spat
.700 Nitro Express
Are you aware of how many alcohol related deaths we had during prohibition ?
From people drinking black market hooch laced with methanol, ethylene glycol, or any number of other bullshit ?
Marcy Correction Guards on video released by Jumbo James brutalizing cuffed prisoner who later died.
- Thread starter VietnamEraVet
- Start date
From people drinking black market hooch laced with methanol, ethylene glycol, or any number of other bullshit ?
Not all Nicotine is the same either:
No, while all forms of nicotine share the same basic chemical structure, they may not be exactly the same due to differences in their source, such as "synthetic nicotine" which is lab-created and can have slightly different properties compared to nicotine derived directly from tobacco plants
spat
.700 Nitro Express
The only active ingredient in both is still cocaine.
Crack *is* cocaine. Yes, it's prepared differently, and that makes it hit more quickly, but it is literally the same drug.
Just like you would get drunk nearly instantly if you injected enthanol. It's still ethanol.
You can take a vicodin pill and crush it and snort it and it would hit much harder. That doesn't mean it isn't still vicodin.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Some subtle differences, yes, but nothing substantial.
If it was enough to make a material difference then it would be a different chemical.
Sure, but, Crack is much different than Coke due to how it is cooked and prepared. Chemical make up of the two is quite different.
The problem is their drug use will affect others. I certainly would expect to see more auto accidents or workplace accidents.
Much like everything including water, the dosage makes the poison.
Pure nicotine would kill you as fast as Fentanyl.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
You're assuming the rate of drug use would increase. I don't think there's any evidence to support that idea.
I think we'll have the same junkies we always had. Maybe fewer if we just let them off themselves.
There's no evidence to suggest the opposite either. It certainly makes logical sense. If drugs are legal you don't think more people will try them? Really?
You really think if guns were legal it wouldn't be the wild west?
IrishMick
.44 mag
And..........Thread officially derailed!
Apples and oranges.
2 potentially dangerous items that one side of the isle wants banned and both sides claim if we legalize them the crimes involving them will increase.
It's not really apples and oranges, just more a logical inconsistency exposed.
stokes
.338 Win Mag
No, its not identical and the pharmaceutical effect is not the same. When cocaine is processed from the plant it's base is a hydrochloride salt, pharmaecuticaly it is used as a topical numbing agent. "freebase" sound familiar? Crack is processed and the hydrochloride base is removed and it is no longer water soluable and cannot be used like cocaine, it can only be smoked. It is metabolized instantly when ingested in the lungs, cocaine goes thru a slower metabolic process when ingested. And as for nicotine, you are obviously not a smoker and dont know the difference between smoking and nicotine patches and gum, there is a big difference.
stokes
.338 Win Mag
Maybe it should be moved to the "Snowmageddon" thread
Your premise is absurd. People buy guns all the time and don't use them to shoot other people. In fact the vast majority of guns that are purchased are never used in anger. Yet if people buy drugs it will be with the express intent of using them. Your position doesn't hold up to the slightest scrutiny.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Tell me, can a drug test tell which kind of cocaine someone took ?
No, because they are all metabolized the same.
Are you claiming that a syringe of ethanol is a different drug than a shot glass full of it ?
Sure, the effects kick in faster via one route than another, and the *habit* if taking it one way vs another is important, but the actual pharmaceutical effect in the body is the same, only difference is speed.
Plus, what actual difference does this make in the context of this conversation anyway ? Has someone advocated legalizing powder cocaine but not crack ?
No, you're sneaking things in again.
The topic at hand is whether the items should be legal or not. The topic isn't what people then do with them. We already have laws for actions taken against others be it with guns or while high.
Notwithstanding, the vast majority of drug users are functioning, as mentioned previously in this thread. That's irrelevant to whether or not they should be legal.
No, I wasn’t, seriously. More than now??
Maybe it’s just more people doing it in the open but I KNOW that since marijuana has been legalized I notice the scent a substantial amount of time more, walking into the gym, while I’m in temporary work zones on the bridge from people driving by, teeny boppers walking by in the mall , etc. It definitely seems more prevalent since it’s been legalized. Right down to the goddam billboards advertising the dispensaries everywhere. We can advertise for pot but not cigarettes? Society has lost its goddam mind, figuratively and literally. You cannot honestly believe that legalization doesn’t lead to more use
I contend the legalization of drugs will have much more harmful effects than legalizing guns. Philosophically there is merit to the argument that people should be free to do what they want whether it is buying guns or drugs. I just don't kid myself it will be all unicorns and rainbows once we legalize drugs (i.e. the cartels will be broken for lack of funds, no more jailing people for possession, etc.). I believe there will be plenty of unfortunate outcomes if we legalize drugs and that, on balance, legalization could actually be worse (just in different ways). And good luck putting that genie back in the bottle if society reverses course and wants to make drugs illegal again.
The current situation is bad. But it could get even worse.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
There's some evidence that drinking among young people actually *increased* because of prohibition.
Do you really think there's a lot of people out there who are like "I'd smoke crack if only it wasn't illegal" ?
kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
I bet there are a metric shit ton of teens and twenty -somethings who would try crack if offered to them when they were 6-10 beers deep if it were available. Look how many take and OD on random pills. That being said, I'm firmly in the 'legalize everything ' camp.
Anyway, back on topic, if the state would treat COs like the professionals they are, and make it legal for them to dole out bearings as they deem appropriate, these fellas wouldn't be in the predicament they're in.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
There's some evidence that they are *more* likely to take that offer if it's illegal.
The alcohol that those teens got drunk on is already illegal for them. You think the law for the drugs is going to change their mind ?
"If it were available". You are making the classic mistake of assuming that being illegal makes it less available. It doesn't. It's completely available to them now. Won't get any more available if it's legalized.
Thats what I’m saying. I honestly believe there would be more “crack” user if legalized. Dumb , uninformed people, AKA kids, that are literally and sub-consciously think that it can’t be that bad for you if it’s legalized?!?!?
stokes
.338 Win Mag
kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
I have no data to back this up, but I believe more people would try smoking crack if it were sold in gas stations and bodegas like caffeine pills and boner pills.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Some of the problems are discussed here
Unintended Consequences | Prohibition | Ken Burns | PBS
The story of the rise, rule, and fall of prohibition and the entire era it encompassed. Full film now streaming.
www.pbs.org
And actual statistics here
POV: The 100th Anniversary of Prohibition Reminds Us That Bans Rarely Work
Ultimately, it did not result in a significant or lasting drop in alcohol consumption, argues Questrom School of Business lecturer Jay Zagorsky.
www.bu.edu
Initially alcohol use dropped drastically once prohibition was enacted, but after a couple years once organized crime got hold it was back over 70% of the level from when it was legal.
While it dropped for some demographics, it actually increased for others.
And obviously respect for the rule law went right out the window for the majority of the country.
Turns out having laws that people think are bad makes people lose respect for the law in general. The damage that does to a society cannot be overstated.
stokes
.338 Win Mag
Crack is and always has been more of a ghetto drug. Most suburban and rural kids wont go to the ghettto to get it. Make it legal and it opens up the market. Not that it isnt available at all in rural and suburban areas but not as widely, besides they got enough meth to keep them happy in those areas