Whats the better grain for 9mm, USPSA and IDPA

[john156cm]

So many opinions out there but... Currently running your typical 115 gr FMJ looks like I can get 124 gr for the same cost ( sorry if I'm off on weight). Mail order averaging around 17 cents a round and free shipping. My question, Is there a noticeable difference in the heavier grain? I was running a 3rd gen glock 19. Now running a sig 320 x5 and the sig 365 with Syntech. Cant justify reloading at this early stage.

 

[Airborneguy]

If you’re shooting any appreciable amount of rounds per month, that right there is your justification. Your price per round will be half that or less.

 

[john156cm]

If you’re shooting any appreciable amount of rounds per month, that right there is your justification. Your price per round will be half that or less.

Right now it’s hit or miss last month about 600 rounds. This month maybe 200. It’s not consistent yet because of work, but hopefully it will change soon. I figured by the time I bought all the equipment and supplies it would take forever to gain any savings lol

 

[LMS]

buy as heavy a bullet as you can. I found 147's for 9mm to be the best for me for USPSA - less recoil allows you to get the sights back on target quicker for the second shot. I didn't notice much difference between 115 and 124, but huge difference going to 147.

 

[oc shooter]

not sure about Glocks but Beretta 92 series where meant to run 124 gr nato thats what there sighted in for . and it seems as though that's where there point of impact is. I run whatever is cheapest and adjust my point of aim.

 

[john156cm]

buy as heavy a bullet as you can. I found 147's for 9mm to be the best for me for USPSA - less recoil allows you to get the sights back on target quicker for the second shot. I didn't notice much difference between 115 and 124, but huge difference going to 147.

That explains why the price is the same for 124 grain then.

 

[john156cm]

not sure about Glocks but Beretta 92 series where meant to run 124 gr nato thats what there sighted in for . and it seems as though that's where there point of impact is. I run whatever is cheapest and adjust my point of aim.

Thats another point I never thought about. On what the gun was originally set up with, and that’s what’s great about forums. Thanks

 

[Podmonkey]

Hmnnn, I have always found the 115gr standard velocity loads to be the lightest recoiling. Then again my only experience with subsonic 147 grainers is with the HST standard pressure 147gr and that is known to be a hot, just barely subsonic load. Average velocities for those average just over 1000fps. Its not as easy to find 147gr FMJ range ammo though whereas standard pressure 115gr FMJ is everywhere and very soft shooting.

I like to train with the Winchester white box 124gr NATO load as it feels the same to me as 124gr +P defensive ammo.

 

[71velle]

A friend who shoots USPSA is reloading geek and uses 147 grain. He claims best accuracy and with the flat points he can see the holes in the tagets easily so he can see the misses better.

BTW, here is like no cost savings in 9mm so reloading it is for better custom ammo.

 

[john156cm]

Hmnnn, I have always found the 115gr standard velocity loads to be the lightest recoiling. Then again my only experience with subsonic 147 grainers is with the HST standard pressure 147gr and that is known to be a hot, just barely subsonic load. Average velocities for those average just over 1000fps. Its not as easy to find 147gr FMJ range ammo though whereas standard pressure 115gr FMJ is everywhere and very soft shooting.

I like to train with the Winchester white box 124gr NATO load as it feels the same to me as 124gr +P defensive ammo.

I’m really starting to find the 115 will suit my needs for now. Especially at 17 cents a round and free shipping

 

[john156cm]

A friend who shoots USPSA is reloading geek and uses 147 grain. He claims best accuracy and with the flat points he can see the holes in the tagets easily so he can see the misses better.

BTW, here is like no cost savings in 9mm so reloading it is for better custom ammo.

Well that explains why I can see some shots indoors and can’t see mine lol
And now need to see if I can find flat instead of the typical point I currently have. Great answer to reloading too!

 

[Airborneguy]

BTW, here is like no cost savings in 9mm so reloading it is for better custom ammo.

I use the Xtreme plated bullets, the cheapest primers and powder in bulk. There is definitely savings to be had, especially at volume. Not to mention getting bulk ammo in NY is tough now, especially here in the city. So for us down here, reloading is a must unless you barely ever shoot.

