Fort Scott 9mm

Marine Cpl

Marine Cpl

.577 Tyrannosaur.
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
20,632
Location
Orange County
It penetrates pistol armor and doesn't do too bad in gel. Videos below for those who like YouTube.

Gel Test.

Armor

Cinder block.
 
dwa12479

dwa12479

.338 Win Mag
Messages
7,275
Reaction score
14,976
Location
Dark Side of the Moon
But it's not a .45..........
shit-storm.gif
 
Uzi

Uzi

.308 Win
Messages
3,062
Reaction score
3,489
Location
Phoenix, Arizona
I'd rather use something like the RIP ammo design for self defense. I like the idea of metal pedals almost instantly fragmenting into the gel as soon as it penetrates leaving more than several separate wound channels and increasing chances of more organ failure maybe an artery hit and increased blood loss. A little bit of insurance in case the hit wasn't placed very well. That ammo seems more like SHTF were people might be wearing light armor or something.
 
Marine Cpl

Marine Cpl

.577 Tyrannosaur.
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
20,632
Location
Orange County
Uzi said:
I'd rather use something like the RIP ammo design for self defense. I like the idea of metal pedals almost instantly fragmenting into the gel as soon as it penetrates leaving more than several separate wound channels and increasing chances of more organ failure maybe an artery hit and increased blood loss. A little bit of insurance in case the hit wasn't placed very well. That ammo seems more like SHTF were people might be wearing light armor or something.
Click to expand...
If gel were a 1 to 1 ratio on a body, I'd agree with you but it isn't. You can tear off a piece of gel with your fingers but not so on a body. To put things into perspective, a gel is calibrated by firing a BB into it. If it penetrates 3 to 4 inches, the gel is calibrated. Now you fire that same BB into a body, and it will barely break the skin.

So when you see these light hollow points fragment 4 inches into the gel, what does that tell you? Those fragments didn't reach vitals.

They have to penetrate at least 12 inches in gel to reach vitals on a human. Not too many chests are 12 inches deep but if it does that in gel, it'll penetrate the 3 or so inches through skin and bones in a body. Some fat guys are 12 inches deep and some people are shot from an angle. That's why they want 12 to 18 inches in gel. 18 being preferable for the big guys or side shots and 12 being the minimum for frontal.

Bullet Effectiveness -- what's the big deal about 12" penetration anyway?
 
Last edited:
Uzi

Uzi

.308 Win
Messages
3,062
Reaction score
3,489
Location
Phoenix, Arizona
Willjr75 said:
If gel were a 1 to 1 ratio on a body, I'd agree with you but it isn't. You can tear off a piece of gel with your fingers but not so on a body. To put things into perspective, a gel is calibrated by firing a BB into it. If it penetrates 3 to 4 inches, the gel is calibrated. Now you fire that same BB into a body, and it will barely break the skin.

So when you see these light hollow points fragment 4 inches into the gel, what does that tell you? Those fragments didn't reach vitals.

They have to penetrate at least 12 inches in gel to reach vitals on a human. Not too many chests are 12 inches deep. Some are though if shot from an angle that's why they want 12 to 18 inches in gel. 18 being preferable and 12 being the minimum.
Click to expand...

I'm aware of the differences with gel. That round over penetrated though, it went straight through the block. I have a pretty good feeling that the rip ammo would penetrate well past the skin too, there's still a bullet behind those breakaway petals anyways. It's nothing like a bb....
 
Marine Cpl

Marine Cpl

.577 Tyrannosaur.
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
20,632
Location
Orange County
Uzi said:
I'm aware of the differences with gel. That round over penetrated though, it went straight through the block. I have a pretty good feeling that the rip ammo would penetrate well past the skin too, there's still a bullet behind those breakaway petals anyways. It's nothing like a bb....
Click to expand...
Are you sure. You said RIP.

 
Uzi

Uzi

.308 Win
Messages
3,062
Reaction score
3,489
Location
Phoenix, Arizona
Willjr75 said:
Are you sure. You said RIP.

