spat
.950 JDJ
Maybe, but you don't plan for the average encounter, you plan for a bad one.
You don't build your roof to handle an average snow storm, you built it to handle a 50 year storm.
Why would a fixed mag be considered a range toy?
- Thread starter Jchrisls
- Start date
You don't build your roof to handle an average snow storm, you built it to handle a 50 year storm.
Oh trust me thats what im saying.. thats why I said i hate the fudd lore of 3-5 shots are all you need for self defense encounters
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
The thought of limiting the nr. of rounds and reload speed for any critical/defensive duty is absurd.
Modern designs are carefully though to maximize A) Firepower (nr. of rounds) B) easy reloads C) weight/ergonomics.
Othewise a tube fed lever action gun would be as popular as a small modern semiautomatic pistol with 18rds or a
carbine with 30 rounds magazines.
But the fact is they are not. Even a pump action takes a back seat.
Are they better than nothing? you bet.
They might be also better for a re-enhancement of a wild west Western style fight.
Also a well setup bolt action with magazines is actually faster than a pump or tube fed lever or any other compliant "invention"
Modern designs are carefully though to maximize A) Firepower (nr. of rounds) B) easy reloads C) weight/ergonomics.
Othewise a tube fed lever action gun would be as popular as a small modern semiautomatic pistol with 18rds or a
carbine with 30 rounds magazines.
But the fact is they are not. Even a pump action takes a back seat.
Are they better than nothing? you bet.
They might be also better for a re-enhancement of a wild west Western style fight.
Also a well setup bolt action with magazines is actually faster than a pump or tube fed lever or any other compliant "invention"
Vapor
.308 Win
There are magazine fed pump action rifles. I find those vastly superior to any bolt action.
I have always found working a bolt action quickly to be less efficient. Its usually a motion to lift/unlock the bolt, run the ejection/extraction cycle, then the feeding, and re-locking. I find mentally just back and forth without breaking cheek weld or moving the firing hand much more efficient.
A lever isn't quite as good as a pump, but still more efficient for me than a bolt gun. Mostly I think for not breaking cheek weld. I know one can run a bolt ac such, but I don't find it comfortable.
Having owned 3 sks rifles...well, I had good stripper clips. I'm talking Czech BXNs. They fed great. No matter how I carried them however, rounds always came out. Leaving me with 8-9 rounds. I also had an issue not being able to top off or do a tactical reload. I supposed one could dump the floor plate.
Anwyay, I like mag fed semi-autos just fine.
I have always found working a bolt action quickly to be less efficient. Its usually a motion to lift/unlock the bolt, run the ejection/extraction cycle, then the feeding, and re-locking. I find mentally just back and forth without breaking cheek weld or moving the firing hand much more efficient.
A lever isn't quite as good as a pump, but still more efficient for me than a bolt gun. Mostly I think for not breaking cheek weld. I know one can run a bolt ac such, but I don't find it comfortable.
Having owned 3 sks rifles...well, I had good stripper clips. I'm talking Czech BXNs. They fed great. No matter how I carried them however, rounds always came out. Leaving me with 8-9 rounds. I also had an issue not being able to top off or do a tactical reload. I supposed one could dump the floor plate.
Anwyay, I like mag fed semi-autos just fine.
Fightlight SCR > bolt action with mags
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
The Troy PAR is a pump action rifle. I do not know why it never took off here in NY for those that value features over function. NutNfancy did a review on it and gave it a thumbs up and he lives in a free state. In one part of the video, he rapid fires it and was able to put quite a bit of lead down range. Almost as fast as a semi. Not double tap fast but pretty darned fast.
For home defense, something like that would work pretty well. No different than a pump shotgun and you wouldn’t have to explain legalities about a fixed mag AR after it’s confiscated by the police after the shooting.
For home defense, something like that would work pretty well. No different than a pump shotgun and you wouldn’t have to explain legalities about a fixed mag AR after it’s confiscated by the police after the shooting.
I have built 3 AR's in the last 15 years with dedicated mags. 204 w/5rnd mag,,,6.8 w/5rnd mag,,,223 w/5rnd mag
I dont need these guns for home defense, I have others and more than one will be used.
I use them for hunting. 204 coyote,,,,,6.8 for deer,,,,,,223 for nothing
All my AR's have retractable stocks, pistol grips and muzzle brakes
How many forum members in this post have used their AR's to defend their family, home or personal property. When you did this, how many rounds were fired from your AR ? Figure I would ask being there is a bunch of us and many years between all of us, so someone has to have a story.
I dont need these guns for home defense, I have others and more than one will be used.
I use them for hunting. 204 coyote,,,,,6.8 for deer,,,,,,223 for nothing
All my AR's have retractable stocks, pistol grips and muzzle brakes
How many forum members in this post have used their AR's to defend their family, home or personal property. When you did this, how many rounds were fired from your AR ? Figure I would ask being there is a bunch of us and many years between all of us, so someone has to have a story.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
The problem with a pump is that you need two hands to operate it and also condition yourself to do that 2nd nature under any situation.
If you have one hand hurt or you don't master the action you have more variables working against the versatility and effectiveness of the gun.
In concept is cool but in the practical world doesn't make much sense.
An old gun like a SKS with push on strips makes more sense in this case. Perhaps shortened and made lighter.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Not one here and in previous forums, so far, thanks God. Same question could be made for any guns.
One thing is clear, nobody is going to use more rounds that what they have at hand.
Okay,,,apply my question to any guns you own and one person who hasnt been in this situation, cant answer the question that was given to many.
