Why Can’t NYC Issue Full Carry To It’s Residents?

[DrBleachCocktail]

I just wanted to make a discussion and find common ground to a question that I’ve been thinking about lately. We all can agree that there’s always been crime in NYC. No matter what neighborhood you live in, some zones are hotter than others. If crime is relevant and increase every year and police tension rises in certain communities. Why not issue the residents full carry permits instead? Why make it damn near impossible to even get a “On premise carry”?

 

[Criticalt]

Because guns are dangerous.

 

[Calculon]

The simple answer is CONTROL. The blue state libs want people disarmed so that they are 1) dependent on the state to protect them, and 2) that the people don’t have the means to remove them from office when they abandon the Constitutional principles they are entrusted with upholding.

The current defund police movement is about allowing chaos to further divide the populace and keep us fighting each other while they consolidate more power and more control.

Once you accept the reality that politicians don’t care about their constituents beyond pandering for the votes that keep them on the gravy train, it’s easy to see why they pass laws prohibiting or curtailing natural rights. What we the people do about it is another question.

 

[DrBleachCocktail]

Because guns are dangerous.

That’s a invalid argument. Everything is dangerous.

 

[Criticalt]

That’s a invalid argument. Everything is dangerous.

But thats the reason they dont allow it.

 

[DrBleachCocktail]

The simple answer is CONTROL. The blue state libs want people disarmed so that they are 1) dependent on the state to protect them, and 2) that the people don’t have the means to remove them from office when they abandon the Constitutional principles they are entrusted with upholding.

The current defund police movement is about allowing chaos to further divide the populace and keep us fighting each other while they consolidate more power and more control.

Once you accept the reality that politicians don’t care about their constituents beyond pandering for the votes that keep them on the gravy train, it’s easy to see why they pass laws prohibiting or curtailing natural rights. What we the people do about it is another question.

I mean I understand the concept of “high population in condense area” but that is also a invalid argument. I know politicians only care about getting their votes and moving up within the chain of power but you’d rather risk lives just for financial gain and create peasants? The thought of trading rights for temporary security is the most scariest idea.

 

[DrBleachCocktail]

But thats the reason they dont allow it.

Well I can name 100+ potential reasons why it isn’t allowed but again still invalid due to the fact that firearms are still prohibited in such area (Where crime increases by the year) but yet there’s no line of defense for self defense. The NY castle doctrine is pretty much ehh. You got protesters creating chaos and people are fleeing. You only can mass protest if it fits the mayor and Governor agenda which give him brownie points for re-election.

 

[spat]

I just wanted to make a discussion and find common ground to a question that I’ve been thinking about lately. We all can agree that there’s always been crime in NYC. No matter what neighborhood you live in, some zones are hotter than others. If crime is relevant and increase every year and police tension rises in certain communities. Why not issue the residents full carry permits instead? Why make it damn near impossible to even get a “On premise carry”?

They absolutely can.

They do not want to.

And they are smart enough not to hassle anyone with the resources and determination to seriously fight them on it.

 

[DrBleachCocktail]

They absolutely can.

They do not want to.

And they are smart enough not to hassle anyone with the resources and determination to seriously fight them on it.

I mean it’s kinda bias also. A rich person who’s staying in NYC for 5 months can pretty much get a full carry CCW in a week compared to the average Joe who lived there for 20 years who could never even be in the presence of a NYC full carry.

 

[spat]

I mean it’s kinda bias also. A rich person who’s staying in NYC for 5 months can pretty much get a full carry CCW in a week compared to the average Joe who lived there for 20 years who could never even be in the presence of a NYC full carry.

One of them can afford the lawyers.

The last thing any of these jurisdictions want to do is get someone who can throw $150k worth of lawyers at the problem just because he's pissed off.

They have been playing their games for a long time, they don’t want to risk getting it all shut down. That’s why everything gets resolved real quick when it looks like SCOTUS might get involved.

They really abuse the crap out of "we gave him the permit so he no longer has standing to sue".