 

[71velle]

I use the Xtreme plated bullets, the cheapest primers and powder in bulk. There is definitely savings to be had, especially at volume. Not to mention getting bulk ammo in NY is tough now, especially here in the city. So for us down here, reloading is a must unless you barely ever shoot.

well maybe I cant find components as cheep as you. My math:
Bullets 8 cents
primers 3 cents
powder 3 cents
So I figure about 14 cents per round and can buy for 17 cents per round. So by the time I clean the brass and do the work its hard to justify the time. Now in fairness my setup is not that fast I can only make 300 round an hour, so it takes me about 4 hours to save $30 per case of ammo. My friends that have the dillon 650s with case feeders a do 1000 rounds in about 2 hours so they can make about $15 an hour reloading 9mm.

To set up a dillon 650 is about $1000 so it would take over 33,000 rounds to pay for the equipment and not including the time that it took to setup the machine and make the ammo.

 

[john156cm]

I use the Xtreme plated bullets, the cheapest primers and powder in bulk. There is definitely savings to be had, especially at volume. Not to mention getting bulk ammo in NY is tough now, especially here in the city. So for us down here, reloading is a must unless you barely ever shoot.

Good point, and not to bad on the western part of ny

 

[john156cm]

well maybe I cant find components as cheep as you. My math:
Bullets 8 cents
primers 3 cents
powder 3 cents
So I figure about 14 cents per round and can buy for 17 cents per round. So by the time I clean the brass and do the work its hard to justify the time. Now in fairness my setup is not that fast I can only make 300 round an hour, so it takes me about 4 hours to save $30 per case of ammo. My friends that have the dillon 650s with case feeders a do 1000 rounds in about 2 hours so they can make about $15 an hour reloading 9mm.

To set up a dillon 650 is about $1000 so it would take over 33,000 rounds to pay for the equipment and not including the time that it took to setup the machine and make the ammo.

Wow, not enough cost savings for me to even start that adventure!

 

[tapper3]

I use the Xtreme plated bullets, the cheapest primers and powder in bulk. There is definitely savings to be had, especially at volume. Not to mention getting bulk ammo in NY is tough now, especially here in the city. So for us down here, reloading is a must unless you barely ever shoot.

@Airborneguy = you have had better luck than me with Xtreme 9mm's obviously.

I started reloading 9mm with jacketed bullets back in the stone ages. Used several brands with good results. I, too, came to like the 147 grain for USPSA. A heavier bullet gives me more of a "push" recoil feeling rather than a "snap". Which was more noticeable with a top heavy gun like a Glock.

I then moved on to .40 and pretty much put the 9mm on the shelf. I played with lead, coated, jacketed and eventually moved to Xtreme bullets for the cost and had great luck with them. Last year I started shooting the 9 again and bought some 124 grain Xtremes for that just to dick around with.

Horrible. Hits all over the map. First from my normal stance and then from a sandbagged rest. I was freaking out. I thought it was a gun (lock-up?) problem it was so bad.

Finally I did a test of 1 mag of the reloads vs. 3 mags of various FMJ factory and it was the reloads. Ran them over the chronograph and they were pretty consistent so that told me the cartridges were coming out the same. Crimp was good. Finally got out the micrometer and there were variances in the diameters. I heard elsewhere that quality was not good with Xtreme and the caliber mentioned was always 9mm.

Maybe it was just that run of that size. I don't know. But my experience with their .40 bullets was great while the 124 grain 9mm bullets were terrible. One note: I used the heavy plating bullets for the .40 but did not for the 9. Maybe that was the issue. Dunno. I didn't chase it any farther.

 

[MilesTeg]

Just as a note scored 115gr 9mm for $56 1000 on black Friday. If my guns like them you can bet I will buy a few cases next year. Oh and cases were cheaper than that.

 

[MilesTeg]

I will add if you are going to just load 9mm then reloading doesnt make much sense money wise. 40 S&W has a pretty big savings. 45ACP has a bigger savings. Any of the revolver cartridges can save you a lot also. Ridley rounds minus 5.56 save you a ton of money.

 

[Airborneguy]

I’ve always rejected the “time is money” argument, especially in regards to hobbies.

Firstly, unless I am choosing to forgo a paid activity, then that time is not “money”.

