holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Things are heating up in the Donbass
- Thread starter holdover
- Start date
I love the smell of globalists shitting themselves in the morning.
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Russia's improved weaponry and tactics pose challenges to Ukraine's counteroffensive
Ukrainian troops are probing Russian defenses as spring gives way to a second summer of fighting, and Kyiv's forces are facing an enemy that has made mistakes and suffered setbacks in the 15-month-old war. Russia has built heavily fortified defenses along the 1,000-kilometer (600-mile) front...
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Ukraine has lost hundreds of pieces of Western-supplied hardware – Putin
Kiev’s troops have lost up to 30% of Western-supplied equipment in their counteroffensive, Russian President Vladimir Putin has said
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
But no funding for below ..
Because there is nothing in return for their pockets.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Senator Dick Black
@SenRichardBlack
Ukraine’s offensive hit a steel wall. 7,000 KIA, 160 tanks and 360 armored vehicles destroyed in just one week with trivial gains. It is a pointless bloodbath. Charred Leopard tanks and Bradley vehicles lie everywhere. Telling Ukraine to fight “for as long as it takes” is inhuman. End this tragic war now.
7:34 AM · Jun 14, 2023
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
What a sad state. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people just wanting to enjoy their family, enjoy their homeland, forced to move, forced to witness their loved ones die a horrific death, forced to live hell on earth. For what? To satisfy one mans lust, one dictating tyrant that murders or imprisons anyone that disagrees with him and has the courage to say just that.
Robin
Robin
MothMan
.338 Win Mag
Yeah, really!! Somebody ought to bitch slap Zelenskyy.
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
He's a genuine POS all right. What would you give Putin, dozen roses and a smack on the lips?
Robin
Robin
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Thats the western Narrative, thats not what happened, They sell it like that but it isnt true.
In 1991 following the break up of the Soviet union, Ukraine was granted sovereignty under the terms they would stay neutral and not join NATO.
Ukraine, , has proclaimed a non-block status, which it has, due to various reasons, maintained since its independence. The basis for neutrality can be found in the Declaration of State Sovereignty of Ukraine, passed on July 1, 1990, which declares that the country has the “intention of becoming a permanently neutral state that does not participate in military blocs and adheres to three nuclear free principles…” (Declaration of State Sovereignty 1990: Art. IX). Furthermore, the Ukrainian Constitution, which bases itself on the Declaration of Independence of August 24, 1991, contains these basic principles of non-coalition and future neutrality.
The principle of Ukraine’s neutrality, as established in the Constitution, corresponds to the interests of the country from a security perspective; it further seems to be the logical compromise for the society. However, it is important to draw analogizes and parallels to neutral countries and their experiences to comprehend if this, indeed, would work for a country as Ukraine.
Nato on Russias doorstep was unacceptable to Russia As a threat , therefore Ukraine had to agree to maintain neutral, and give up all Nuclear weapons to gain sovereignty
The Lisbon Protocol, concluded on May 23, 1992, sought to alleviate those fears by committing the three non-Russian former Soviet states to return their nuclear weapons to Russia. In spite of a series of political disputes that sparked some concerns about implementation of the protocol, all Soviet nuclear weapons were eventually transferred to Russia by the end of 1996.
When the Soviet Union officially dissolved in December 1991, the newly-independent states of Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Ukraine inherited more than 3,000 strategic nuclear weapons (those capable of striking the continental United States), as well as at least 3,000 tactical or battlefield nuclear weapons. In 1991, the United States and the Soviet Union announced the Presidential Nuclear Initiatives to substantially reduce their respective tactical nuclear weapons arsenals. All dispersed Soviet tactical weapons were reportedly back on Russian soil by the end of 1992, but the strategic weapons posed a larger problem.
2014 Ukraine overthrows Russian friendly government., with help of the CIA
2014 Ukraine's parliament has voted to abandon the country's neutral "non-bloc" status and set a course for NATO membership, a move immediately denounced by Russia as "unfriendly."
In a Facebook post early on December 23, 2014 before the vote, Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev said the legislation to abandon nonaligned status was "in essence, an application to enter NATO, turning Ukraine into a potential military opponent of Russia."
Moscow has frequently warned that it strongly opposes Ukrainian membership in NATO and has called for formal assurances that this will never happen.