Someone needs to ask for the whole shebang instead if just "give me my permit please". If you claim that the whole permit process is an infringement, then they can't just issue one to make the whole case go away after you've spent hundreds of thousands to get there.

 

[DrBleachCocktail]

One of them can afford the lawyers.

The last thing any of these jurisdictions want to do is get someone who can throw $150k worth of lawyers at the problem just because he's pissed off.

They have been playing their games for a long time, they don’t want to risk getting it all shut down. That’s why everything gets resolved real quick when it looks like SCOTUS might get involved.

They really abuse the crap out of "we gave him the permit so he no longer has standing to sue".

Someone needs to ask for the whole shebang instead if just "give me my permit please". If you claim that the whole permit process is an infringement, then they can't just issue one to make the whole case go away after you've spent hundreds of thousands to get there.

Yeah the whole permit process needs to get shut down because people will abuse it and deny who ever they want. CA and NY are the living proof of that.

 

[dsdmmat]

It is about control and dependence. If you are able to defend yourself you won’t need the government to do it for you. If you don’t have to rely on the government you will begin to question their reason for existence and the reason your taxes are so high.
Cannot have the serfs thinking thoughts which are not approved by the system.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Years ago, NYC used to issue restricted licenses like other counties. They got rid of them and now only issue Premises licenses because people were caught carrying anyway.

 

[Calculon]

I mean I understand the concept of “high population in condense area” but that is also a invalid argument. I know politicians only care about getting their votes and moving up within the chain of power but you’d rather risk lives just for financial gain and create peasants? The thought of trading rights for temporary security is the most scariest idea.

Nowhere in my response did I mention “high population in condense area”or that I supported risking lives for financial gain so I’m not sure where you’re going with that.

And yes New Yorkistan politicians would like nothing more than to create a state of peasants while they live like royalty. The failure of trading rights for security is probably only slightly secondary to the abject failure of socialism/communism throughout time.

 

[Deplorable Me]

NYC government is essentially criminal and corrupt. The laws are part of systemic discrimination that was ingrained generations ago.

 

[Criticalt]

Well I can name 100+ potential reasons why it isn’t allowed but again still invalid due to the fact that firearms are still prohibited in such area (Where crime increases by the year) but yet there’s no line of defense for self defense. The NY castle doctrine is pretty much ehh. You got protesters creating chaos and people are fleeing. You only can mass protest if it fits the mayor and Governor agenda which give him brownie points for re-election.

Oh, I agree
But the reason usually used when asked this question is some form of "guns are dangerous".
Of course in my first post I was being sarcastic but that is the anti gunners first response.
Then comes public saftey, officer saftey, its for the children, just call 911, mental health, NRA fear mongering, nobody needs 10 bullets....yada, yada, yada.......but it always boils down to guns are dangerous.

 

[SuffolkArms]

What about the SHALL ISSUE license to “(g) have, possess, collect and carry antique pistols” which does not require any “good cause” requirement? How come nobody has submitted for such a shall-issue license and taken this to court in NYC or the lower downstate counties?

 

[Chevusa]

The courts have ruled that the more populated an area, the more regulations may be in place to protect the population. They said the licensing of firearms is tied directly to public safety and if anyone could get an unrestricted permit, it would render the intent of the law useless and if people carried anywhere anytime and for any reason on a restricted permit, that action would be absurd.

Good luck. Getting this in front of SCOTUS is your only hope.

 

[spat]

The courts have ruled that the more populated an area, the more regulations may be in place to protect the population. They said the licensing of firearms is tied directly to public safety and if anyone could get an unrestricted permit, it would render the intent of the law useless and if people carried anywhere anytime and for any reason on a restricted permit, that action would be absurd.

Good luck. Getting this in front of SCOTUS is your only hope.

Your summary of the NYS attitude should be all that's necessary to strike down all of those laws.

The justifications you list are the exact reasons they are unconstitutional.

The idea that people should be treated differently under the law because they live in a higher density area is repugnant to the constitution.

If the intent of your law is thwarted if anyone can be granted the license, that is sufficient proof in itself that your licensing scheme is unconstitutional.

