holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
U.S. Special Operators Want a Tiny Assault Rifle
- Thread starter livingston
- Start date
I guess in our one thread we proved this not so much, but I'd say in a 4" yea 5.56 is nothing
Acer-m14
.950 JDJ
just make it a rifle .. not hard LOL
spat
.700 Nitro Express
"Assault weapon" is a made up term that means whatever the gun grabbers think they can ban today. It's definition varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and time to time at the whim of the 2A foes.
"Assault rifle" is a very specific term with a very specific definition that is widely recognized and agreed upon by subject matter experts across the planet.
Not having heard a term while you happened to serve in the military means nothing. I bet nobody in your chain of command referred to a bicycle in official parlance either, I guess that means they are mythical and the term is just made up.
"Assault rifle" is a very specific term with a very specific definition that is widely recognized and agreed upon by subject matter experts across the planet.
Not having heard a term while you happened to serve in the military means nothing. I bet nobody in your chain of command referred to a bicycle in official parlance either, I guess that means they are mythical and the term is just made up.
Shoots100
.357 mag
I had a Calico M950 and SP89 when it was legal to own them in NY.
If they were both select fire, the Calico would be my choice.
50 and 100 round magazines gave you twice or four times the round capacity of the H&K or any of the other production machine pistol's available at the time.
Unfortunately Calico was stuck on the 9mm cartridge and didn't offer bigger cartridges in their models until it's first demise and CUMHOLE banned all of the fun toys in NY.
SJC
If they were both select fire, the Calico would be my choice.
50 and 100 round magazines gave you twice or four times the round capacity of the H&K or any of the other production machine pistol's available at the time.
Unfortunately Calico was stuck on the 9mm cartridge and didn't offer bigger cartridges in their models until it's first demise and CUMHOLE banned all of the fun toys in NY.
SJC
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
You wouldn’t of gained any extra lethality with a larger caliber like a .40, 10mm, or .45 anyway. Any of those projectiles penetrate sufficiently to reach vital organs on a human torso.
Those guns are known to be unreliable, there is a reason helical magazines arent a thing
Shoots100
.357 mag
I would've put my calico against any pistol out there.
I put thousands of rounds through it and multiple 100 round magazines in a row without issue.
Most of the "unreliable" claims are from unreliable sources.
I sold it to an acquaintance in PA and it's still shooting to this day.
Maybe in the early days they might've been unreliable, but the calico's I've fired shot well and never had any issues that weren't caused by the operator or ammo used, like what would happen with any firearm.
The only issue I had using it , was that my trigger finger would get really tired and it gets kind of boring emptying 100 round mag's in semi auto while your friends have to keep changing mags every 25 rd's.
SJC
I put thousands of rounds through it and multiple 100 round magazines in a row without issue.
Most of the "unreliable" claims are from unreliable sources.
I sold it to an acquaintance in PA and it's still shooting to this day.
Maybe in the early days they might've been unreliable, but the calico's I've fired shot well and never had any issues that weren't caused by the operator or ammo used, like what would happen with any firearm.
The only issue I had using it , was that my trigger finger would get really tired and it gets kind of boring emptying 100 round mag's in semi auto while your friends have to keep changing mags every 25 rd's.
SJC
Ah yes the mine worked just fine and other claims are lies argument.. weird how the company is making what these days?
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Well, some companies make a good product with the occasional lemon.
Other companies make lemons with the occasional good product.
Maybe @Shoots100 got one of the non-lemons.
In all fairness, Calico would have gotten their reputation even if only 10% of their product were jam-o-matics and the rest were reliable.
As for helical magazines being problematic, well, they are more complex. That makes it harder to make them reliable, but there *are* excellent helical magazine designs out there.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
So they want the MP5 again. I wonder why? Probably the same reason I would choose a PCC over an SBR for CQB any day.
Shoots100
.357 mag
Well, how did the Calico you owned function ?
That's Right, you didn't own one and I did for over a decade, So my opinion on them counts and your is just BS keyboard blabber.
Being I know of 2 other 950's, one carbine and a .22lr that never had any issues either, I guess my actual user experience with them is just BS too.
Alot of companies are out of business because of inept management practices, bad timing and/or faulty product claims.
SJC
Oh boo hoo sorry you fragile ego is soo fucking dependent on some range toy you owned years ago
Okay then...tell me which units have "assault rifles" listed on their Tables of Equipment. Because if that term was as "widely recognized" as you claim it is, it should show up on those doctrinal documents.
