@71velle not true I've I've deff watched gun blast love all up on the Remington R51 lol
Can 10mm Save the 1911?
- Thread starter Marine Cpl
- Start date
If you accuse me of liking that piece of crap we are fighting!!!
Hahahahah no man I would never, I mean that would just be mean.
I'm saying actual gun blast did a video prerelease and talked that shit up lmao,
I remember watching it way back when I was waiting for my permit to be approved thinking oh man when that gun comes out damn I want it then it came out and I was like hahahahaha no thanks
So, I was able to talk to a guy that works with the state police and he said the 45 GAP pistols will be replaced with 45 ACP ones.
I dont look at what the agencies use at a guide as whats best, but with all the data available on the 45 ACP they must thought it was a better choice than the other available calibers.
I dont look at what the agencies use at a guide as whats best, but with all the data available on the 45 ACP they must thought it was a better choice than the other available calibers.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I wouldn't put any credence into their selection. Those decisions are usually made by aa chief or superintendent. For one they chose the .45 Gap previously.
Other NYS agencies like the court system require only 147 gr for carry on the job no matter what the brand. Again that decision is made by a chief or superintendent.
Those decisions are made on the extensive testing. It's just what the guy likes.
There is nothing wrong with the 45 GAP as it delivers the same performance as 45 ACP. The only downside is ammo choices and pistol options. The NYS troopers are by no means a small agency without resources so when a decision like this is made you can bet is was not made by the seat of the pants.
There is no one caliber that is the magic one with the agencies but there does not seem to be any complaints that can be found among the police with the effectiveness of the 45. Cant say the same about some of the others. Here is an interesting article about how different agencies have bounced around with different calibers
Stopping Power: Finding the Right Caliber for Different Law Enforcement Agencies
Im not saying that 45 should be everyones favorite, but i do think its hard to make a good case that it is not still relevant after all these years.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
It is well known that a bullet going 800 fps slows down after going though a barrier to an even slower velocity. Especially from a 4 inch duty barrel compared to a 5 inch barrel.
Not saying it's bad but it isn't the best for the job considering the other calibers available.
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Everything slows down as it goes through something... Any decent 45 ammo is traveling at 900 to 950 fps and thats 230 grain stuff the 185 grain bullets are traveling faster. I dont know what type of barriers you feel a pistol needs to shoot through.
The main purpose of a pistol is close range combat and there are pros and cons to each caliber.
9mm carries the most ammo and has the lightest recoil. But, often times hot +p ammo is used so recoil is approaching 40
40 carries less ammo and has more recoil than 9mm, but makes bigger holes
357 has the same capacity as 40 but penetrates better at the risk of collateral damage
45 holds the least ammo but does put the biggest holes in the target.
I have yet to see any agency leave 45 because they say its not effective enough.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
930 fps is from a 5 inch barrel and you need a hot load for that. Average is Scott 850 to 900. The 185's do a little better but penetrate a bit less in soft tissue.
890 fps for HST 230 grain standard pressure. But ballistic statistics are just numbers. The track record in the field is what is most important.
An argument can be made for any of the 4 I listed above. Pick your poison...
With the track record of 45 I dont see how people can throw shade on it, even if its not their first choice. The only one I dont care for is the 357 only because of the collateral damage potential.
An argument can be made for any of the 4 I listed above. Pick your poison...
With the track record of 45 I dont see how people can throw shade on it, even if its not their first choice. The only one I dont care for is the 357 only because of the collateral damage potential.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
789 fps from a 3 inch barrel. Add a barrier in between the target and it'll be less. Just saying.
I have only fired a 10mm a few times, I love the feel!
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
Slower is better, more friction, more energy spent on target. Quit shooting at barriers and wait for a clear shot, sheesh!
Robin
Robin
I thought we were talking about full sized pistols. What do you want to shoot through?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I'm talking about the round in general for carry. As to what to shoot though, one can encounter many hard barriers where a shooter can take cover from and fire at you.
You should carry a 30 caliber rifle and not screw around with a pistol.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Or a 9mm +P, .357 Sig, .40 S&W, or 10mm in a little more concealable package.
Or a 9mm +P, .357 Sig, .40 S&W, or 10mm in a little more concealable package.
quit pussyfooting around and get a 44 magnum.
quit pussyfooting around and get a 44 magnum.
Magnum Research BFR Revolver .45-70 7.5in 5rd Stainless
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
The new 1911 offerings in 10mm seem interesting. Will they save the 1911 from obscurity? As someone else stated, I didn't realize that it needed saving. A lot of enthusiasts, and LE/Military groups, still seem to have a preference for the 1911 design. Doesn't the FBI's Hostage team use a variant of it?
There are concerns I've heard aired is in regards to reliability. I've heard a few say that the 1911 design was not specifically engineered for 10mm and that there are potential reliability issues. I have no idea how credible those concerns are. Maybe it was an issue with older 1911 platforms; I have no idea if it is relevant to the newer platforms.
There are concerns I've heard aired is in regards to reliability. I've heard a few say that the 1911 design was not specifically engineered for 10mm and that there are potential reliability issues. I have no idea how credible those concerns are. Maybe it was an issue with older 1911 platforms; I have no idea if it is relevant to the newer platforms.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
They chose the gap because they were basically free. Glock wanted to sell a bunch so they gave them to state police. Didn’t quite work out that way....
This guy has several videos of shooting the 4 calibers talked about here. Its not far for the 9mm and 45 because +p is not used and 40 and 357 are high pressure rounds, but interesting non the less. Some videos are done with fmj and others with defensive ammo. different vids do have different results but the 357 is the clear winner in the penetration.
This is just one
This is just one
The 45 GAP performance is just fine the case is actually better than the ACP.
But at the end of the day it was a solution in search of a problem...
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Revolvers are for old men with flannel shirts that are set in their ways.quit pussyfooting around and get a 44 magnum.
5 shots. No thank you. Oh! I'm mistaken. Some come in 6 shots. The military and police should upgrade to revolvers that allow only 3 double taps or less then right?
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Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I don't think you want to go down that rabbit hole. There are many videos that'll disappoint you.
Sorry but the .45 gap has been proven to be completely useless, offering no advantage over any round and compete draw backs
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
You guys are a bit obsessed with... "penetration."
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
Not size advantage over the acp?