The war started when Kiev government sent troops to suppress break away Donbas regions. Kiev government even gave it a name, ATO (anti terrorist operation).
Things are heating up in the Donbass
- Thread starter holdover
- Start date
The war started when Kiev government sent troops to suppress break away Donbas regions. Kiev government even gave it a name, ATO (anti terrorist operation).
Responds in what way is the real question.
If Russia uses Nukes, which they will not, they will be used because of the US policy and involvement.
I really do wonder; how many actually understand this Russia/Ukraine conflict?
I wonder how many looked back, 20-30 years to the start of this all?
I wonder how many looked back, 20-30 years to the start of this all?
spat
.950 JDJ
Wouldn't that mean the war started when rebels in Donbass started a civil war ?
When was the US Civil War started ? Was it at Ft Sumpter, or was it when the first English built warships were delivered to the confederacy ?
Rebels declared Independence and took over local government. War started when Kiev sent troops.
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spat
.950 JDJ
So, Ukraine invaded Ukraine, and that started a war with Russia ?
Interesting take.
What do you think Putin will do about the NATO offer here ?
Zelenskyy says NATO offer for Ukraine-controlled territory could end 'hot stage' of war
An offer of NATO membership to territory under Kyiv’s control would end “the hot stage of the war” in Ukraine, but any proposal to join the military alliance should be extended to all parts of the country that fall under internationally recognized borders, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said in a...
So, Ukraine invaded Ukraine, and that started a war with Russia ?
Interesting take.
What do you think Putin will do about the NATO offer here ?
Zelenskyy says NATO offer for Ukraine-controlled territory could end 'hot stage' of war
An offer of NATO membership to territory under Kyiv’s control would end “the hot stage of the war” in Ukraine, but any proposal to join the military alliance should be extended to all parts of the country that fall under internationally recognized borders, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said in a...www.yahoo.com
Regardless of Russia's demands and conditions, the war in Ukraine was already going on when Russia invaded. This doesn't parallel WWII attacks and invasions by axis.
NATO is part of a problem, it can't be a part of the solution. Any peace deal should be mediated by a neutral country. In the end the winning side will set the terms.
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spat
.950 JDJ
LoL, good luck finding a neutral country.
No, I was more interested in what you think Putin's reaction would be if NATO follows through with their idea to accept all the currenyly unoccupied Ukranian territory into NATO.
Would Putin still strike into that territory ?
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
You mean the Russian fueled insurgency in Donbas which is, well was, inside the agreed upon boundaries within the sovereign state of Ukraine.
Mincing word doesn't change facts.
Robin
Well, Sunday is nearly passed us by and no Nukes.... Kind of getting bummed....
Yes.
spat
.950 JDJ
Then Ukraine gets to yell "Article V" and NATO has the pretext to conduct airstrikes on all the invading troops.
Might not be a great plan for him.
But, he seems to have a pattern of that with Ukraine.
Russians will neutralize air bases with Oreshniks if they will be used to attack Russian troops.
spat
.950 JDJ
No, it says that they will send whatever aid they believe is appropriate. Whether that's 10,000 sorties with F35s, or a case of MREs is up to the sending nations.
But, if you have nations itching to intervene, it certainly gives them an excuse.
spat
.950 JDJ
LoL, no they won't.
The first Oreshnik that NATO has to shoot down will be the end of all Oreshnik's within range of Russia's eastern border.
You just don't get how out classed Russia is here.
Remember what happened to Iraq in 1991 ? This would be like that, but more.
1000 F35s >> a dozen F117s
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Well did you ask them? You really think the Imperial Japaneese Navy was going to allow it?? LOL, Hell fuck no they werent going to stand for it . The country required oil , On who's authority was the embargo Justified? Did you ever hear of thing called provocation?
"Provocation of war" :
an intentional act or series of actions designed to incite or provoke another nation into starting a war, often by creating a perceived threat or grievance, sometimes through deceptive tactics, to justify a preemptive strike or retaliatory action; essentially, deliberately instigating conflict through aggressive behavior or rhetoric.
The Japaneese were taking over all of the Europeans provinces in the pacific British , French, Spanish that was one of the reasons the war began . The oil embargo was a provocation used for the US to enter the war. Japan knew the might of the American military, and her only chance was to destroy the fleet at Pearl harbor, and hopefully they would be to bogged down with the war in Europe and Jan could later negotiate a deal.
In any case, NATO exspansion into Ukriane was a provocation by the west With the intention of destroying the entire Russian economy and a break up of Russia into sepreate countries , Ukraine was just a means to an end.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
You do know those are hypersonic and cant be shot down right?