Click to expand...

Yup, I'm sure. This brings me back around in the little circle I end up running around in often. I'm not the kind of guy that thinks 22lr and different types of unique ammo aren't deadly enough because a youtuber said so with his gelatin block. I'm also not the kind of guy that thinks because a 45acp is moving slower than other rounds that it won't be adequate enough to carry either. I'm not saying I do carry or own that ammo or think it performs amazingly well, but I do believe it's capable and worthy of carrying for self defense. I've seen more than enough shootings to know that shot placement is more important than what caliber or bullet you use.
 
Marine Cpl

Marine Cpl

.577 Tyrannosaur.
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
20,632
Location
Orange County
Uzi said:
Yup, I'm sure. This brings me back around in the little circle I end up running around in often. I'm not the kind of guy that thinks 22lr and different types of unique ammo aren't deadly enough because a youtuber said so with his gelatin block. I'm also not the kind of guy that thinks because a 45acp is moving slower than other rounds that it won't be adequate enough to carry either. I'm not saying I do carry or own that ammo or think it performs amazingly well, but I do believe it's capable and worthy of carrying for self defense. I've seen more than enough shootings to know that shot placement is more important than what caliber or bullet you use.
Click to expand...
1. In the original posts I said for those that like YouTube since there are those who would rather take the word of Joe the cop or Stan the gunshop clerk.

2. He is not the only one that came with the exact same result. There are other videos out there that produce the exact same result. You can Google them. I won't be the nice guy and help a brother out anymore. You do the homework from now on.

3. Properly calibrated gel is properly calibrated gel no matter who uses it. Improperly calibrated gel equals more penetration since it's softer.

4. You don't get to say that you like how a bullet performs via a gel test from the manufacturer posted on YouTube and then say you don't accept multiple tests from others on YouTube because it's YouTube and you don't like the results.

5. I never said that the. 45 ACP is inadequate for self defense. I said it's inadequate for barrier penetration due to speed. Whether barriers are a factor to you in self defense is entirely up to you. If they are, research it. There isn't a vast conspiracy between YouTubers making the .45 ACP fail on hard barriers. You can find results from outside of YouTube if you like.

6. A .22 lr from a handgun can indeed kill you. It may not if it hits bone or has to travel through an arm to get to your vitals however. Because of that, it isn't optimal. That's why cops and military do not carry it. They carry rounds and calibers that make it through bone into vitals from all angles and also penetrate common barriers.

7. I have learned a lot from guys throughout the years on the NY forums. I have also learned from others on other national based forums. I had my opinions just like you but after being proven wrong, I researched on my own to make sure I was wrong. Instead of getting all pissy because you don't like the results on the opinion you've based not on fact, take some time to research on your own and learn if what you are saying is correct.
 
Last edited:
Podmonkey

Podmonkey

.577 Tyrannosaur.
U.S. Military
Messages
21,662
Reaction score
30,296
Location
Cambria co. PA
Broken record but, Federal HST, any flavor. I like the 147gr standard pressure. I'm burning through my 124gr stock to replace them with the 147s.
 
Marine Cpl

Marine Cpl

.577 Tyrannosaur.
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
20,632
Location
Orange County
Yea. Federal. That's my only carry other than the Buffalo Bore Outdoors ammo when hiking.

I'm curious to why 147 gr? It opens up slightly more but penetrates less than the 124 gr. You also loose velocity bringing it down to about 900 fps from a short barrel.

That's threading into ACP velocities there. :eek:
 
Podmonkey

Podmonkey

.577 Tyrannosaur.
U.S. Military
Messages
21,662
Reaction score
30,296
Location
Cambria co. PA
Willjr75 said:
Yea. Federal. That's my only carry other than the Buffalo Bore Outdoors ammo when hiking.

I'm curious to why 147 gr? It opens up slightly more but penetrates less than the 124 gr. You also loose velocity bringing it down to about 950 fps from a short barrel.

That's threading into ACP velocities there. :eek:
Click to expand...
You've got that backwards. More penetration, less expansion.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top