Psychology Today Argues Firearm Training Makes Us Unethical

[Catskillkid]

Psychology Today Argues Firearm Training Makes Us Unethical

Another reason I have a distrust of those in the psychology profession.

Here's a link to the actual article quoted: Virtue and Guns

 

[Airborneguy]

Haha fuck them.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Psychology today. Nuff said. As a whole I have found the docs are more screwed up than their patients.

 

[GoodGuywitha9mm]

So... Deplorable AND unethical? Adding that to my resume! ...and "how does that make me feel???" Proud!

 

[GoodGuywitha9mm]

Haha fuck them.

Empathy also keeps us from steering our car into the oncoming lane, so should driver training also be considered unethical? The writer is a vet and a lifetime shooter? Why hasn't he disarmed himself?!? lol

 

[Deplorable Me]

So... Deplorable AND unethical? Adding that to my resume! ...and "how does that make me feel???" Proud!

Hey!

 

[Acer-m14]

Psychology today. Nuff said. As a whole I have found the docs are more screwed up than their patients.

they tried giving me the ink blot test once years and years ago .. ink ... ink ... ink ....more ink ... oh butter fly in the voice of johnny 5 ,.. they left room in the walk of shame ..

 

[Shadow2]

Psycology a half ass science invented by those who where trying to figure out why they or someone they know is fucked up. MAny are professional projectionists. Hell they created the theory of "projecting".

 

[Podmonkey]

How anybody can ethically claim such a thing without having ever attended training is beyond me......... excepting of course the such a person is expressly unethical in the first place. Having attended some training classes I can say the experience while informative and even fun is also sobering. The entire time in the back of my head I am practicing strict muzzle discipline because I know what an errant 5.56 or God forbid 308 might do. I find the training to be the opposite of desensitizing.

What is actually highly unethical is shirking one's responsibility for one's own security and demanding someone else to risk their life to protect yours even if one is capable of doing it themselves.

 

[Phazer]

Virtue and Guns

To the extent that the Gun Culture 2.0 instills in people a willingness to kill, it can be harmful to their character.⁠

No. A "willingness to defend" is more accurate. I have yet to take a defensive firearms course where anybody speaks of wanton killing. The emphasis is always on defense. As I tell anti-gunners that I work with, the ideal number of shots to fire in self defense is zero. If I am challenged by a threat, I present my firearm while shouting "Stop," and the assailant turns and runs...no shots are fired. Sure, I am "willing" to fire as many rounds as necessary to stop the threat. But, zero is an acceptable number to me.

First, a vast majority of us have a deep psychological resistance to killing other people. This is obviously a good feature of human nature. It is grounded in human empathy that recognizes others, including our enemies, as human beings. How we think about, value, and use guns may prevent us from fully appreciating these truths.

This utterly misses the values instilled by law-abiding firearms ownership and training. Trustworthy people who carry firearms are very aware that they are in possession of a tool that can end another person's life. Personally, that was the most daunting concept that I had to overcome before ever engaging in firearms training. With training, however, that responsibility becomes manageable. A sensible defensive firearms owner never, ever, forgets the need to safely handle their tools. And, they never diminish the value of life...which is why they are willing to defend it.

One way that this can occur is by dehumanizing our enemies. This dehumanization can then overcome our natural resistance to killing another human being.

I cannot recall being in a training program where people are "dehumanized." Sure, we speak of bad guys, criminals, thugs, and assailants. Those "people" go out of their way to make themselves threats that must be stopped. Personally, I do not need to dehumanize a person that is threatening me before I try to flee or stop them with any available force. Frankly, "humans" are the most dangerous things most of us will come across in our lifetimes.

A person with a flashlight shines a light on the first target, and once his target is lit the shooter immediately fires. This is repeated down the line. These types of competitions and other forms of shooting practice involve creating a quick-shot reflex, which can weaken the natural resistance to killing another human being.

Wrong again. Training has nothing to do with "weakening natural resistance to killing" anything. Training has to do with being prepared for defense of one's family, innocent lives, one's own life.

When we are encouraged to see others, be they military enemies or other members of our own society, as morally inferior, they are dehumanized and thereby easier to kill. This can be done through racist epithets, as was the case in Vietnam and Iraq.

I have never attended a training course where anybody referred to a threat by a racial epithet. Most of the courses I have attended have included participants of many races. We certainly did not shoot each other.

Some in the gun rights movement refer to criminals as “wolves” and themselves as “sheepdogs” protecting the “sheep.” The wolves are the bad guys; the sheepdogs are the good guys protecting the innocent but defenseless sheep.

