Absolutely zero. Deflection and the apologetics machine warming up.
2 Men charged with murder of unarmed man Ahmaud Arbery in GA
- Thread starter Blimey
- Start date
Absolutely zero. Deflection and the apologetics machine warming up.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
There was a struggle over the gun. Both men were in fear for their lives at that point. However, you cant rob someone's house and kill the owner because he pulled a gun and then claim self defense either. On the other hand, A police officer would be fully justified if he killed someone in a struggle over his gun . The courts have to decide if these men were acting in a law enforcement capacity or not. Pretty tough to prove.
I could see the courts reducing the charge from Homicide to negligent homicide, much easier to prove .
Disclaimer. the men were idiots .
I could see the courts reducing the charge from Homicide to negligent homicide, much easier to prove .
Disclaimer. the men were idiots .
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Yes. after zimmerman and ferguson I've stopped making conclusions from these videos, because in the vast majority of cases there is a lot more going on than some bloodthirsty KKK member looking to kill black people. The media prefers the latter message, because promoting the idea that the US is still basically 1840 most whites are akin to cotton estate owners is a simpler message.
Makes sense. if this guy was in fact scouting homes to rob, a cop would have attempted to stop him as these guys would have and, had the altercation happened, the cop would have been let go for certain. I suppose the difference here is did these guys have any legal justification to attempt to forcibly restrain this guy? I'm guessing no, in which case they're probably pretty screwed.
I will be very, very, very surprised if the very first altercation/communication these guys had with the victim was seen in the video. I strongly suspect they had engaged with him in some capacity shortly prior. This is the only way i can plausibly explain how when the guy stepped out of the car with the shotgun the dude didn't shit his pants and hightail it off the road onto the grass on the right. The fact he went to try and disarm tells me he probably had seen them before, felt they wouldn't give up, and it was his best bet. There's more to this story certainly that we do not know. I do not expect it to justify the legality of what they did, though.
It's also very likely there is a reason why it took two months to arrest them. We just don't know what else happened here.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
No. legally they can detain him until police arrive. Not advisable , But not against the law either. Was the guy doing something wrong? Don't know. Was it even the same guy? Don't know. Im curious as to what their defense might be. If these were drunk Klansmen out hunting,then its first degree homicide , hands down . If its anything else the charges may be reduced and the reaction could start a fire storm .
Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
Same with the media and the families lawyers. The truth always lies somewhere in between in most cases. Cops can only present the facts as they were told or investigated in most cases unless they were physically present there.
This video is lacking the entire beginning half. Does it even exist maybe we will never know. Of the beginning is released it could substantiate the claims of the two white people or it could completely convict them. We don’t know.
Sounds to me like the two white guys are screwed because it has to be a felony that you see to make a citizens arrest. Looking in a window of a house under construction is trespassing at best. I’ve done it myself in my neighborhood. Just saying.
I will say there are plenty of videos out there that are cut and dry and the cop acted in self defense or it was just a bad no win situation and riots took place. Media outlets have deceptively edited some videos.
There are a few videos of cops murdering people, think the guy in North Carolina that was charged and convicted. The guy was running away and he said he tried to grab his taser. The cop shot him dead in the back. He’s a murderer.
Then there are some cops that shot people and got away with it and shouldn’t have. The cop in NYC shot the wrong guy and wasn’t charged?
You can’t make general statements like this. Speak directly about this one.
It appears things were said and people had to recuse themselves from this case because they know or worked with the father because he was a cop/investigator. Seems like the kid is screwed. By screwed I mean guilty of a crime and will be convicted. I don’t mean shafted by media/law enforcement. Dad maybe
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
Prior convictions (multiple) show a pattern. Does it mean he was scoping out a target? No. Does it mean he should have been killed? No. Does it mean he was more likely to be out for more than a jog? I would say yes compared to someone who’s never been convicted of a felony. Crime statistics show all races are more likely to be repeat offenders than those who have ever committed a felony. It’s common sense but won’t be allowed in court most likely. I think these two should be convicted on the evidence I have seen so far even if he was looking in houses as some have reported .
Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
From the media and the law expert this morning they said in Georgia you can make a citizens arrest of a person if you see them commit a felony.
These two did not see him do the crime in question and looking into a window Ana house under construction is not a felony. Seems the dads in some shit. The kids in a bit of shit too. I’d say they will be convicted. Hard to say right now as not much is known or released.
They should have followed him while on their cell phones with the police.
Let this all be a lesson to all of us on here. If no one is in immediate danger let the cops handle it.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Sounds correct. I was thinking burglary
Do you know what burglary is? The murder victim was outside in the street.
Elwood
.223 Rem
regardless of what his intentions were, no crime was committed. The three in the truck had no right to even try detaining the guy let alone point a shotgun at him. If he was suspiciously peering into peoples houses that’s why we have police to investigate such activities, it’s not up to the neighborhood watch to play police or judge, jury or firing squad.
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Do you know for sure?
What's more likely: That he committed some crime--or these guys thought he did--and they played vigilante and things got out of hand
or
This guy was going out for a jog and they decided to kill him because he's black and had no business jogging.
Elwood
.223 Rem
The encounter was caught on camera, we’ll see once the video is released, but from everything I’ve seen regarding this, no crime was committed except by the neighborhood watch
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
That's because you only saw the video.
I am just saying I find it extremely unlikely that these guys were simply driving around, saw a black guy jogging, and decided to what exactly? Nobody has explained why they decided to stop a black guy jogging. They didn't go out and shoot him immediately. They tried to stop him. For what? Jogging? Were they going to arrest him for jogging? kidnap him? Have a word with him? Why did they target him?
