My Son's Class Discussion

[Dr. Evil]

My 17 year old is a senior in high school. He has an economics class where the teacher is a conservative in the sea of liberalism lol. We have had discussions and agree on just about everything. So he is having his class discuss gun rights, the 2nd amendment, etc.. I have been giving my son a lot of stuff that would help him articulate his views which is obviously just like ours. Many kids in the class will have the typical, "Why does anyone need an AR", "You don't need 30 rounds for self defense", "Why not have laws like Britain or Australia", typical sheep talking points, etc.. I figured I would post here and see if there was anything I missed giving him in order to position his side. Feel free to give links if needed. Thanks.

 

[GOYABEAN]

My 17 year old is a senior in high school. He has an economics class where the teacher is a conservative in the sea of liberalism lol. We have had discussions and agree on just about everything. So he is having his class discuss gun rights, the 2nd amendment, etc.. I have been giving my son a lot of stuff that would help him articulate his views which is obviously just like ours. Many kids in the class will have the typical, "Why does anyone need an AR", "You don't need 30 rounds for self defense", "Why not have laws like Britain or Australia", typical sheep talking points, etc.. I figured I would post here and see if there was anything I missed giving him in order to position his side. Thanks.

Oh Boy I think it's going to be very interesting

 

[Target]

BFYTW

I'm sure that you've armed the lad well for his foray behind enemy lines.

 

[Dr. Evil]

BFYTW

I'm sure that you've armed the lad well for his foray behind enemy lines.

I've done my best but many of you guys may have a better way of putting things or say something I have overlooked.

 

[Celt]

Well a common response for people that say why do you need an AR or 30 round magazines is pretty simple. The AR-15 functions just like regular hunting rifle but it is more adjustable for a wider range of shooters which is good to fit multiple different sizes of people, and regular hunting rifles can accept 30 round magazines too.

Arguments against magazine restrictions is that 30 round magazines are easily accessible and bad guys can easily get them which leaves good people at a disadvantage. And they are just proven to be ineffective in reducing violent crime.

FBI statistics show that the assault weapons ban of 1994 had zero impact on reducing gun related crimes. They actually slightly increased between 1994 and 2004.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Also countering that some people say that the laws need to change because these are different times. You know, that the US constitution is a living document. Counters please.

 

[GuyMontag]

Doc, did you know that "automatic weapons" like the ones used in Sandy Hook and Lakeland need to banned??


I've had 2 people in the past week tell me about those "assault rifles" and "automatic weapons" they heard about on the news. It's a damn full time job to educate the average joe/jane who doesn't own firearms but thinks getting information from those who want them banned are reliable sources.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Doc, did you know that "automatic weapons" like the ones used in Sandy Hook and Lakeland need to banned??


I've had 2 people in the past week tell me about those "assault rifles" and "automatic weapons" they heard about on the news. It's a damn full time job to educate the average joe/jane who doesn't own firearms but thinks getting information from those who want them banned are reliable sources.

Tell me about it. I had a patient yesterday that told me a bullet from AR causes the liver to explode compared to other guns. She said she saw some video or something proving this.

 

[TheMoneyPit]

Another piece of bullshit fake news I’ve heard twice in the last 24 hours was that ar15 are not good for anything other than killing people and they are not even good for hunting because the bullet “just tears apart the meat”

 

[GOYABEAN]

Tell me about it. I had a patient yesterday that told me a bullet from AR causes the liver to explode compared to other guns. She said she saw some video or something proving this.

Those must be the one's loaded with alcohol and dipped in butter !

 

[kev74]

Why does anyone need an AR or 30 rounds?

Why does Bloomberg need $50 billion or Soros need $8 billion? They're doing more to hurt the democratic process in this country than anyone's guns.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I already covered the whole "cars weren't designed to kill people and guns were" with him.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Why does anyone need an AR or 30 rounds?

Why does Bloomberg need $50 billion or Soros need $8 billion? They're doing more to hurt the democratic process in this country than anyone's guns.

I know but people need a direct connection to killing that they don't see with money compared to bullets. Just trying to play Democrat devil's advocate.

 

[Celt]

Also countering that some people say that the laws need to change because these are different times. You know, that the US constitution is a living document. Counters please.

Certain things do not change even when time Carries On. And considering times do change that is exactly why the founders left Provisions to amend the Constitution. So if people don't agree or they think times have changed they need to push for a constitutional convention. Also, semiautomatic weapons were in existence back during the time of the founding. And it is important for people to remember that in the Federalist Papers, in articles number 29 and 46 the founders went on to explain the intent of the Second Amendment which was to have the common citizen armed equal to the military for the purpose of defending the nation against a foreign Invader or domestic insurrection. And as the modern infantry Soldier has aquired new weapons so must the citizenry.

Additionally, we can compare it to the First Amendment. The founders did not Envision the internet where anybody can log on and tell lies or a corrupt media. So if you want to change the Second Amendment because times have changed then we should change the First Amendment too.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

If you are being attacked by multiple assailants and according to the impeccable FBI in shootouts you will have less than perfect accuracy.

If you are attacked by 3or 4 people, 10 bullets will not be enough. Especially if they are hopped up on drugs it might take more than 1 or 2 hits per attacker to eliminate the threat.
What if the multiple attackers all have guns?


Use the 1st amendment analogy that I love. If they claim the founding fathers couldn't envision modern guns and that they should not be protected. Remind them that if that is true then they also couldn't have envisioned telephones, tvs, magazines, the internet, social media, radio etc but that is all 1st amendment protected.

That when the 2a was created the guns civilians had were common and equivalent to their military arms of the day

The 2a is not about protecting hunting rights or hunting guns but individuals liberty and ensures checks and bakances on a tyrannical government. And ensuring you are able to defend yourself.


