FL cops burst into wrong apartment killing a US airmen for defending his home

T

Truebeliever

6.5 Creedmoor
Messages
2,490
Reaction score
1,622
Location
Nys
spat said:
So, you are saying that if a cop knocks on your door with his gun drawn, can you just assume he is an imminent threat and blow him away right through the door then ?
Click to expand...
Is it reasonable to believe that he is going to shoot you for no justification from an objective standard from your point of view. The answer is no. That’s the answer for your question .
Now if the officer was not identified as a police officer and did what you described , despite being a police officer , you could be justified.
 
M

Modean

.223 Rem
Messages
1,129
Reaction score
2,769
Location
Oswego County
Ba
Truebeliever said:
Is it reasonable to believe that he is going to shoot you for no justification from an objective standard from your point of view. The answer is no. That’s the answer for your question .
Now if the officer was not identified as a police officer and did what you described , despite being a police officer , you could be justified.
Click to expand...
Based on your opinions, it's completely reasonable to assume a cop at the door is an imminent threat, and by your "book" that imminent threat should be met with immediate lethal force. It's all about Citizen Safely.....citizens will die if we don't react this way.
 
T

Truebeliever

6.5 Creedmoor
Messages
2,490
Reaction score
1,622
Location
Nys
Modean said:
Ba

Based on your opinions, it's completely reasonable to assume a cop at the door is an imminent threat, and by your "book" that imminent threat should be met with immediate lethal force. It's all about Citizen Safely.....citizens will die if we don't react this way.
Click to expand...
We are going to disagree on that . How many times does a cop pull his gun on someone as in the training and no one gets shot . And those who do, generally is justified .
The average patrol cop never shoots someone in their whole career but might draw numerous times a day or week on the threat .
Courts have recognized this .
 
RedBreast21

RedBreast21

6.5 Creedmoor
Messages
1,546
Reaction score
2,546
Location
Westchester county
Truebeliever said:
You are wrong. It is imminent threat and officer would be justified. Go look at similar incidents around the country where gun ownership is common. The officer is justified there too.
If you come to the door like that , and know it’s the police there, you can get yourself shot . Not a bright idea.
Someone posted the Mas Ayood video .Gi watch it . He worked all over the country on this issue .
Click to expand...
Oh okay. :ROFL:You said "You are wrong"

I read your other responses. There is no reason to engage further as its not a discussion with you.
 
RedBreast21

RedBreast21

6.5 Creedmoor
Messages
1,546
Reaction score
2,546
Location
Westchester county
1341 said:
Then there's those pesky words "reasonably believe" dropped in all over Article 35.
Click to expand...
Not really. They decide "reasonably" when charging, not you. Will an officer get the broadest definition? Yes. You, no. I see everyone is removing context from this discussion and running purely on feelings.

My advice to you and everyone else is to speak to a defense attorney and see what they say. I have spoken to several over the years here in NY. Its not a black and white as you would believe and there is this pesky thing called case law. Very important in cases and appeals.
 
spat

spat

.700 Nitro Express
Messages
29,571
Reaction score
62,252
Location
Formerly Geneseo, NY. Now free in AZ
Truebeliever said:
Is it reasonable to believe that he is going to shoot you for no justification from an objective standard from your point of view. The answer is no. That’s the answer for your question .
Now if the officer was not identified as a police officer and did what you described , despite being a police officer , you could be justified.
Click to expand...
The uniform should not make any difference.

A drawn gun in the hands of an officer is just as dangerous as one in anybody else's hands.
 
spat

spat

.700 Nitro Express
Messages
29,571
Reaction score
62,252
Location
Formerly Geneseo, NY. Now free in AZ
Truebeliever said:
We are going to disagree on that . How many times does a cop pull his gun on someone as in the training and no one gets shot . And those who do, generally is justified .
The average patrol cop never shoots someone in their whole career but might draw numerous times a day or week on the threat .
Courts have recognized this .
Click to expand...
If you have a cop who is drawing their gun numerous times a week, let alone a day, they need to not be a cop.

You shouldn't be drawing unless you intend to fire. A badge doesn't change that.

If you can't do your job without endangering the public, and a drawn gun is a danger to the public, then you should find another job.
 
1

1341

.45 acp
Messages
285
Reaction score
278
Location
Orange County
spat said:
If you have a cop who is drawing their gun numerous times a week, let alone a day, they need to not be a cop.

You shouldn't be drawing unless you intend to fire. A badge doesn't change that.

If you can't do your job without endangering the public, and a drawn gun is a danger to the public, then you should find another job.
Click to expand...
I disagree here, sometimes you go months without touching your service weapon except to take it out of the holster to put it in your locker at EOT, other times when that radio is humming and the local hoodlums are running amuck, you might have out several times a night. All cops on here will tell you, it's what presented to you via the radio or what you see as you patrol that you might have to draw.
i.e. you get a call of a man wearing red shorts, blue shirt and a white hat waving a gun around at east and north street and you show up and there he is as plane as day, waving the gun around. Certainly puts you at a disadvantage if you leave your weapon in the holster.
 
GOPerfect

GOPerfect

.950 JDJ
U.S. Military
Messages
31,951
Reaction score
73,504
Location
No longer Secret, thanks DR. Evil
spat said:
If you have a cop who is drawing their gun numerous times a week, let alone a day, they need to not be a cop.

You shouldn't be drawing unless you intend to fire. A badge doesn't change that.

If you can't do your job without endangering the public, and a drawn gun is a danger to the public, then you should find another job.
Click to expand...


Ima gonna disagree on the point of not drawing the gun on a regular basis.

They walk into all kinds of potentially dangerous situations quite often.

A call to a business that has a breakin for example, gun is absolutely drawn.

Pull over a car for a warrant that contains a real bad guy.

Examples are endless.
 
T

Truebeliever

6.5 Creedmoor
Messages
2,490
Reaction score
1,622
Location
Nys
RedBreast21 said:
Not really. They decide "reasonably" when charging, not you. Will an officer get the broadest definition? Yes. You, no. I see everyone is removing context from this discussion and running purely on feelings.

My advice to you and everyone else is to speak to a defense attorney and see what they say. I have spoken to several over the years here in NY. It’s not a black and white as you would believe and there is this pesky thing called case law. Very important in cases and appeals.
Click to expand...
Yes. Go talk to one . Also it is discussed in formal training courses you can take. Often taught by a lawyer .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top