.

[freddy]

And with that Prince 50, your rifle has the ability to accept a detachable magazine so you might as well use a standard magazine release.

I have an attorney that disagrees with your opinion. "Open and shut case" to quote them. I have also asked several LE friends and they unanimously agree that the fixed mag via set screw would not violate the unSAFE act as they see it.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I have an attorney that disagrees with your opinion. "Open and shut case" to quote them. I have also asked several LE friends and they unanimously agree that the fixed mag via set screw would not violate the unSAFE act as they see it.

With all due respect, your attorney is an idiot who doesn't know how to read basic English in Penal Law 265. Regardless, his opinion doesn't matter. The jury's will. I'm sorry to be harsh here but the truth is the truth.

Prosecutor.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury. The law says that in order for a rifle to be considered an assault weapon, it must be Semi Automatic, have THE ABILITY TO ACCEPT A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE, and have one feature.

This in my hand is a detachable magazine. Everyone take a good look at it. The rifle in question has to have the ability to ACCEPT this magazine.

As you can see, the rifle already has a magazine in it. In order for it to ACCEPT this magazine, the one inside it must be removed. In order to remove it, the defendant here has installed a magazine RELEASE that requires this Allen key. It requires 3 turns and the push of this button. As you can see, the magazine has dropped to the floor. Let's see if it accepts another one. CLICK! Let's try again. Press the button. It drops. Insert. Click!

Jury.

Gasps!

Idiot defense attorney

But you used a tool!

Prosecutor

Indeed I did. The law only says that it must have the ABILITY TO ACCEPT. The rifle did ACCEPT a detachable magazine. It did so numerous times. Nowhere does it say that it is exempt from having the ability to accept a detachable magazine if a tool is used.

Ladies and gentleman of the jury. You have to follow and convict according to how the law is exactly written. You cannot provide your own exemptions to the law that aren't in the actual law itself. As you can see, there is an exemption list to Penal Law 265. The mention of tools used to fix magazines to make them not have the ability to accept another one is nowhere listed in the exemption list.

 

[MilesTeg]

If that was such a lock solid case as you think it is, then why haven't they tried one of the many fixed magazine AR pistols that are now in NY. They know where they are and who has them. They are literally on the books as to what you perceive as an assault rifle...... Maybe it's not how you perceive it after all and the attorney is correct.

 

[Marine Cpl]

If that was such a lock solid case as you think it is, then why haven't they tried one of the many fixed magazine AR pistols that are now in NY. They know where they are and who has them. They are literally on the books as to what you perceive as an assault rifle...... Maybe it's not how you perceive it after all and the attorney is correct.

Because tons of people haven't been arrested for it and the ones who have, have plead out to lesser charges. It's in the best interest of both parties to do so.

Cops aren't going to ranges checking and searching people's homes for it. It usually requires another crime for it to be discovered. The majority of people who put these devices on their rifles aren't committing crimes with them. Those that commit crimes, have standard magazine releases.

As far as the AR pistol goes, the judge who issues your permit has no idea how it is compliant. He takes the gun shops word that it is.

 

[MilesTeg]

Again it's on the books if you are correct they have admitted to a felony and no one is going after them. Probably because it's not as clear cut as you think it is.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Again it's on the books if you are correct they have admitted to a felony and no one is going after them. Probably because it's not as clear cut as you think it is.

Correct. It isn't if you cannot read English.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

You guys are talking about the wrong stuff you would be thinking about if SHTF. Instead of pistol grips and stocks you should be worried about doing that full auto conversion you've always wanted to try and making silencers for your guns. Will I start a shit storm if I say silencers will actually improve some things?

 

[MilesTeg]

Correct. It isn't if you cannot read English.

I disagree but you know that. I read highly technically documents everyday at work and your interpretation is wrong. Not only is that my opinion but has been backed up by countless professionals. But lets disregard that.

Ok so you have plenty of these AR pistols on the books, why haven't they went after them yet?

 

[Marine Cpl]

I disagree but you know that. I read highly technically documents everyday at work and your interpretation is wrong. Not only is that my opinion but has been backed up by countless professionals. But lets disregard that.

Ok so you have plenty of these AR pistols on the books, why haven't they went after them yet?

What documents were those? Penal law 265? That is the only document that matters.

Everything else is people giving opinions that they aren't entitled to legally give. The only opinion that matters is a judge or jury's and only after going by Penal Law 265 exactly as written.

 

[MilesTeg]

What documents were those? Penal law 265? That is the only document that matters.

Everything else is people giving opinions that they aren't entitled to legally give. The only opinion that matters is a judge or jury's and only after going by Penal Law 265 exactly as written.

Exactly so maybe you shouldn't be trying to pass off your opinion as truth.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Exactly so maybe you shouldn't be trying to pass off your opinion as truth.

It's not an opinion. It says what it says. Nowhere does it list exemptions requiring tools like California's law does.

I know you don't like it. Hell, I don't like it. But facts are facts. You cannot get an exemption to a law if it isn't listed. That's basic shit.

 

[GUNSICK]

Compliance Fags.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Compliance Fags.