I'll wait...
spat
.700 Nitro Express
You're trying to claim that if a term doesn't show up in a military table of equipment it isn't widely recognized ?
The military has a jargon all it's own it likes to use, are you going to say that the word humvee isn't common or widely recognized because all the military lists have it as an HMMWV ?
Find one example of a real subject matter expert on small arms claiming that "assault rifle" isn't a valid and common term.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
What makes someone an expert?
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
I know one when I see one.
No, I'm saying that the term "assault rifle" is neither prevalent in doctrinal literature nor is it used in modern military jargon...therefore it is not widely recognized.
Humvee is a widely used term (at least verbally) in the military...."assault rifle" is not. In fact, if you were to use that term, you'd get very weird looks from everyone else. To even suggest that "assault rifle" has common usage in military jargon tells me that you have no freaking clue about the military or its jargon.
Who qualifies as a "subject matter expert?"
And why is the burden on me to prove a negative?
I'm noting that "assault rifle" is not commonly used in the military. Please tell me why I'm wrong.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
I never claimed it was widely used *in the military*. I'm not even sure what the significance of that is.
I claimed that it was a real word with a widely recognized clear definition. As opposed to "assault weapon" that is widely used, but has no clear definition.
You know another term that isn't widely used in the military ? Handgun. Does that mean that handgun is illegitimate too ?
I'm not even sure what point you were trying to make with the "the military doesn't call them that".
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I have used both handgun and sidearm in the military. Not a good example.
Assault Rifle is a made up term. Plain and simple. It goes like this. Terms are made up. Then they are used. When they are used enough, they become defined. The term sidearm has been used so much that it is defined everywhere.
“Assault rifle” is not there yet. Not even close. In fact, the term “Assault weapon” has it beat by a long shot. No organization equipped with those rifles ever uses either term.
I can’t believe you guys don’t understand this.
Assault Rifle is a made up term. Plain and simple. It goes like this. Terms are made up. Then they are used. When they are used enough, they become defined. The term sidearm has been used so much that it is defined everywhere.
“Assault rifle” is not there yet. Not even close. In fact, the term “Assault weapon” has it beat by a long shot. No organization equipped with those rifles ever uses either term.
I can’t believe you guys don’t understand this.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Being widely used and being clearly defined are 2 completely different things.
"assault weapon" is widely used, but it is poorly defined and therefore meaningless.
"assault rifle" has a specific definition, and it doesn't matter how often it is used, but how many people know what it means that make it legitimate.
You can deny the legitimacy of the term all you want, but all it does is make you look foolish.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Defined by whom? One or two manufacturers? Sorry. No dice.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
@spat Is a “Race Gun” a real term or a made up one?
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Real, but also ill defined.
Widely used...widely recognized....we're talking about the same thing here.
Handgun isn't widely used in the military, but everyone in the military would know what you're talking about if you used that term to describe a Beretta or Sig issued sidearm.
People in the military would ask you what you're smoking if you asked someone to watch over your "assault rifle." It is not widely used nor is it widely recognized in military circles. An M16/M4 is referred to as a rifle. A M249 or M240 is referred to as a machinegun (or crewserved in the case of the M240).
As far as the average warfighter is concerned, an "assault rifle" is something that is occasionally talked about in certain media outlets....it just doesn't exist in the modern military parlance....plain and simple. The only shred of counter-evidence, if you can even consider it that, is that there were some old Cold War era articles and publications that referred to certain threat country weapon systems as "assault" type weapons (AK-47's). But no one in the modern military looks at a M249 SAW or select fire M16 and thinks: "look, there is an assault rifle." It's an outlandish term in America's modern military...and I shouldn't have to explain that to anyone who has actually spent time in the service.
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I'm waiting to hear about you telling Larry Vickers that he is wrong calling these guns assault weapons, and what his response is
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Oh. Larry Vickers. I guess as a veteran if I open up a gun shop and post a few YouTube videos, then I can start defining things.
I don’t have the gun shop yet but this day going forward I hearby define a gun with holes in the barrel not used for competitions as a “Stock car gun. “
I don’t have the gun shop yet but this day going forward I hearby define a gun with holes in the barrel not used for competitions as a “Stock car gun. “
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
My 300 winmag is magnaported, does that count?
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
What are your guys thoughts on banana clips vs normal clips?
