Elizabeth Warren’s Tax Plan Would Bring Rates Over 100% for Some

[Blimey]

Elizabeth Warren’s Tax Plan Would Bring Rates Over 100% for Some

Presidential candidate Elizabeth Warren’s tax proposals would push federal rates on billionaires and some multimillionaires above 100% to finance social programs. Some say that could slow economic growth.

www.wsj.com

My take:

• Warren is behind Biden but not massively so (RealClearPolitics - Election 2020 - 2020 Democratic Presidential Nomination)
• Major plank of her election, and she even sells "billionaire's tears" mugs on her website is anti-rich people. I personally don't know, never have, never will a billionaire, but like many effective politicians in the past she has identified a group of nasty offenders who are responsible for why our lives suck
• Sanders says and I assume she agrees that billionaires shouldn't exist. But what about deca-millionaires? Should they? What about people worth $2M or $1M?
• I do believe that if she wins the nomination and polls show her as having any chance in hell of winning (she will scare a lot of money away), the stock market will respond poorly. She will greatly disincentive people from holding equities, at least rich ones. This will have to depress stock prices.
• As a friendly reminder, I personally pay more in federal taxes than literally millions of americans combined. Most of you do here, too. The wealth disparity in the US is ridiculous. I think it is, but let's be clear the rich pay absolute shit loads of taxes as it is. I don't know what the perfect tax rate is, but this crap like "they pay a lower tax rate than I do" is totally irrelevant, as 20% on $10M is a lot more than 22% on $100k.

 

[BDinPutnam]

Great points, as usual. I would just clarify something.

Who gives a rat's ass about wealth disparity?

Standard of living in the middle class (hell, in the underclass as well) is higher than millionaires had living125 years ago.

 

[Deplorable Me]

Time to go Galt.

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

100%?

I can't see anyone having a problem with that.

 

[Jmac00]

its simple math, the rich will take their money were the math is best for them. Thats why people with money are leaving New Yorkistan and Mexifornia. same thing happened in Venezuela, the government tried to tax all the mega-rich, they fled to Florida. leaving the country broke

 

[Jsmegs77]

Tax rate over 100%? So, all of your wages are confiscated via taxation, and you still owe? Or am I not understanding this correctly?

 

[Darth]

Taxation is theft.

And even in the current state, at what point does the amount of money I have become other people's? What's the number? Who is deciding the amount of money that I need? Is it the same people that are telling me what guns I need?

It isn't me. And that's where I have an issue.

 

[Saltwater60]

What people fail to realize is that the rich pay 49% of taxes in the USA. That’s a larger chunk than any other group in the USA.

Who Pays Income Taxes?

(pdf) All throughout 2021, President Biden repeatedly called on wealthy individuals to “step up” and “pay your fair share.” The “fair share” claim is repeated like a mantra to justify higher tax rates and enforcement. This message spurred congressional Democrats to include an $80 billion...

www.ntu.org

Also keep in mind the rich will leave with their money and they will take their businesses and USA jobs with them. This will turn the USA into a 2nd to 3rd world country. This will be the demise of the USA. The housing market will crash. I will have to sell my house along with 90% of you as well.

 

[Grimscale]

So should a rich person pay a set dollar amount, the same dollar amount as someone from the middle-class or lower, regardless of how much money they've accrued, or should taxes be determined as a percentage of money accrued?

That is the big difference in how statements like this are based:

What people fail to realize is that the rich pay 49% of taxes in the USA.

Yes, the "rich" pay more monetarily. But how does that compare as a percentage of their income?
Between Federal, State, SSI, Medicare, etc., I end up paying around 39% of my income.
Wasn't there an article, in the last few years, indicating that the "rich" pay less than 25% in taxes?

If you base taxes as a fixed dollar amount, it is a regressive tax since the poor and lower income pay a greater percentage of their total income than the rich.
If you base taxes as a fixed percentage amount it can still be regressive, just not quite as painful to the poor, but then "the rich pay more in taxes" (as a dollar amount).

So what is the best solution?

 

[Diesel Tech]

Great points, as usual. I would just clarify something.

Who gives a rat's ass about wealth disparity?

Standard of living in the middle class (hell, in the underclass as well) is higher than millionaires had living125 years ago.

