Vapor
.308 Win
I would say gun and ammo makers should simply refuse to sell to restrictive state law enforcement. All across the board.
LEO should be subject to the same restrictions as civilians.
- Thread starter RooftopKorean
- Start date
Beerman
6.5 Creedmoor
We’re trying, but the courts keep putting us off. Bruen didn’t really help us much here in NYS, so far. If the citizens rise up to take back their rights, do yo7 think the State would allow that? I would love to see the police (local, county, state) do what they did recently in NM and publicly state that they will not enforce the CCIA.
New Mexico LE is a perfect example to show that not all are against the people.
If and when the people ban together, maybe things will change. Gun owners are a funny bunch, they never can get on the same page of things.
A lot of troopers drink at the bar I tend at. When they get a few drinks in them it is quite enlightening to hear their opinions of the constitution, individual rights and private gun ownership, not just handguns but all guns. And it isn't positive. To them the Constitution is a hindrance best ignored, individual rights are a joke and no one should own a firearm of any kind. I will say that the few Deputy Sheriff's that come in (there is no love lost, and often open hostility between the 2 agencies) have the exact opposite opinion.
All well and good, EXCEPT that LEO's have the right to carry in ALL 50 states and US Territories. And you can carry in places we ordinary peons cannot. Make it ALL the same, and I will not complain.
The levels of indoctrination at the State level is astounding.
Most State police despise officers from all other walks of life. It is rare that I am courteous to them.
That is a Federal thing, not a State thing. When leosa was first discussed, it was not what the program is now.
dwa12479
.338 Win Mag
And what @Rocpo is saying is that shouldn't be the case. That anyone SHOULD have those same rights/privileges, whatever we want to call them.
At the end of the day, we can thank the politicians for stoking this animosity between citizen and LE. They threw a bone to LE because they know full well thats what it would take to have their unconstitutional bullshit get passed and enforced.
I do not bear ill-will towards LE for the extra "rights" they have bestowed upon them, I believe we all should have the same. And that's exactly what @Rocpo and @GOPerfect are saying here as well.
Where it really gets contentious is with the LEOs that are happy to have their extra privileges and have no problem jamming someone up for a 30 rd mag or some other such non-sense. Those types of guys can eat a bag of dicks.
Doesn't matter to me what it was conceived as. Even with my Erie County NYS Unrestricted CCW, I cannot own, or carry what Leo's can in NYS, and those like me cannot likewise carry across our entire state (NYC) at all. And that holds true for LEO's from across the country, - not just those from NYS.
Like I said, make it all the same, and I will not complain.
In my experience sheriff's are much more aligned with the citizens of their jurisdictions.
I would trust a random sheriff 100 times out of 100 of a random trooper.
Picking what is being placed down.
As for the LEOSA law, not that it matters all that much, but, when it was first spoken of and thought up; one reason was about protecting the individual officer if and when that officer crossed State lines due to work. Often times, LEO are called upon to go to different locations to back up other departments in other States. Prior to the idea of LEOSA, they legally could not carry their guns to "work".
Another reason was, many departments across the Country forbade officers from obtaining a Pistol Permit while employed with the department. Many departments would issue the sidearm to the officer when clocked in and checked back in after shift. I do not know many non LE jobs that forbid their employees from obtaining a pistol permit.
Again, not fully on topic, but important things to know.
Quick story about the Deputies. I think this may be very much the same across the Nation.
As you know, I closed on the house and took a trip down 2 weekends ago. Second day there, a County Sheriff Deputy pulled up the driveway. I went out and greeted him, he asked if I bought the place, asked me for my ID. Did a quick look and handed it back to me. Welcomed me to the neighborhood and asked when we were moving permanently, I gave him the basic details of our plans and he told me that he would make sure to do a couple checks on the property until we moved down.
He took down my phone number and told me that if there were any issues, he would give me a call. I do not see that with State Police.
To be clear, I have absolutely no issue with LEO's on this site, including @GOPerfect, whom I have great respect for. I simply want the same.
This I know. I never take words here to be personal attacks. Open conversation is the key to success.
I know that things here will never, never be the same. Big reason for me leaving.
The Courts are against the people. The Police are not always for the people. The laws are against the people.
Nothing will change in NY, no matter the fight that is fought.
Back in the late 80's the local state police barracks was moved into the town limits. Troopers soon after started setting up radar in town, and the police chief went to speak with the barracks commander about it. A couple days later the police chief's wife (I was dating her sister at the time) was ticketed by a trooper for going 31 in a 30mph zone. Things went from bad to worse and there were several fistfights between the town cops and troopers at traffic stops. A few years ago a trooper got drunk and hit another car. The first 2 responding officers were troopers, and they were writing tickets for the driver whose car was hit. A deputy shows up, sees what is going on and arrests the drunk trooper. A couple weeks later the deputy was going shopping with his wife and 2 kids. They got pulled over, taken out of the car and the troopers tore the car apart, looking for nothing. They left the deputy and his family alongside the road. The following weekend the deputy and his brother came in my bar to watch the football game. About a half hour later the 2 troopers that tore his car apart came in for the same thing. I thought for a few minutes there was going to be a gunfight. I have a good friend who is a Westchester County PD lieutenant. He refers to NYS Troopers as *unts and runts.