Secondly, we should enjoy hobbies. When it comes to reloading for hobby as opposed to sale, you’re not “saving” money regardless. You’re only saving in as much as your final cost differs from what you’d be spending to buy finished ammo on the market. In my case, I’m also “saving” the hassle of obtaining ammo in general which is tough to do living in NYC.

This was a common argument in the home brewing community when I was a big homebrewer. Some guys drove themselves (and others) nuts trying to prove that due to the time factor you weren’t ever savings money even if a 5 gallon batch of a particular clone resulted in a savings of close to $100 over buying that beer in 6 packs.

Time is money when a business is creating salable product at inefficient scales. The concept does not apply to home hobbiests unless they’re obsessed enough to overlook actual money-making opportunities to instead “play” at their hobbies. Even then, a psychological argument can be made that fun down time benefits the time spent actually working a job.

 

[john156cm]

@Airborneguy = you have had better luck than me with Xtreme 9mm's obviously.

I started reloading 9mm with jacketed bullets back in the stone ages. Used several brands with good results. I, too, came to like the 147 grain for USPSA. A heavier bullet gives me more of a "push" recoil feeling rather than a "snap". Which was more noticeable with a top heavy gun like a Glock.

I then moved on to .40 and pretty much put the 9mm on the shelf. I played with lead, coated, jacketed and eventually moved to Xtreme bullets for the cost and had great luck with them. Last year I started shooting the 9 again and bought some 124 grain Xtremes for that just to dick around with.

Horrible. Hits all over the map. First from my normal stance and then from a sandbagged rest. I was freaking out. I thought it was a gun (lock-up?) problem it was so bad.

Finally I did a test of 1 mag of the reloads vs. 3 mags of various FMJ factory and it was the reloads. Ran them over the chronograph and they were pretty consistent so that told me the cartridges were coming out the same. Crimp was good. Finally got out the micrometer and there were variances in the diameters. I heard elsewhere that quality was not good with Xtreme and the caliber mentioned was always 9mm.

Maybe it was just that run of that size. I don't know. But my experience with their .40 bullets was great while the 124 grain 9mm bullets were terrible. One note: I used the heavy plating bullets for the .40 but did not for the 9. Maybe that was the issue. Dunno. I didn't chase it any farther.

Good reading, my grouping is kinda all over at least using my g19 and 115gr federal FMJ round nose. Most likely me shooting to fast but need to get to the range and shoot with out a timer and see where I'm at. Then see how both Sigs do.

 

[john156cm]

Just as a note scored 115gr 9mm for $56 1000 on black Friday. If my guns like them you can bet I will buy a few cases next year. Oh and cases were cheaper than that.

Wow at that price should of cleaned them out lol

 

[john156cm]

I will add if you are going to just load 9mm then reloading doesnt make much sense money wise. 40 S&W has a pretty big savings. 45ACP has a bigger savings. Any of the revolver cartridges can save you a lot also. Ridley rounds minus 5.56 save you a ton of money.

I was gonna try .40 for competition but can't drop the mag very quickly on the H&K and trying different calibers looked like it was gonna get costly. Between steel and USPSA

 

[john156cm]

I’ve always rejected the “time is money” argument, especially in regards to hobbies.

Firstly, unless I am choosing to forgo a paid activity, then that time is not “money”.

Secondly, we should enjoy hobbies. When it comes to reloading for hobby as opposed to sale, you’re not “saving” money regardless. You’re only saving in as much as your final cost differs from what you’d be spending to buy finished ammo on the market. In my case, I’m also “saving” the hassle of obtaining ammo in general which is tough to do living in NYC.

This was a common argument in the home brewing community when I was a big homebrewer. Some guys drove themselves (and others) nuts trying to prove that due to the time factor you weren’t ever savings money even if a 5 gallon batch of a particular clone resulted in a savings of close to $100 over buying that beer in 6 packs.

Time is money when a business is creating salable product at inefficient scales. The concept does not apply to home hobbiests unless they’re obsessed enough to overlook actual money-making opportunities to instead “play” at their hobbies. Even then, a psychological argument can be made that fun down time benefits the time spent actually working a job.

Very good point, for me I would have to say too costly to reload looking at investment and just time consumption. Being more of just a hobbiest in the sport and not forgoing a career.