Your in meth

 

[Saltwater60]

So should a rich person pay a set dollar amount, the same dollar amount as someone from the middle-class or lower, regardless of how much money they've accrued, or should taxes be determined as a percentage of money accrued?

That is the big difference in how statements like this are based:



Yes, the "rich" pay more monetarily. But how does that compare as a percentage of their income?
Between Federal, State, SSI, Medicare, etc., I end up paying around 39% of my income.
Wasn't there an article, in the last few years, indicating that the "rich" pay less than 25% in taxes?

If you base taxes as a fixed dollar amount, it is a regressive tax since the poor and lower income pay a greater percentage of their total income than the rich.
If you base taxes as a fixed percentage amount it can still be regressive, just not quite as painful to the poor, but then "the rich pay more in taxes" (as a dollar amount).

So what is the best solution?

I absolutely see you’re point and agree with you. However rich people invest, creat jobs, and spend exorbitant amounts of money. Yes some hoard their cash. If they placed an inflated tax on Jeff Bezo’s do you think he would have as many employees and as much economic impact as he does currently.
It’s tough to say. I make good money and so does my wife but we struggle a bit here and there. We both work extra jobs to make ends meet.

 

[GOPerfect]

Taxation sucks. All of it. We should be paying next to nothing in income tax. He'll, nothing at all should be owed!

As for wealth disparity, I could not care any less than I do.

The rich are rich because they do something correct. The poor are poor because they choose their path poorly. They continue to make bad choices and they remain poor.

I do not care how much weath the rich have and I certainly do not care at all that some are poor. Want more in life? Make better choices.

 

[BDinPutnam]

Your in meth

My in meth what?

 

[FrankenCub]

My in meth what?

He's doin meth, pay no mind to him.

 

[FrankenCub]

Those wanting to support such tax plans are just jealous. They cant live with the fact that someone has more than themselves. I used to live at a comfortable level, not rich but I didnt have any complaints. Now, I'm dirt ass poor after I fubar'd my back. I still dont give a shit. I eat every day and my bills are paid. It really boils down to this, it's none of my fuckin business how much money others make. Doesnt matter if it 5 digits or 10 digits a year. Not my business. They have no reason to support me nor do I want their money.
I've met some great rich people, and met great poor people. The money doesnt mean shit.

 

[Jmac00]

What people fail to realize is that the rich pay 49% of taxes in the USA. That’s a larger chunk than any other group in the USA.

Who Pays Income Taxes?

(pdf) All throughout 2021, President Biden repeatedly called on wealthy individuals to “step up” and “pay your fair share.” The “fair share” claim is repeated like a mantra to justify higher tax rates and enforcement. This message spurred congressional Democrats to include an $80 billion...

www.ntu.org

Also keep in mind the rich will leave with their money and they will take their businesses and USA jobs with them. This will turn the USA into a 2nd to 3rd world country. This will be the demise of the USA. The housing market will crash. I will have to sell my house along with 90% of you as well.

this is what happened in Venezuela, the state tried to take all the money from the rich, so the rich left. Now look at them, the place went from a world power to complete shit-hole within 10 years.

 

[GOPerfect]

You know what, I am far from rich. I have more than enough; more than some, less then others.

I work many long, and sometimes hard hours to bring home what I do. I want it all. I want all the money that I earn. I do not want to share it with others.

If the poor cannot afford food;, die.

If the poor cannot afford cloths; freeze.

If the poor cannot afford anything; I do not care one iota.

I am tired of paying for others and I am sure most of the super rich in the US are more tired than am I.

Stop this nonsense

 

[Jmac00]

You know what, I am far from rich. I have more than enough; more than some, less then others.

I work many long, and sometimes hard hours to bring home what I do. I want it all. I want all the money that I earn. I do not want to share it with others.

If the poor cannot afford food;, die.

If the poor cannot afford cloths; freeze.

If the poor cannot afford anything; I do not care one iota.

I am tired of paying for others and I am sure most of the super rich in the US are more tired than am I.

Stop this nonsense

WHAT HE SAID ^^^^^^

 

[FrankenCub]

You know what, I am far from rich. I have more than enough; more than some, less then others.

I work many long, and sometimes hard hours to bring home what I do. I want it all. I want all the money that I earn. I do not want to share it with others.

If the poor cannot afford food;, die.