I've heard this terminology many times. Few civilian defensive firearms owners consider themselves to be sheepdogs. That role is best left to law enforcement. Sure, those with real military training may be suited for that role. But that is not the training that I have in my repertoire.

Weakening empathy by dehumanizing others in these ways harms our character. It makes it more difficult to have virtues that are deeply connected with empathy. Compassion, sympathy, and kindness come to mind. If we see others as less than human, this can lead to moral vices, including callousness, cruelty, and malice.

This is clearly a statement by an anti-gun, anti-defense, Leftist. Gun owners that I know are charitable and willing to help others. On the whole, surveys have showed that Leftists are less charitable than non-Leftists because the former believes that government should provide everything for everyone and they are thus absolved of personal responsibility.

More importantly, protecting someone's life, potentially at the risk of your own, is the ultimate act of "compassion, sympathy, and kindness."

As far as morality, this Leftist author needs to consider the classic C.S. Lewis quote:

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."​

 

[@thewheels]

Personally, I do not need to dehumanize a person that is threatening me before I try to flee or stop them with any available force. Frankly, "humans" are the most dangerous things most of us will come across in our lifetimes.

^^^THIS^^^

The writer lost all credibility with the dehumanizing angle.

It is solely because they are human that they present the greatest threat. Humans have the greatest capacity for cruelty and violence on this planet.

 

[Deplorable Me]

An idiot brings a knife to a gunfight and I'm unethical?

 

[GoodGuywitha9mm]

Virtue and Guns

Wrong again. Training has nothing to do with "weakening natural resistance to killing" anything. Training has to do with being prepared for defense of one's family, innocent lives, one's own life.

I would only add "better" prepared. Remember that nowadays bad guys are training too, and like the old saying "I don't need to out run the bear, I only need to outrun you!", so skills SAVE lives; "one's family, innocent lives, one's own life."

Very well put.

 

[Jsmegs77]

I’m suspicious of the assorted psych* fields for reasons such as this. My ethics are not affected in the least by acquiring proficiency in the use of a given tool. What a stupid thing to say.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Shadow2]

Training preserves empathy, Those who train want to avoid inadvertently doing harm to an innocent person.

 

[JaguarJaguarGolf]

Psychology Today has nothing to do with Psychology. It's infotainment and brainwashing.

My ex-wife tried to "gaslight " me; which is "an effort to create a mental illness in your spouse in order to discard them after the accusing spouse has gotten all they can from the victim" ... All of a sudden, out of the blue she started telling the children, family and friends" Jim has PTSD from 9/11, he's delusional." I foolishly went to see the mental health professional she told me to. I was in this woman's office for just a few minutes when she started talking about medicating me out of my delusional state.... and she's treating 5 other guys for the same thing!

I told I was going to see someone else.

I was lucky, I went to see the mental health professinal assigned to my firehouse after 9/11. Back then I was the surviving captain of a double house in which everyone working was killed, and we were in a battalion of 4 other companies where everyone working was killed including the chief and his aide.
I and the other Captains insisted that we be observed by competent mental health professionals. We were sick and tired of being told :we don't know.."
These folks had never studied what happened to the 101st Airborne when they lost almost a battalion at Gander, or the Marines from the Beruit Barracks, or the Texas City Fire departent after that ship exploded and 200 people vanished.

The lady I saw for every week for 6 months was not sympathetic to my situation. She was the chair of a major NYC universitiy's postdoctural studies program and she had been waiting for me to crash. The first time I went to see her she pulled out a folder with 15 years of conversations we had had.

What I learned from her is not to trust any mental health professional who has less than a Ph.d. . Most mental health professionals that your local health insurance will authorize have a certificate in drug and alcohol, family or relationship counseling. A BA or a BS in Psycology is not required. If you need to see somebody good expect to pay north of $300/hour cash, and your insurance will not reimburse without a diagnosis. Which was my case. She said she could give me the most innocuous diagnosis of temporary anxiety due to the breakup of the marriage, but I did not exhibit any distress over the marriage ending. I told her no thanks, I don't need you to make u a diagnosis. I told her I was a gun owner and didn't need the headache.

For 16 years she had wondered why I was not crazy, and now she knew. She said "the mental health community never expected to find someone so 'primed' to deal with 9/11."

When I became the Chief of Department's executive assistant in '97 he had me collate all our literature on Line of Duty Deaths into one document, and add a section on how we would handle those Missing in Action. He assigned me terrorism" as a research project. We were told by Army Counterintelligence that eventually we would have an incident in which hundreds of firefighters would be killed, and we would not recover half the number killed.