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
you dont need CNN , for christs sake thier fathers fought along side the NAZI's in ww2 in the waffen ss divisions its their national heritage, and when you see the dead and POW with NAzi tattoos its a clue . there were real NAZIS in Ukraine, probably not a whole lot of them left now.
In Ukraine, the Waffen-SS Division "Galicia" has not been recognized as a belligerent at the state level. Nevertheless, their activities are honoured at the local level. In addition to the annual marches dedicated to this military formation, Lviv has several memorial plaques in honour of the Division "Galicia" soldiers. There is a small museum dedicated exclusively to the history of the First Ukrainian Division of the Ukrainian National Army, which is located in the Lviv secondary school number 34 and founded by a history teacher, Ihor Fedyk, who also authors a blog on Ukrainian history. The division is mentioned in the exposition of the Liberation Struggle Museum. It is also worth mentioning a monument honouring the soldiers of the Division "Galicia", along with the soldiers of the Ukrainian Galician Army and the Ukrainian Insurgent Army as well as the Ukrainian Armed Forces soldiers who died in 2014-2018 during the Russian-Ukrainian war. It is this location of the monument and the inscription "Here rests an unknown soldier of the Division "Galicia", who gave his life for the freedom of the Ukrainian people" that links the idea of creating the division and its operations with the idea of struggle for independence, not mentioning, however, the division's being part of the Waffen-SS troops.
| 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS | ||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 14. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS 14-та гренадерська дивізія СС
|
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
What do you think Putin will do about the NATO offer here ?
Zelenskyy says NATO offer for Ukraine-controlled territory could end 'hot stage' of war
An offer of NATO membership to territory under Kyiv’s control would end “the hot stage of the war” in Ukraine, but any proposal to join the military alliance should be extended to all parts of the country that fall under internationally recognized borders, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said in a...
What would you do? They openly admitted the Maidan agreement was a ruse to buy time to arm Ukraine. They said they would not seek further expansion and they did . any agreement isnt worth the paper its printed on . The credibility of the west has been compromised . Making a deal with liars who want to destroy your country, So they can move NATO troops into western ukraine (for humanitarian purposes of course) and rearm her ?
From the link:
“You can’t give an invitation to just one part of a country," Zelenskyy said in an excerpt of the interview with Sky News. "Why? Because thus you would recognize that Ukraine is only that territory of Ukraine and the other one is Russia.”
Under the Ukrainian Constitution, Ukraine can't recognize territory occupied by Russia as Russian.
So Russia gets to keep what they already have, then has to allow NATO into western ukraine which is why the war began in the first place
Im going to go out on limb here and say, Neyt, Not even a consideration.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
On what grounds would the US attack Russia with Nukes ? Assuming They hit Ukraine already? whats your justification for global nuclear war? We have no alliances with Ukraine as Im sure you know. wheres the causus belli for war with Russia?
and would you do it to Isreal if they attacked Iran with Nukes?
I dont see the justification for war here. If they hit London or Paris , I get it we may be obliged , We have no obligation to Ukraine.
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spat
.950 JDJ
Or, and I'm just spitballing here, Japan could have minded their own business and *not* attacked their neighbors, and they wouldn't have gotten the sun dropped on them twice.
Seems like that would have been a *much* better plan in the long term.
Putin seems to be determined to follow the same course.
spat
.950 JDJ
I don't think the US would nuke Russia unless Russia nuked US territory or troops first.
But, we don't need to. We can handily eliminate their entire ability to wage war without them.
That would include their nuclear weapons.
spat
.950 JDJ
So, what would or even could Russia *do* about it ?
They can sit back and say nyet all they want, but are they going to fire on NATO troops or invade NATO territory, or not.
spat
.950 JDJ
You do know nearly all ballistic missiles are hypersonic, right ?
Including the SCUDs we were shooting down with Patriots 30 years ago.
The THAAD is basically only used on hypersonic weapons.
We shoot down sattelites. Do you know how fast a satellite is traveling?
I'll give you a hint, it's almost 3x as fast as the Oreshnik.
"Hypersonic" doesn't mean can't be shot down anywhere but Russian and Chinese propaganda.
spat
.950 JDJ
Russia had no right to invade Ukraine, whether that agreement was in place or not.
What were the terms again ?
Scuds could barely get past mach4. Russia's new missiles are in excess of Mach 10.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Russia invaded on the grounds of national security. we went into Iraq and afganistan on the grounds of national security. WMD's
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
spat
.950 JDJ
Scuds were Mach 5, which is the threshold for hypersonic.
THAAD was specifically designed to shoot down IRBMs like the Oreshnik.
It is nothing new. IRBMs have been around since the 70s, and Oreshnik is a bog standard IRBM.