On 17 May 2014, the Central Election Commission of Ukraine (CEC) stated that, due to "illegal actions of unknown people", it could not arrange for the "preparation and conduct of elections" in six constituencies in the Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts.[48] According to the CEC, members of district election commissions there had received threats to their own personal safety and to that of their families.[48] The CEC warned that two million people in the two oblasts (provinces), about 5.6% of Ukraine's approximately 36 million eligible voters, could be deprived of their right to vote if the situation there did not improve.[48][nb 4][nb 5] On 22 May, the work of eighteen of the thirty-four election commissions in Donetsk[nb 6] and Luhansk Oblasts had been stopped fully or partially by representatives of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic.[50] By 23 May, this number had increased to twenty of the thirty-four.[51] The Committee of Voters of Ukraine predicted on 23 May that, due to "ongoing acts of terrorism and armed insurgency", 10% of the Ukrainian population would be unable to vote.[52][nb 7] On the same day, the leader of the Luhansk People's Republic advised citizens not to go to the polls to vote, warning of possible provocative "explosions" set by Ukrainian military.[53]
The Crimea Luhansk and Donbass did not partake in the elections. they refused to recognize the new president, government as legitimate and became breakaway republics , fighting ensued from 2014 to today .
When word got back to Moscow that a NATO port was to be established in the Crimea about 600 yards from Russia , Russia invaded the Crimea with little resistance from the people who are mostly Russian.
A major theme of the new Military Doctrine is the assessment of the nature and risks of military conflict and the potential sources and manifestations of such conflict as a threat to Ukraine's national security. The new doctrine includes an increased emphasis on conflict prevention, non-first use of military force, proportional response, and compliance with the norms of international law as well as the more traditional measures for the development of defense capacity and conduct of national defense. Of note, several sections address possible threats emanating from the Russian Black Sea Fleet (BSF) including: (a) the redeployment of foreign forces stationed by agreement on Ukrainian territory without notification of the Ukrainian authorities and (b) the use of such forces against third parties.
President Vladimir Putin has suggested that the main reason Russia annexed Crimea from Ukraine in March was the prospect of NATO forces being deployed on the peninsula.
NATO had been heavlily arming and training Ukraine since the overthrow in 2014 ( see John Mcain).
Theres more to it than what I posted, the point is, this isnt a simple act of aggression to take what Russia had pretty much owned 20 years before. Its a lot more complicated than what Anderson cooper tells the public.
In my opinion, what happened in Ukraine is similar to what almost happened during the Cuba missile crisis.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
You do not get to invade your sovereign neighbors just because you don't like their friends.
This is the equivalent of us invading Canada because they elected Fidel Castro's illegitimate son to lead them and started cozying up to China.
The very concept of "independent" and "soverign" precludes Russia from having any say in who Ukraine allies or tradea with.
None of those excuses for this are legitimate. This is a simple attempt to conquer your neighbor. It is the same thing Iraq did to Kuwait.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Right. Thats not what happened.
Nope.
Except that it did . That was a precondition for independence That Ukraine agreed to . They were in violation and it was made clear by Russia multiple times that was unacceptable and would cause a war . weather you agree with that or not doesn't matter. That was the deal and Ukraine broke it. Also, That deal was made before Putin ever came into powerSo saying Putin is a land grabbing madman intent on taking all of Europe is total Western propaganda nonsense.
No its not remotely the same thing.
The Russians were forced by virtue of the treaty and self security to act in their own best interest to secure thier own border. Once Ukraine decided to join NATO , Russia had no options but to fight NATO or fight Ukraine
American and British military advisors served in Ukraine, U.S. missile systems sat in Poland and Romania; and NATO troops were conducting exercises in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, once part of the former Soviet Union. Now more Nato troops and missiles were to be stationed in Ukraine, Plans to build a NATO port in Crimea.
All of this happened after the assurances of ""Not one inch"" policy .
Washington D.C., December 12, 2017 – U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University
Gorbachev’s statement in response to the assurances that “NATO expansion is unacceptable.” Baker assured Gorbachev that “neither the President nor I intend to extract any unilateral advantages from the processes that are taking place,” and that the Americans understood that “not only for the Soviet Union but for other European countries as well it is important to have guarantees that if the United States keeps its presence in Germany within the framework of NATO, not an inch of NATO’s present military jurisdiction will spread in an eastern direction.” (See Document 6)
Baker reported: “And then I put the following question to him [Gorbachev]. Would you prefer to see a united Germany outside of NATO, independent and with no U.S. forces or would you prefer a unified Germany to be tied to NATO, with assurances that NATO’s jurisdiction would not shift one inch eastward from its present position? He answered that the Soviet leadership was giving real thought to all such options [….] He then added, ‘Certainly any extension of the zone of NATO would be unacceptable.’”