And that's *without* even involving the 2A.

 

[Chevusa]

Your summary of the NYS attitude should be all that's necessary to strike down all of those laws.

The justifications you list are the exact reasons they are unconstitutional.

The idea that people should be treated differently under the law because they live in a higher density area is repugnant to the constitution.

If the intent of your law is thwarted if anyone can be granted the license, that is sufficient proof in itself that your licensing scheme is unconstitutional.

And that's *without* even involving the 2A.

Just telling him the way it is.

Write to Amy.

 

[tc556guy]

I just wanted to make a discussion and find common ground to a question that I’ve been thinking about lately. We all can agree that there’s always been crime in NYC. No matter what neighborhood you live in, some zones are hotter than others. If crime is relevant and increase every year and police tension rises in certain communities. Why not issue the residents full carry permits instead? Why make it damn near impossible to even get a “On premise carry”?

They don't believe the average citizen needs firearms for self defense. They are a century into being brainwashed that only police need to carry a handgun, and anyone with a handgun who is not law enforcement is surely a criminal.

 

[Darth]

People are confusing administrative restrictions that some upstate counties impose with NYCs premise permits.

They have nothing to do with each other.

 

[DrBleachCocktail]

People are confusing administrative restrictions that some upstate counties impose with NYCs premise permits.

They have nothing to do with each other.

But they’re the same thing literally.

 

[Darth]

But they’re the same thing literally.

Except one of a penal law designation and one has nothing to do with the law.

 

[DrBleachCocktail]

Except one of a penal law designation and one has nothing to do with the law.

NYC can go to range and home. Restricted counties do the same. Violate those terms and you’ll be suspended. Violate them a few more times and bye bye. This is gun control at its finest.

 

[Darth]

NYC can go to range and home. Restricted counties do the same. Violate those terms and you’ll be suspended. Violate them a few more times and bye bye. This is gun control at its finest.

Except, again, no.

Upstate administrative restrictions on carry permits have nothing to do with the law. It is in no way illegal to ignore them.

NYC premise licenses are not carry permits.

 

[Criticalt]

Except, again, no.

Upstate administrative restrictions on carry permits have nothing to do with the law. It is in no way illegal to ignore them.

NYC premise licenses are not carry permits.

The problem is that many upstate county judges will suspend or revoke your PP if you violate one of their restrictions....making it a defacto law. You get punished for commiting the "crime" of disrespecting a judge.
Absolute unconstitutional bullshit.....but, ask someone who has been revoked if it matters to them that its a "rule" not a "law".
The only difference, and its a HUGE one, to a revokee is that disobeying a judges restrictions wont go on your record as a crime. Try telling the judge its not a crime....he will say, "ok, you are STILL revoked for life". And his decicion is legal in NYS and stands until you bring it through NYs liberal courts. Why does it matter if its a law or not? You are LEGALLY denied carrying a handgun law or not. You can say, "well, its not a law until youre blue in the face, you STILL lost your permit."
I have no idea how often someone is revoked for carrying out of restrictions but I know of 1 guy who lost his permit in about 2007 for carrying consealed in his car against Erie County restrictions. He was revoked and STILL cannot reapply. Thats 13 years of having his rights stolen. He works 3rd shift at a childrens home and has no money for a lengthy court battle. He just takes it.

 

[GOYABEAN]

I just wanted to make a discussion and find common ground to a question that I’ve been thinking about lately. We all can agree that there’s always been crime in NYC. No matter what neighborhood you live in, some zones are hotter than others. If crime is relevant and increase every year and police tension rises in certain communities. Why not issue the residents full carry permits instead? Why make it damn near impossible to even get a “On premise carry”?

That's talk guns are bad

 

[Darth]

The problem is that many upstate county judges will suspend or revoke your PP if you violate one of their restrictions....making it a defacto law.

Do you have a single example of this? If not, fearmongering.

 

[Robin]

Cuz you are not being governed, you are ruled, a government sickness more lethal than conus and spreading out of that fetid rotten apple at an alarming rate.
Robin