I had my nightmares before 9/11. My best friend from kindergarten was almost killed when a jumper landed on the firefighter next to him. In 2016 he told me there are things about that day he has never told me, his wife, or anybody. He told me "It's not how many times a day I think about 9/11; it's how many times an hour" I got him to a good counselor.

I had my annual WTC medical a few weeks ago. At the exit meeting with the nurse practitioner I told her about the gaslighting and divorce. She responded that they must be having seminar in this subject at diabolical bitch school because I was the sixth guy she had heard of in this situation. She wanted the name of the original mental health lady, and my Ph.d. .

 

[NYGuns]

f-that, makes us prepared plus it's fun. This shit is a hobby, it's fun. The other day I was stressed AF cuz of work b/s so I went to the range and unloaded 300 rounds, practiced drawing and got rid of all my stress. Screw the haters

 

[99cummins]

The more I see from psychological science the more hack I think it is. Part of firearms training is understanding and being willing to harm or kill another human IN SELF DEFENSE. It is not for everyone and shouldn’t be taken lightly.

I think this can be related to training in almost any dangerous/high stress profession. Law enforcement-ignore your instincts of self preservation and run towards danger. Confront the danger. Firefighters-run into burning buildings when others are running out. Put yourself into harms way in a variety of ways to help someone else. Military-put yourself in harms way and go towards the threat. Engage and eliminate the threat. EMS-go towards the danger. Help others that sometimes don’t want your help. Deal with horrific injuries and circumstances. And there are more examples I’m sure.

All of the above require a certain mindset along with proper training. None of the above are for everyone. Some can’t or won’t handle those types of situations. Although I’m sure these liberal cucks would happily argue how anyone in those kind of professions are mentally ill. They already do.

 

[99cummins]

Psychology Today has nothing to do with Psychology. It's infotainment and brainwashing.

My ex-wife tried to "gaslight " me; which is "an effort to create a mental illness in your spouse in order to discard them after the accusing spouse has gotten all they can from the victim" ... All of a sudden, out of the blue she started telling the children, family and friends" Jim has PTSD from 9/11, he's delusional." I foolishly went to see the mental health professional she told me to. I was in this woman's office for just a few minutes when she started talking about medicating me out of my delusional state.... and she's treating 5 other guys for the same thing!

I told I was going to see someone else.

I was lucky, I went to see the mental health professinal assigned to my firehouse after 9/11. Back then I was the surviving captain of a double house in which everyone working was killed, and we were in a battalion of 4 other companies where everyone working was killed including the chief and his aide.
I and the other Captains insisted that we be observed by competent mental health professionals. We were sick and tired of being told :we don't know.."
These folks had never studied what happened to the 101st Airborne when they lost almost a battalion at Gander, or the Marines from the Beruit Barracks, or the Texas City Fire departent after that ship exploded and 200 people vanished.

The lady I saw for every week for 6 months was not sympathetic to my situation. She was the chair of a major NYC universitiy's postdoctural studies program and she had been waiting for me to crash. The first time I went to see her she pulled out a folder with 15 years of conversations we had had.

What I learned from her is not to trust any mental health professional who has less than a Ph.d. . Most mental health professionals that your local health insurance will authorize have a certificate in drug and alcohol, family or relationship counseling. A BA or a BS in Psycology is not required. If you need to see somebody good expect to pay north of $300/hour cash, and your insurance will not reimburse without a diagnosis. Which was my case. She said she could give me the most innocuous diagnosis of temporary anxiety due to the breakup of the marriage, but I did not exhibit any distress over the marriage ending. I told her no thanks, I don't need you to make u a diagnosis. I told her I was a gun owner and didn't need the headache.

For 16 years she had wondered why I was not crazy, and now she knew. She said "the mental health community never expected to find someone so 'primed' to deal with 9/11."

When I became the Chief of Department's executive assistant in '97 he had me collate all our literature on Line of Duty Deaths into one document, and add a section on how we would handle those Missing in Action. He assigned me terrorism" as a research project. We were told by Army Counterintelligence that eventually we would have an incident in which hundreds of firefighters would be killed, and we would not recover half the number killed.

I had my nightmares before 9/11. My best friend from kindergarten was almost killed when a jumper landed on the firefighter next to him. In 2016 he told me there are things about that day he has never told me, his wife, or anybody. He told me "It's not how many times a day I think about 9/11; it's how many times an hour" I got him to a good counselor.

I had my annual WTC medical a few weeks ago. At the exit meeting with the nurse practitioner I told her about the gaslighting and divorce. She responded that they must be having seminar in this subject at diabolical bitch school because I was the sixth guy she had heard of in this situation. She wanted the name of the original mental health lady, and my Ph.d. .