THIS IS WHY NATO IS A OPEN THREAT TO MOSCOW:
Tuesday 31 January 2023 @ 9:30 - 18:30 CET
The Imperial Russia: Conquer, Genocide & Colonisation.
For many who have experienced Russian oppression in the past, the war in Ukraine can only end when the Russian Federation is completely repulsed and defeated. In order to finally remove the threat to peace that the Russian Federation still poses, the international community should seek a re-federalisation of the Russian state.It is naive to think that the Russian Federation can remain within the same constitutional and territorial framework. Taking into account the national and ethnic map of the territories of the Russian Federation, we should discuss the prospects for the creation of free and independent states in the post-Russian space, as well as the prospects for their stability and prosperity. The international community has a duty to support the rights of the indigenous peoples who, as a result of Russian conquest and colonisation, now exist within the borders of the Russian Federation.
The Imperial Russia: Conquer, Genocide & Colonisation. // ECR Group
For many who have experienced Russian oppression in the past, the war in Ukraine can only end when the Russian Federation is completely repulsed and defeated. In order to finally remove the threat to peace that the Russian Federation still poses, the international community should seek a...
ecrgroup.eu
Sorry Putin isnt the madman bent on the reconstruction of the soviet union as we are told to believe.
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
............and Oliver stone too? Golly gee batman!
I really don't care about all the word salad used to justify ones opinion. I guess I try to find as much 'factual' information as I can and form my own opinion, that would be a foundation as opposed to stilts. Yeah, there are a lot of dirt bags in this whole shit show and not much right with any of it, but in the end, the little dictator was wrong for what he has done and continues to do, starting with Crimea.
Robin
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
The word salad is there to explain my position. its based on historical precedence , and factual information which I based my own conclusions on. Take it or leave it for what its worth.
Oliver stone was thrown in because he was a Vietnam vet who came to realize later on he was lied to by the US government and began making movies exposing those lies in his own way.
Movies like : platoon, Salvador, JFK, Wall st Born on the forth of july. ect.
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Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I'm sure you and Ollie would hit it off big time.
Robin
Robin
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Hello this is 911, how can I help you?
Putin: Hello? Yes there are men on my street with guns .
911: Did they shoot at you?
Putin: No
911: OK just calm down they are probably afraid of you
Putin: What?
Putin: Lady they are in my neighbors back yards on all sides of me.I think they want to hurt me.
911: Didnt you kick one of your neighbors ass'es about 30 or forty years ago? They are probably worried about that .
Putin: Well yes, but..... Lady they are in my yard now! WTF!
911: Just stay calm. do you have any weapons in the house?
Putin: Yes I do!
911: They must be concerned about them, have they ever threatened you before?
Putin: Oh hell yes they have , many times , Oh shit ! Lady they are on my back porch .
911: Well dont do anything rash, just stay calm and see if they shoot at you.
Putin: Fuck you lady, Im going in.
911: your a madman !!!
Putin: Hello? Yes there are men on my street with guns .
911: Did they shoot at you?
Putin: No
911: OK just calm down they are probably afraid of you
Putin: What?
Putin: Lady they are in my neighbors back yards on all sides of me.I think they want to hurt me.
911: Didnt you kick one of your neighbors ass'es about 30 or forty years ago? They are probably worried about that .
Putin: Well yes, but..... Lady they are in my yard now! WTF!
911: Just stay calm. do you have any weapons in the house?
Putin: Yes I do!
911: They must be concerned about them, have they ever threatened you before?
Putin: Oh hell yes they have , many times , Oh shit ! Lady they are on my back porch .
911: Well dont do anything rash, just stay calm and see if they shoot at you.
Putin: Fuck you lady, Im going in.
911: your a madman !!!
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Probably would.. He has insight , and not afraid to question his master
( I also played a man in the background in a commercial once, so theres that)
spat
.700 Nitro Express
You cannot set conditions on sovereignty.Right. Thats not what happened.
Nope.