 

[Airborneguy]

I’ve actually been reloading on and off all day. I’m going to the range tomorrow. Wanted to polish off what I have left of .45 and 9mm 115gn bullets (I’m switching to 124gn).

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Are you able to load whatever you want in competitions? I know you don't reload but if you ever do why not go even lower? If the name of the game is less recoil then why not go extreme and get under 115 grains? You can get some really low weight bullets for 9mm that aren't even specialty and very cheap. A reliable powder puff load is part of being a champ no?

 

[john156cm]

Are you able to load whatever you want in competitions? I know you don't reload but if you ever do why not go even lower? If the name of the game is less recoil then why not go extreme and get under 115 grains? You can get some really low weight bullets for 9mm that aren't even specialty and very cheap. A reliable powder puff load is part of being a champ no?

I know there are restrictions but didn't bother once I found out the 115gr was fine to use. I think once my skills are better, I'm sure I can venture into trimming where I can lol

 

[Eddie Gunks]

well maybe I cant find components as cheep as you. My math:
Bullets 8 cents
primers 3 cents
powder 3 cents
So I figure about 14 cents per round and can buy for 17 cents per round. So by the time I clean the brass and do the work its hard to justify the time. Now in fairness my setup is not that fast I can only make 300 round an hour, so it takes me about 4 hours to save $30 per case of ammo. My friends that have the dillon 650s with case feeders a do 1000 rounds in about 2 hours so they can make about $15 an hour reloading 9mm.

To set up a dillon 650 is about $1000 so it would take over 33,000 rounds to pay for the equipment and not including the time that it took to setup the machine and make the ammo.

3 cents in powder? Check your math. I cant remmeber my 9mm load data but i was making 45 ammo and getting 2000 rounds per pound! That is a fraction on a cent. Saving 2-2.5 cents per round on powder and then buying right on projectiles could save you 3-5 cents per. So that could put you down closer to $.09-10.

I could make 100 rounds of ammo on my 650 in 6 min! (Obviously all set up and ready to go).

I tried all the loads, i am a big guy. I can handle full power 9mm loads. I found it was easier to buy 115 grain loaded ammo. The shoot flatter. And i get better ballistics out of my MPX. so when inwas running my MPX and a pistol i did not have to keep track of different ammo.

9mm recoil was NOT the factor in my shooting results. I narrowed down the issues with my performance........it was ALWAYS the loose connection between the gun and the ground!

 

[LMS]

Are you able to load whatever you want in competitions? I know you don't reload but if you ever do why not go even lower? If the name of the game is less recoil then why not go extreme and get under 115 grains? You can get some really low weight bullets for 9mm that aren't even specialty and very cheap. A reliable powder puff load is part of being a champ no?

In USPSA, you must meet minimum power factor numbers or you'll get penalized. The guys that are really into it tune their loads as a science. And, to be honest, a local match is not going to chrono your loads, but the bigger matches do. Also, you need to knock steel plates and poppers down, so if your loads are too light you might need to take multiple shots to do that.

 

[LMS]

Here is an informative post by a guy reloading .40 using a Dillon 650 and some necessary accessories.

My 650 setup itemized

A motivated person could plug numbers in for other calibers. As may have said here and in other forums, unless you need a special load for 9mm (to make major power factor or some other thing you are trying to accomplish), you'd need to shoot a lot of 9mm to make reloading work if only looking at the financial aspects. But as @Airborneguy posted, sometimes there's more to it than that.

 

[john156cm]

Here is an informative post by a guy reloading .40 using a Dillon 650 and some necessary accessories.

My 650 setup itemized

A motivated person could plug numbers in for other calibers. As may have said here and in other forums, unless you need a special load for 9mm (to make major power factor or some other thing you are trying to accomplish), you'd need to shoot a lot of 9mm to make reloading work if only looking at the financial aspects. But as @Airborneguy posted, sometimes there's more to it than that.

Well said, I couldn't think of the proper terminology, and yes power factor was what I couldn't remember lol. The 115 gr had no issues knocking targets down so I thought I would be ok with that, and sure it would chrono ok. But just curious if I changed loads will it be a noticeable difference in terms of grouping. If I jumped up to the .40 then I would dial that load in by doing my own reloads just to score better. Again right now I am just dabbling in the sport.