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Yeah, when he was shot. WTF ? burglars don't leave the house? Ever hear of fleeing the scene before?
I was wrongfully under the impression that he was seen leaving a home. I didn't realize it was a construction site , So I thought they were trying to stop a burglar. not a trespasser.
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holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
The father, the guy in the back of the truck was a former police officer Too. Don't know what he was thinking.
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
This link has some transcript from the 911 call.
www.dailymail.co.uk
So. No surprise, right? These guys were not just KKK wizards out hunting a black guy for fun.
In actual fact they thought he had committed a crime (and he technically did if he was in a house under construction) and decided to try and stop him, probably to get the police to eventually come.
If that transcript is most of it, based on that and the video they are in shit, but it does explain what they were doing.
As for house under construction I've walked through many under construction. Certainly not the same as entering an occupied house by any stretch.
White men arrested for MURDER of black jogger 2 MONTHS after shooting
Exclusive photos show the moment Gregory McMichael, 64, and Travis McMichael, 34, were arrested at their home in Brunswick, Georgia, on Thursday.
So. No surprise, right? These guys were not just KKK wizards out hunting a black guy for fun.
In actual fact they thought he had committed a crime (and he technically did if he was in a house under construction) and decided to try and stop him, probably to get the police to eventually come.
If that transcript is most of it, based on that and the video they are in shit, but it does explain what they were doing.
As for house under construction I've walked through many under construction. Certainly not the same as entering an occupied house by any stretch.
livingston
20×102mm Vulcan
Book em Danno
livingston
20×102mm Vulcan
You can't fix stupidity.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
So the father called in the suspect to the police just before the shooting. So they weren't Klansmen hunting random black guys.
livingston
20×102mm Vulcan
Think back to Texas .... Black guy dragged behind a truck... ...
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Yep, just warming up, the race baiting big media was in gear from the get go. They got a lot of catching up to do. There is truth and facts in there somewhere, just where 'there' is has yet to be determined.
Robin
Are you really that insulated? Wow.
DrBleachCocktail
.44 mag
Shit like this happens all them time and the sad part is that it’ll continue. Dems might call upon more gun control after this or somehow blame the president. It’s just sad. How do you “defend yourself.” When you’re the only one carrying a shotgun? For those who said “Well I would’ve ran fast or this or that.” Remember he tried running away numerous times they still provoked him blocking him off his path. Scumbags like these two idiots will always shoot first then think of an excuse later.
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Me, insulated? So you are taking the position that these crackers were out negro-hunting? Just saw a black guy going for a jog and decided it was time to rack the scatter gun and teach him a lesson? And you say this even when i actually posted a link that has a transcript of the 911 call which explained the situation underpinning their motivation? The post you call insulated with a wow response I posted an actual link justifying and confirming precisely what I had at that point only guessed at.
Jogging/walking/driving etc. while Black is a legitimate hazard.
"They tried to stop him. For what? Jogging? Were they going to arrest him for jogging? kidnap him? Have a word with him? Why did they target him?"
Do you realize how many times the cops have been called either on me, or other Black folks I know, simply for entering into public spaces that white folks have decided are their own personal fiefdoms? That these two individuals would take "the law" into their own hands is simply an extension of the attitude that the "Karens" of this country have.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Id say zero.
Rap, relax a bit man. Seriously.
Most here have actually stated that they see a serious crime here. Most of the members on this forum are skeptical, to say the least, of the news media.
Never is the entire story told to the people. From your post that I quoted, you should know that as well.
What many are saying is simply, the entire truth needs to come out. Remember, "Hands up, don't shoot"? Turned out to be a giant lie. Completely fabricated, a lie that continues to this day.
I heard the 911 call. You asked,
"They tried to stop him. For what? Jogging? Were they going to arrest him for jogging? kidnap him? Have a word with him? Why did they target him?"
Those questions have been answered. We all may not like the answers, but they were answered. The father and son wanted to stop the guy and ask about a recent slew of burglaries. Again, I am not saying that that is right, just posting facts. I am a patient man, I will wait for the facts to come out. I will wait for all of the investigations to occur. I will wait for the verdict to come out.
If they are found guilty, they will serve their time in prison.
This is not going to be a giant conspiracy. Thus far, everything has been well out in front. One of the reasons the arrest took so long was they needed to find a prosecutor that did not have ties to the father. The whole, conflict of interest thing.
This I will nearly guarantee, those afflicted by this, they will not wait for justice. Many of the people in the area, just a matter of time before they riot and destroy public and private parts of the city. They will chant and yell stuff like; "No Justice, No Peace" and that kind of garbage. They will take to the streets and commit crimes against the people in the name of justice. Other groups will show up in support and things, as usual, will get out of hand.
This is the bigger issue.
Ahmaud Arbery killing: man called 911 to report 'black male running' prior to shooting
Recordings of 911 calls obtained by the Guardian provide details on the moments before a man was shot while jogging in Georgia
www.theguardian.com
These are the 911 recordings.
Again, just posting facts to assist in the story being told.
From the 911 calls, this is not the first time someone has been prowling around the new construction sites.
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I will say this, if, when all of the facts come out, they are found guilty, I hope they spend a very, very long time in prison.
Protecting your own property is all well in good, chasing a man down the street in a truck for a mile or so, not good. Shooting a man dead in cold blood is very bad.
Protecting your own property is all well in good, chasing a man down the street in a truck for a mile or so, not good. Shooting a man dead in cold blood is very bad.