Except that it did . That was a precondition for independence That Ukraine agreed to . They were in violation and it was made clear by Russia multiple times that was unacceptable and would cause a war . weather you agree with that or not doesn't matter. That was the deal and Ukraine broke it. Also, That deal was made before Putin ever came into powerSo saying Putin is a land grabbing madman intent on taking all of Europe is total Western propaganda nonsense.
No its not remotely the same thing.
The Russians were forced by virtue of the treaty and self security to act in their own best interest to secure thier own border. Once Ukraine decided to join NATO , Russia had no options but to fight NATO or fight Ukraine
American and British military advisors served in Ukraine, U.S. missile systems sat in Poland and Romania; and NATO troops were conducting exercises in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, once part of the former Soviet Union. Now more Nato troops and missiles were to be stationed in Ukraine, Plans to build a NATO port in Crimea.
All of this happened after the assurances of ""Not one inch"" policy .
Washington D.C., December 12, 2017 – U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University
Gorbachev’s statement in response to the assurances that “NATO expansion is unacceptable.” Baker assured Gorbachev that “neither the President nor I intend to extract any unilateral advantages from the processes that are taking place,” and that the Americans understood that “not only for the Soviet Union but for other European countries as well it is important to have guarantees that if the United States keeps its presence in Germany within the framework of NATO, not an inch of NATO’s present military jurisdiction will spread in an eastern direction.” (See Document 6)
Baker reported: “And then I put the following question to him [Gorbachev]. Would you prefer to see a united Germany outside of NATO, independent and with no U.S. forces or would you prefer a unified Germany to be tied to NATO, with assurances that NATO’s jurisdiction would not shift one inch eastward from its present position? He answered that the Soviet leadership was giving real thought to all such options [….] He then added, ‘Certainly any extension of the zone of NATO would be unacceptable.’”
THIS IS WHY NATO IS A OPEN THREAT TO MOSCOW:
Tuesday 31 January 2023 @ 9:30 - 18:30 CET
The Imperial Russia: Conquer, Genocide & Colonisation.
For many who have experienced Russian oppression in the past, the war in Ukraine can only end when the Russian Federation is completely repulsed and defeated. In order to finally remove the threat to peace that the Russian Federation still poses, the international community should seek a re-federalisation of the Russian state.
It is naive to think that the Russian Federation can remain within the same constitutional and territorial framework. Taking into account the national and ethnic map of the territories of the Russian Federation, we should discuss the prospects for the creation of free and independent states in the post-Russian space, as well as the prospects for their stability and prosperity. The international community has a duty to support the rights of the indigenous peoples who, as a result of Russian conquest and colonisation, now exist within the borders of the Russian Federation.
The Imperial Russia: Conquer, Genocide & Colonisation. // ECR Group
For many who have experienced Russian oppression in the past, the war in Ukraine can only end when the Russian Federation is completely repulsed and defeated. In order to finally remove the threat to peace that the Russian Federation still poses, the international community should seek a...
Sorry Putin isnt the madman bent on the reconstruction of the soviet union as we are told to believe.
Once they are sovereign and independent, then you have no say. The attempt to do that means you are attempting to maintain control of them.
It reminds me of those parents whose kids have moved out and are living on their own, but they still want to set a curfew and tell them what friends they can have.
The Soviet Union had some claim over Ukraine via right of conquest after WWII. Russia wanted to pretend they were the Soviet Union after they dissolved, and they are now trying to reassert that control via right of conquest once again.
WWII was the end of colonialism and conquest as an accepted practice on the world stage. People realized that holding territory was no longer the most effective way to assert power, and that colonies would become a drain rather than an asset.
Even of Russia eventually occupies all of Ukraine, it's going to kill them. Look at the trouble Isreal has with Palestine, and they have a far better claim over a much smaller territory.
There is no "win" scenario here for Russian. No matter who ends up running Kiev, both sides have lost.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
I totally understand what your saying, but thats what happened, and that was the deal Ukraine agreed to.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Except Ukraine is neither his yard or his porch.
Ukraine is his neighbor.
Nobody has set foot in his yard since WWII.
Russia is the Karen who think she's still running an HOA, after the neighborhood dissolved it. So she's trying to issue demands about what color mailbox her neighbor can have.
Now, she's trying to have *his* car towed from *his* driveway.
Everyone else in the neighborhood is sick of her shit and are helping out in the lawsuit.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Really? is that how you see it ? no encroachment? after being promised not one inch east, ?