Just a few ideas

 

[Dr. Evil]

I actually started a different thread to keep things neat and orderly. Let's move to here. Point Counterpoint Thread

 

[Dr. Evil]

I was talking with my son a little while ago. He was reading me some responses to something online about arming teachers. He was responding to a person who was against it. I guess he has been paying attention to me over the years. He answered the guy really well with succinct points and great information to counter his stupidity. Made me very proud that the concrete has set well lol.

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

 

[Saltwater60]

Doc, did you know that "automatic weapons" like the ones used in Sandy Hook and Lakeland need to banned??


I've had 2 people in the past week tell me about those "assault rifles" and "automatic weapons" they heard about on the news. It's a damn full time job to educate the average joe/jane who doesn't own firearms but thinks getting information from those who want them banned are reliable sources.

I just had to tell my wife again today that AR-15’s don’t firenin full auto or 3 shot burst that civilians have. I don’t know what the hell
Is wrong with her. I’ve told her this before. Well she heard it on Facebook. These asshats have no clue.

 

[SmallGameAddict]

I could answer those kids questions in one sentence...Defense of the State, and of the United States.

 

[Saltwater60]

My advice is stick to the facts and facts only. This will shit them down. My opinion the left will ban Ar’s then say well that didn’t do much and they are just using pistols now so let’s ban those.

The facts are less than 300 per year killed with all riffles. About 3%. Peoples hand kill more than riffles.
More die in DUI crashes than are murdered in USA.
I like to use percentages because it is such a minuscule percent it’s not even funny. So riffles kill 0.000079% of people. Seems ridiculous to even think about.
Medical mistakes kill more than guns. Ban DRs. How Many Die From Medical Mistakes in U.S. Hospitals? — ProPublica

More die in car crashes than murders and yet there are more guns than cars in the USA.
California has highest murder rate in USA yet has the highest gun death rate. Places like Vermont, Idaho, and Maine have almost no murders yet have very lax gun laws. If guns were a problem how come those places don’t have that issue. Many armed people in those states as well.

I can keep going if you need me too.

 

[Defilade]

Print some meme's off. A picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[Acer-m14]

1 or 4 bad guys that don't follow laws break in ( that's a law ..breaking and entering ) .. with AR's and 30 rnd mags they stole ( there banned) ...911 is 10 minutes away or more ... Evil will not obey Laws !!!! ... you have a nurtured AR or a mini14 and only 10 rnd mag thanks to gun laws .. who wins ?? ..

go back to just the laws .. forget the item .. but keep it as a key point .. murder is law .. what other law will stop it .. ?? assault is a law .. make another to stop it .. show the redundancy .. wither its a knife or hammer or gun .. Rape is against the law .. so do we wack off all the males junk to stop it ??? or do we ban the vajajay .. omg this could get wild @Dr. Evil LOL ..

.. why can't I protect my life with a NUKE if needed ??

 

[Uninformed and Compliant]

Schemes that require the attacker to COOPERATE are nothing more than delusional arrogance.

Mass shootings are a lot like spawn camping. The people who put up "gun free zone" signs are the same idiots that type, "STOP CAMPING THE SPAWN POINT" in general chat in all caps, as if that's going to work. And make no mistake - the idiots who type that shit? They think it will.

Q: "Why does anyone need an AR15?'
A: "They don't. A person intent on mass murder can do so, as effectively or even moreso, with any semiautomatic rifle or pistol."
Q: "Why does anyone need a semiautomatic?"
A: "They don't. A person intent on mass murder can do so, more effectively, without using a firearm at all. "
Q: "So, why do they always use an AR15?"
A: "Because you keep selling them on the concept that the AR15 terrifies you, the most."
Q: "Then why have any laws at all?"
A: "Laws are not for stopping behavior. Laws are not something a moral person will obey. Laws are something we MAY ABIDE. Laws are for protecting the guilty with uniform trial standards and prescribed justice that we will deem acceptable, and we agree not seek justice of our own accord. That's why we 'cling' to it so tightly, and insist that Govt OBEY it and serve that function. When law no longer serves that purpose, we no longer have reason to abide it. And may God have mercy on those who transgress, that day."
Q: "So, nukes for all? Tanks? Mortars?"
A: "The only limit a Right may have is that it not directly harm the rights and properties of an innocent other.
Can a mortar be kept, and fired, without harming an innocent neighbor? Sure can, if you have the land.
Can a tank be kept, driven, and fired, without harming an innocent neighbor? Duh, it sure can.
Can I have a 10, or 20, or 30, or 100 or 1,000 round magazine on my AR15 without harming an innocent neighbor? Duh.
Can a nuke be used to defend yourself without harming an innocent neighbor? Your question was stupid."

 

[DoD1776]

Wtf I thought I was ur son!

 

[Exonautic]

Another piece of bullshit fake news I’ve heard twice in the last 24 hours was that ar15 are not good for anything other than killing people and they are not even good for hunting because the bullet “just tears apart the meat”

I've heard that bit about destroying the meat and pelt over and over and it's genuinely starting to piss me off the level of stupidity required to believe that.

 

[Criticalt]

150,000,000 gun owners with 300,000,000+ guns.....

If we were the problem, you would know it.

Class dismissed.

 

[Toecutter]

I dont take advice about violence from someone who has never encountered violence.

 

[Target]

They think that only 3% of Americans own guns. I've seen this "fact" several times. A quick Google search says 37%.
As if anyone here would tell some clown over the phone .

 

[Catskillkid]

They think that only 3% of Americans own guns. I've seen this "fact" several times. A quick Google search says 37%.
As if anyone here would tell some clown over the phone .

I can almost guarantee you that that number is well over 50% or more. People don't self-report for many obvious reasons.