For shit to be used by the family in case of a break in. Yes. They aren't martyrs to a useless cause that you guys aren't going to get them off of.

For me to go out in public with. Yes. I'm a faggot. I'm not going to jail for a useless cause that you guys aren't going to get me off for.

For burying shit in backyards, sheds, floor boards, ECT that they'll never find... I'm no faggot. I'm covered there.

 

[Uzi]

At the cost of having a non functioning rifle that you cannot train with or defend yourself with now. That's my point.

You have a rifle for the future when you move away or the laws go away. The latter isn't happening anytime soon if ever. But regardless, if it is for the future then I agree. The fixed magazine is a better option.

For now to actually put it to use to serve a roll other than a toy to be used for defense or training, featureless is a better option.

That's such a silly nonsense thing to say. It would kill an intruder dead the same way during a break in that a detachable magazine rifle would if you had to use the full 10 rounds. What is to stop someone with training with stripper clip reloads anyways if they choose that route? Training is for muscle memory and better acquisition. Why can't someone train with one? Because it's not as easy? bullshit... Just because something isn't ideal and perfect, doesn't mean it's not able to achieve a task. While not great, I think it would be fair for home defense, I don't hear about many people needing to use a full standard 30rd magazine with multiple reloads for someone that wanted to steal your tv and wrist watch often. How many instances are home owners reloading more shells into their pump actions to scare off, or before they hit an intruder in the real world? You want to talk about training? I think most people that train in defensive shoots also carry and have a handgun with them too. I always have my handgun on me, all day, all night with an extra magazine always, it is in fact my go to weapon because I always have immediate access to it. No, a fixed magazine is not perfect, but it's better than not using anything, and people can still shoot at ranges and enjoy modifying/personalizing them and easily swap them back and forth when out of state or making moves or WROL/SHTF.

 

[Uzi]

Compliance Fags.

You have more compliant AR-15 variants than pretty much everyone on this forum?

 

[Marine Cpl]

That's such a silly nonsense thing to say. It would kill an intruder dead the same way during a break in that a detachable magazine rifle would if you had to use the full 10 rounds. What is to stop someone with training with stripper clip reloads anyways if they choose that route? Training is for muscle memory and better acquisition. Why can't someone train with one? Because it's not as easy? bullshit... Just because something isn't ideal and perfect, doesn't mean it's not able to achieve a task. While not great, I think it would be fair for home defense, I don't hear about many people needing to use a full standard 30rd magazine with multiple reloads for someone that wanted to steal your tv and wrist watch often. How many instances are home owners reloading more shells into their pump actions to scare off, or before they hit an intruder in the real world? You want to talk about training? I think most people that train in defensive shoots also carry and have a handgun with them too. I always have my handgun on me, all day, all night with an extra magazine always, it is in fact my go to weapon because I always have immediate access to it. No, a fixed magazine is not perfect, but it's better than not using anything, and people can still shoot at ranges and enjoy modifying/personalizing them and easily swap them back and forth when out of state or making moves or WROL/SHTF.

What is to stop sometime with training to use that stupid mag loader for defense?

Answer. The inability to clear a malfunction.

You really need to go take a tactical course.

What happens if your magazine malfunctions? You break it on something by banging it up, rounds get lodged in the magazine, the feed lips malfunction, a number of things. One of your rounds fails to fire and now you are down to 9 rounds with multiple people firing back at you. You can't tactical reload, ECT.

Don't take this personal like I think you are doing. I think you just aren't seeing things from all angles.

 

[Podmonkey]

I don't understand. The Lancer version seems to be modified for the Socom (not to mention $30 each). Are you saying the modded mag will cycle 5.56?

Are they modded? I thought the followers were the same? There are several other makes if the Lancer is too rich. Its ridiculous that they charge twice as much for a 10 round .458 mag over a 30 round 5.56 mag.

 

[Uzi]

What is to stop sometime with training to use that stupid mag loader for defense?

Answer. The inability to clear a malfunction.

You really need to go take a tactical course.

What happens if your magazine malfunctions? You break it on something by banging it up, rounds get lodged in the magazine, the feed lips malfunction, a number of things. One of your rounds fails to fire and now you are down to 9 rounds with multiple people firing back at you. You can't tactical reload, ECT.

Don't take this personal like I think you are doing. I think you just aren't seeing things from all angles.

Sorry, too much of that didn't make sense. I also no longer care about this subject, it's boring me now.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Sorry, too much of that didn't make sense. I also no longer care about this subject, it's boring me now.

Which is why you should take a tactical class that trains with malfunctions and tactical reloads.

 

[Uzi]

Which is why you should take a tactical class that trains with malfunctions.

Sure, whatever you say Willjr75, whatever you say.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Sure, whatever you say Willjr75, whatever you say.

I'm not trying to insult you.

 

[Ozmiander]

I'm not trying to insult you.

It's okay, everyone here knows you furiously masturbate over telling attorneys how the law works, why we only care about guns looking cool and that you're the definitive opinion on all things guns.

 

[Marine Cpl]

It's okay, everyone here knows you furiously masturbate over telling attorneys how the law works, why we only care about guns looking cool and that you're the definitive opinion on all things guns.