That’s rough. So support or at least good and proper support after 9/11 for fdny was non existent? You still on the job?

 

[JaguarJaguarGolf]

That’s rough. So support or at least good and proper support after 9/11 for fdny was non existent? You still on the job?

Initially there wasn't a mental health professional anywhere who could help. The ones in the NY metro area were all in shock, and many knew someone who was killed. We surviving captains insisted we be studied so when it happened again there would be some support. They are much better now. When I got back to the firehouse about 3am on the 12th I called Operations to get a Critical Incident Stress Debriefing Team to respond, I was told to "get in line". I couldn't get a local priest. Around 10am after a difficult roll call one of the FF's brought me a bussiness card of an MD who was the head of mental health for a major NYC hospital. I had him brought up to the office and checked his credentials, called the institution. I gave him my office to speak to people in private. The other Captain had been killed and his wife had her face buried in his pillow in his office/bunk room and kept smelling his shirts in his locker. I didn't want to take that away from her. This MD stayed with us for a few days. At our final meeting with some of the wives and senior FF's he told us straight up "Noone can predict what will happen to your mental health... and as for you Captain , some one is going to get their Ph.d. studying you.." Now we're face book friends and we're working on a lunch date for next week.

I retired in 2009 with 30 years. Before I left I developed the reponse plan for a chemical attack in the subway, and a guidance document for chiefs if a low-yield nuclear weapon is detonated downtown NY. For the nuke document I was helped by the head of the physics department at Princeton, and a Professor at MIT. When I spoke to the woman at Stanford she said, "We've all been waiting for you guys to call"... I also worked with Defense Threat Reduction Agency (which used to be Defense Nuclear Agency) and Pacific Sierra Research so I could talk to the guy who had worked on every atomic/nuclear detonation the US ever conducted. He said we would be able to handle a detonation of 10 kioton or less. We would have trouble with the mass fires from anything larger than 30 kiloton.

I don't have nightmares, but don't miss it for a minute.

 

[99cummins]

Initially there wasn't a mental health professional anywhere who could help. The ones in the NY metro area were all in shock, and many knew someone who was killed. We surviving captains insisted we be studied so when it happened again there would be some support. They are much better now. When I got back to the firehouse about 3am on the 12th I called Operations to get a Critical Incident Stress Debriefing Team to respond, I was told to "get in line". I couldn't get a local priest. Around 10am after a difficult roll call one of the FF's brought me a bussiness card of an MD who was the head of mental health for a major NYC hospital. I had him brought up to the office and checked his credentials, called the institution. I gave him my office to speak to people in private. The other Captain had been killed and his wife had her face buried in his pillow in his office/bunk room and kept smelling his shirts in his locker. I didn't want to take that away from her. This MD stayed with us for a few days. At our final meeting with some of the wives and senior FF's he told us straight up "Noone can predict what will happen to your mental health... and as for you Captain , some one is going to get their Ph.d. studying you.." Now we're face book friends and we're working on a lunch date for next week.

I retired in 2009 with 30 years. Before I left I developed the reponse plan for a chemical attack in the subway, and a guidance document for chiefs if a low-yield nuclear weapon is detonated downtown NY. For the nuke document I was helped by the head of the physics department at Princeton, and a Professor at MIT. When I spoke to the woman at Stanford she said, "We've all been waiting for you guys to call"... I also worked with Defense Threat Reduction Agency (which used to be Defense Nuclear Agency) and Pacific Sierra Research so I could talk to the guy who had worked on every atomic/nuclear detonation the US ever conducted. He said we would be able to handle a detonation of 10 kioton or less. We would have trouble with the mass fires from anything larger than 30 kiloton.

I don't have nightmares, but don't miss it for a minute.

Very interesting. Hell of a career. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Cooolone]

The entire argument dismisses and avoids the fact that a criminal is, by and large, a repeat offender and has experience and complete disregard for law.

All training does, is attempt to level the playing field! I wonder if these psych's would argue self defense training predisposes a woman to violence in order to avoid rape!? Hmmmmm... Yeah!

Not all psychology is voodoo... But there are some who wish to be more than they are when they come out with this type of garbage. These are the same nitwits that would be the prosecutions witness demonstrating that you had a choice between fight and flight and chose the latter and therefore you are responsible for inflicting injury onto the robber who entered your home masked and armed! They want a submissive populace so they can then blend in, rather than stand out as they do in all their wet noodle drivel... Pfffft...