If you have been in a home defense situation, please respond to my question.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Yeah. I agree with you about the 2 handed thing. Not very conducive to injury or an occupied off hand. It’s a compromise though and one that’s made with shotguns every day.
Regarding the SKS, I had nothing but problems with stripper clips for it when I had it. New construction ones from NC Star were terrible. They held all the rounds in it with no problem but were impossible to load from. They would jam and get hung up. I tried various other ones and would run into the same problem until I found Chinese surplus ones from eBay. They came in plastic bags with Chinese writing packed in cosmoline. They worked excellent for loading but in a pouch, I always had a round or 2 fall off.
If I were going to use a N.Y. legal rifle for home defense, I would in this order go with the Fightlite SCR, AK Sporter, Mini 14/30, Thordsen AR, followed by the Troy PAR.
The receivers would not mix and match with other ARs. That is the reason I did not buy one. In the beginning I thought it would be a nice addition to my collection and I emailed them about releasing just the upper. That is when they told me they would not fit on my lowers.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
If it becomes unfixed, no one will know until it is used and confiscated after the shooting. Of course you can fix it back but that’s assuming that you have time. And if you did fix it back, it still will be confiscated and inspected for legality. Also, if you have 3 or 4 ten round spent magazines all over the floor, you may have to explain them and your story should probably coincide with what ear witnesses heard. I guess you could use the Bear loader or Mean Arms loader defense but you should probably replace the spent magazines on the floor with those.
Too much BS. Much easier and safer to just use a pistol or a real compliant rifle like a Mini.
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
If someone breaks into my house and I'm caught with just a fixed mag AR, my plan is to get out of there as fast as I can and wait for him to come out with his hands full, one shot. besides, I'm not shooting my home full of holes.
Robin
Robin
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
For some reason, I could never get comfortable with a pump action rifle which is probably why that Remington was one of the only guns I've ever sold.
Shotgun, yes, for whatever reason- but (a) in my arsenal they're almost entirely sporting goods and (b) for hunting anything besides deer i go to my semiautomatic 12 gauge anyway nowadays.
Shotgun, yes, for whatever reason- but (a) in my arsenal they're almost entirely sporting goods and (b) for hunting anything besides deer i go to my semiautomatic 12 gauge anyway nowadays.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
You might be looking for a rare species.
99.9% have zero exposure to being in line of fire in fights even after training all their lives.
All that I can tell you and any professional instructor, military, IDPA, etc.. will also tell you is
that you train as you fight and you train with 2 or 3 mags and plenty of bullets.
anything else is whatever ones interpretation of what his/her reality might be that is not
what is tough all over for personal / critical defense.
Take some good professional training and will find out.
Defensive 3 Gun
Many of you have asked for a class that combines the use of handgun, carbine and shotgun into one 5-day course. Well, we listened and here it is! This
www.gunsite.com
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also going to toss this lil bit out.
How do you have your gear staged? How do you plan to carry all those AR "stripper clips"
I know the bear arsenal don't fit most mag carriers, and now let's think its 2am middle of the night you hear that door kicked in or window smashed, you grab your rifle, and what else?? Do you throw on a battle belt? Chest rig? Plate carrier with placard?
How do you have your gear staged? How do you plan to carry all those AR "stripper clips"
I know the bear arsenal don't fit most mag carriers, and now let's think its 2am middle of the night you hear that door kicked in or window smashed, you grab your rifle, and what else?? Do you throw on a battle belt? Chest rig? Plate carrier with placard?
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Forgot the tactical pajamas and slippers!
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
This type of threads are bad for the brain. They may eat the neurons away.
after reading a few of these you might find yourself grunting and drooling
after reading a few of these you might find yourself grunting and drooling
My point being he mentions how good he is with the reloads with the stripper clip things for AR.. but how does he plan to bring those to a gun fight
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
In the movies and video games one can do great things.
In real life one finds out quickly to stick to what everyone does, both equipment and tactics, and also train a lot, like once or twice every week.
That is what well prepared folks do.
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
I notice you're hiding your Itty bitty hands again.
Hahaha hahaha, good catch
First, to imply one is as immature as to believe real life situations and video games or films are one in the same is absurd and immature. To insinuate that I potentially am of that ilk is equally immature and asinine. It's a question, maybe simplistic on the eyes of others, but it is just simply a question. Training with whatever equipment you have regularly will make your skills and tactics effective. Potentially not as effective as others, but you play the cards in front of you.
This could be applied to anything additional brought to the fight, stripper clips or magazines. This doesn't hold water. Anything additional based on your statement would be a fault. EX-how would you plan to bring additional magazines to a fight?
Flawed logic
Welp, it was simply a question. Noone forced you to read it. If you believe by reading anything your iq has slipped, fault your own genetics and poor choices
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
The problem is not the question but some of the arguments w/o reason. Sometimes feels like the firearms version of Bloomberg's large sodas.
Questions are fine, the openness of mind and willingness to learn is something we have a lot of problems with.
I understand firearms owners can be quite opinionated and fanatic about their favorite firearms and calibers that is fine but there must be a limit somewhere.
In any case, it is a systemic condition in many forums, SM, even news and such.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
That’s correct but no matter how much you train, your equipment has limits. For example. An infantry platoon can train on fixed mag rifles and they will get smoked by another platoon that trains half as much but have regular rifles. It’s the equipment.
Now when it comes to loaders, you can train your ass off but all that goes out the window when it’s 430 AM and you are half asleep in the dark. Those loaders have to be inserted and engaged just right. On the other hand, a magazine can be fumbled and still loaded easily. It isn’t as dependent on a perfect fit.