Yep. That's what I do. I masturbate to stupid lawyers. I don't know what I'm talking about. I also don't know what I'm talking about in regards to needing the ability to reload.

The most important thing in a semi auto rifle is the ability to reload. Especially if limited on magazine capacity. So you get into a gunfight. You fire 3 rounds. 2 miss. There is another shooter. 2 to 4 more rounds are fired. You are now down to 2 to 4 rounds. You aren't sure if the threat is over. So you drop the magazine and load a fresh one.

Wait! It's fixed! You can't drop the magazine! What do you do? Pull the bolt back, drop a fresh, unfired round on the floor. Pop open your upper and manually load 8 more rounds. Or if you have that stupid magazine loading device, you pull back on the charging handle, drop a fresh round on the floor, fumble with the stupid magazine loading device that's filled with 10 rounds to try and top off your fixed magazine that has 3 rounds in it while you are getting shot at not knowing if the magazine loader that's stuffed into your ejection port loaded 7 or 6.

Please. I don't know what I'm talking about. I've actually been through training in my life. Over half of your rounds will not find their target under stress or if the perp is behind cover. Sometimes all will find the target but not put the target down.

Yep. Fixed magazine is the way go.

 

[Ozmiander]

Yep. That's what I do. I masturbate to stupid lawyers. I don't know what I'm talking about. I also don't know what I'm talking about in regards to needing the ability to reload.

The most important thing in a semi auto rifle is the ability to reload. Especially if limited on magazine capacity. So you get into a gunfight. You fire 3 rounds. 2 miss. There is another shooter. 2 to 4 more rounds are fired. You are now down to 2 to 4 rounds. You aren't sure if the threat is over. So you drop the magazine and load a fresh one.

Wait! It's fixed! You can't drop the magazine! What do you do? Pull the bolt back, drop a fresh, unfired round on the floor. Pop open your upper and manually load 8 more rounds. Or if you have that stupid magazine loading device, you fumble with it to try and top off your fixed magazine while you are getting shot at.

Please. I don't know what I'm talking about. I've actually been through training in my life. Over half of your rounds will not find their target under stress or if the perp is behind cover. Sometimes all will find the target but not put the target down.

Yep. Fixed magazine is the way go.

You make so many assumptions, it's hilarious.

 

[Marine Cpl]

You make so many assumptions, it's hilarious.

Assumptions? Please elaborate. Nothing I said is incorrect in regards to using a fixed magazine for self defense.

 

[GUNSICK]

What did people argue about when you only had one shot? How many muskets should you hide under the bed?

 

[Marine Cpl]

Someone asked here if there was any Bullet Button arrests. Remember the key words. "Ability to Accept"

http://nyfirearms.com/forums/laws-politics-firearms-self-defense-weapons/143570-i-need-help.html

 

[freddy]

Someone asked here if there was any Bullet Button arrests. Remember the key words. "Ability to Accept"

http://nyfirearms.com/forums/laws-politics-firearms-self-defense-weapons/143570-i-need-help.html

They can charge anyone with anything. Hopefully he will take this all the way.

 

[Marine Cpl]

They can charge anyone with anything. Hopefully he will take this all the way.

If this is real, he is saying his lawyer wants him to plead out. Dollars to donuts says that he will. It's cheaper for him, less risky if he gets a sweet deal, and good for the state. The state will make it sweet so that it isn't challenged.

 

[freddy]

I wonder what details are missing from the story...

"Hello, this is my first time posting here so I'll introduce myself. I'm from the Albany area and have spent most of my life here. I'm a college graduate in my mid 20's and apart from a few driving infractions have stayed on the right side of the law. Here's the reason behind this post: A few years back I sold an Ar-15 to a friend of mine, this rifle was SAFE act compliant to the best of my knowledge. It had a bullet button installed and the bullet button was glued in place to make it "unpressable". Fast forward a couple of years and the friend I had sold it to somehow came into contact with law enforcement and they took the rifle/questioned him about it. By this time he had removed the glue and was using it just with the Bullet Button (I have communication between us that proves that it was glued at the time of sale along with pictures, etc.). Long story short, I'm being charged with criminal sale of a firearm because they claim the rifle wasn't safe act compliant when I sold it (even though it had a BB that was epoxied). The district attorney is claiming that even an epoxied Bullet Button doesn't make it legal. He isn't willing to settle for anything less than a 6 month jail sentence/5 years probation and if I go to trial I face 7 years in prison. I had scoured the internet when I first bought this rifle (using NY Firearms as an awesome resource) to find out how to stay on the right side of the law, and there seemed to be a consensus that an epoxied BB made the rifle legal, I spoke to gunshot owners, and saw that they had that in their inventory. The DA is saying it needs to be welded in place to make it legal. I don't want to have a criminal record or go to jail, I've always tried to be law abiding and now I'm in this horrible position. I'm at a loss right now and don't know what to do. My attorney thinks I should take the deal but I wanted to reach out for help here as a last resort. I'm not posting my info/what county for privacy reasons but if someone wants to talk in private feel free to PM or contact me. Thank you guys so much."