arguing against a point I was expressly not making. I attempted, poorly, to communicate this via a lack of capitalization and the use of italics:

True conservatism is libertarian.

That was intended to read more along the way you'd read "real men don't do X." Not using the literal definitions here.