I tend bar for a living, and I never drink while I work, for a variety of reasons. When I was working nights I was often stopped by troopers, 2 or 3 times a week. I never thought I could have so many incidences of broken taillights that mysteriously work when I get home, that one is legally required to count to 5 at a stop sign before proceeding, and how a trooper with his bight lights on behind me can tell that my license plate lights are dim but it happened a lot. As one trooper told me one night in the bar, anyone out after midnight is up to no good and NEEDS to be checked out. Another time the troopers had a road block set up late one night near the bar and 2 troopers came in to use the bathroom. No big deal, and as I was closing I gave them several cups of coffee to take with them that I would have thrown out anyway. As I drive by and hit the roadblock those same troopers made me get out of the car and do the roadside sobriety check. THey don't act like police, they act like an army of occupation.
For the exact same reasons you cited, they also factored into my decision to chuck it all and leave NYS for the Carolinas. As they like to say here: Nothing could be finer than being in the Carolinas.
In regards to State Police here in NY, the best thing you can do is file complaints against them. Complain constantly about everything they do wrong. The Brass does not take these complaints light, not at all. Enough people complain, they are taken off the road, puts a serious dent in their career plans.
Vapor
.308 Win
I've never in my entire life been pulled over by a broome or Chenango country sheriff or town police.
I have been pulled over about 10 times by troopers. Out of those, at least one turned into harassment becuse I dared have a gun shop sticker on my car.
Out of all those, I only received 2 fix it tickets.
In pa, I don't know. I only have seen a handful of pa state troopers ever.
Maybe it is the mindset and the indoctrination of NY State Police. Couple of trips ago, I got tagged in Tennessee by a State cop. He approached, was courteous, asked me if I knew why he pulled me over, I was honest and told him I was speeding. Asked a few more questions, what was I doing? On vacation, visiting friends and so on, told him we were going down looking for a new house. He wished me well and welcomed me to the State. Ran my license, returned and told me to slow down a bit. He even tipped his hat to my wife.
Might be a NY thing.
Might be a NY thing.
In my experience, this seems to always be the case. Sheriff, locals are pretty decent. I'm nearly convinced the trooper training instills the belief that they are above the normal every day citizen (which is what they are)
All Police Academy's do this to a point. You almost have to to a certain degree. It is tough to put into words why.
Never met a sheriff I didn't like, most locals are decent after a few years on the job. Troopers just seem to have a different mentality. Not saying they're pricks or anything (some are), just that they seem to hold a higher opinion of themselves compared to anyone else.
Dr. Evil
20×102mm Vulcan
It's similar to the whole covid/mask/jab "rules." It needs to be mass non compliance to actually accomplish anything that would rid the earth of that scourge. As long as there are any LEO's that have no problem enforcing unconstitutional laws on the citizens there will be mistrust, animosity and frustration even when you come across a good LEO. It's a crap shoot and it shouldn't be.
2WheelGnnr
6.5 Creedmoor
I wonder how this will effect things on the conservation side so to speak...talking about this ammo stuff and hunting season coming up...many hunters not aware of it and the ones that do dont plan to buy licenses this year...supposedly...but buck fever may get the better of them after all I bet...but Ive hard many from the hunting side starting to take notice FINALLY of all the restriction and planning to "fight back" do their part for the cause so to speak.....
Maybe like in rochester just get Police I think it was to shoot the deer (like theydid in Durand Eastman park or whatever years ago.....
Maybe like in rochester just get Police I think it was to shoot the deer (like theydid in Durand Eastman park or whatever years ago.....
dwa12479
.338 Win Mag
That's the result of a Sheriff being an elected official vs the Troopers being appointed.
This is symptomatic of and indicative of the tyrannical state we live in.
Any tyrannical system is going to allow its control arm to have greater power than that to be controlled (you & I).
LEOs like any group of people will be diverse in their morality. Some will be drunk on that power while others will have a higher sense of true justice and see the big picture of the inequity. Most, if not all here are of the latter. While we don't have to like what the tyrants have bestowed upon them, be thankful that they are not all the former.
Recruitment and training strategies as well as the culture of various LE groups (ie. troopers vs sheriffs) are formative to the general mindset of those groups. And which of them is closest to the tyrants?
Neutering those that consider themselves citizens first along with us just so we feel equal is not the answer. Growing a set is a much better option.
Any tyrannical system is going to allow its control arm to have greater power than that to be controlled (you & I).
LEOs like any group of people will be diverse in their morality. Some will be drunk on that power while others will have a higher sense of true justice and see the big picture of the inequity. Most, if not all here are of the latter. While we don't have to like what the tyrants have bestowed upon them, be thankful that they are not all the former.
Recruitment and training strategies as well as the culture of various LE groups (ie. troopers vs sheriffs) are formative to the general mindset of those groups. And which of them is closest to the tyrants?
Neutering those that consider themselves citizens first along with us just so we feel equal is not the answer. Growing a set is a much better option.
A simple end-run around that is to whitelist select LEOs, like troopers, etc. They may still have to go through the process, but big deal, their purchase takes 5 - 10 minutes longer.
Also,
Penal Law Section 400.03
Sellers of ammunition
5. ....This requirement of this section shall not apply..(ii) a dealer or seller has been granted a waiver from conducting such background check if the superintendent of state police determines that such dealer is incapable of such check due to technological limitations that are not reasonably within the control of the dealer, or other exceptional circumstances demonstrated by the dealer, pursuant to a process established in regulation, and at the discretion of such superintendent.
WTF is that all about, I wonder? I know there was a dealer not far from me that was LEO only. Anybody else ever see anything like that?
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Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
It really is a simple as old Tom said, so many years ago, true then, true now.
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Tell your employer you will not enforce unjust, unconstitutional laws, make it known.
Robin
\Tell your employer you will not enforce unjust, unconstitutional laws, make it known.
Robin