If the poor cannot afford cloths; freeze.

If the poor cannot afford anything; I do not care one iota.

I am tired of paying for others and I am sure most of the super rich in the US are more tired than am I.

Stop this nonsense

The way I look at it is if they can not afford those basics, they aren't putting a minute forth for trying. If illegals can find a way to make a buck here, so can our own homeless. If you want it enough you'll shovel cow shit if you need to. And not a damn thing wrong with that.
Giving to anyone should be a choice, not a demand by some government. If someone wants to hoard every penny, well that's their business. If they want to blow their money on, well, blow. That's also their business. But no one should be expected to take up their slack.
That's something else that pisses me off, funding for drug abuse programs. Fuck them, was their decision to wreck their lives, not mine. Used to be videos on YT, scumbags bragging about how much weed they smoke while taking in that welfare check. Cut em off! Get a fuckin job then smoke up on your own dime.
Cant afford something? Do without or pick up an odd job to get it.
Hell, I couldn't afford to pick up this speed boat I just got so I bartered shit around till it worked out. I'm thinking the engine will have to be replaced so I'll be doing the same thing. Barter or pick up a simple odd job or 2 till I get a parts boat worked out. There are people much more capable than I and they just sit around and bitch, won't lift a finger to help themselves.

 

[Grimscale]

If they placed an inflated tax on Jeff Bezo’s

Do you consider having an equal percentage of income as tax "inflated" when it is applied to anyone making over a certain amount?

I really don't care that Jeff Bezos has a billion dollars and I only have a few tens-of-thousands. He made better choices and had better opportunities/ideas/etc.
But having to pay a higher percentage of my income than he does is a bit irritating. I'm not advocating he pay more of a percentage than I do just because he has more total dollars. That would be "inflated". That is the kind of thing that drives the wealthy to move their money out of the Country, close down businesses in high tax States, and in general tank the economy.

 

[Steal2B]

FUAC IS THINKING .... 100% TAX ...

 

[Blimey]

Great points, as usual. I would just clarify something.

Who gives a rat's ass about wealth disparity?

Standard of living in the middle class (hell, in the underclass as well) is higher than millionaires had living125 years ago.

Unfortunately most of us do. It turns out that people's sense of wealth--and even happiness--is based largely upon how they see themselves vs others. Get yourself a new Mustang you're feeling pretty good about yourself. Neighbor pulls up in a Corvette now you feel bad. It's just due to people being fickle.

So although we're all quite a bit richer, the really rich are super rich. And thanks for endless influx of crap over the internet we're all keenly aware of it.

Tax rate over 100%? So, all of your wages are confiscated via taxation, and you still owe? Or am I not understanding this correctly?

It would just be on certain bits of your money. Due to the progressive tax system your last dollar is always taxed at the highest. Based on this article it seems in some circumstances those last dollars would be taxed more than 100%.

So should a rich person pay a set dollar amount, the same dollar amount as someone from the middle-class or lower, regardless of how much money they've accrued, or should taxes be determined as a percentage of money accrued?

That is the big difference in how statements like this are based:



Yes, the "rich" pay more monetarily. But how does that compare as a percentage of their income?
Between Federal, State, SSI, Medicare, etc., I end up paying around 39% of my income.
Wasn't there an article, in the last few years, indicating that the "rich" pay less than 25% in taxes?

If you base taxes as a fixed dollar amount, it is a regressive tax since the poor and lower income pay a greater percentage of their total income than the rich.
If you base taxes as a fixed percentage amount it can still be regressive, just not quite as painful to the poor, but then "the rich pay more in taxes" (as a dollar amount).

So what is the best solution?

These statements are oft repeated by the media but they are disingenuous if not outright deceitful. Tax brackets go up big time once you start pulling in big money. However, once an individual earner hits around $130k they no longer pay more social security. Scandal, right? Except they also don't get anymore from social security than if they made exactly $130k. And in fact, although SS payments scale linearly, benefits do not (skewed toward lower income).

It should also be noted that outside of a few ultra rich living on their cap gains, the bulk of the rich--say doctors or associate at law firm making $500k-1M/year pay far more in taxes not just in a set dollar amount but also as a percentage. Truly if there was a flat tax it would mean taxes on the middle and lower classes sky rocket.