It needs to be reasonable and necessary in the eyes of grand jurists above and beyond being lawful. A jurist is likely to say they are on the side of the men apprehending a fugitive or attempting to do so
Armed bounty hunters enter home in Buffalo with police and no warrant
- Thread starter Saltwater60
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BerettaGuy
.308 Win
Bail Enforcement Officers, aka Bounty Hunters, are like the Repo Man. The Repo Man doesn't steal your car because it's not your car. They are not the Government so the Constitution does not apply. Just like a husband having the police there so he can peaceably remove his belongings in a domestic, Cops are there to keep the peace. Now the fact that the bail jumper wasn't there is another story.
drowhawk
.44 mag
Hrm that's funny. The constitution applies in my house. I guess that's the luxury of owning a home, you get to decide what applies and what doesn't, the second that threshold is forcefully breached.
Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
Here is my take. The BPD captain says they can make entry but can not force entry. IMO they forced entry. Open up or will will knock down the door, at gun point, and lying saying they had a warrant. That makes their actions illegal per BPD captain.
They say in general other addresses are listed on bail bonds for family members and friends. This by no means they are assisting the criminal just they are related and possible places to look. I do not believe the BH that they saw said person at this home. Do I know that no of course not. They entered his mother’s home, his home, and another residence that is a tenant of Jake’s. At the very least it is armed invasion of a home for the tenant and some other criminal charges if they were home and guns pontes at them. You can’t go into anyone’s home for any reason especially the tenants property. BPD or anyone with a warrant could not enter the tenants property for any reason unless they saw the criminal in there.
They entered this home under false pretenses and I fully support this lawsuit and him suing BPD. The officers should have advised the home owner of his rights and said they are not police and they do not have a warrant because they didn’t. Did the BPD hear him ask for the warrant I don't know. I see why the home owner didn’t shoot because he thought they were police.
If it’s me slide warrant under door or I shoot if you enter. Plain and simple.
They say in general other addresses are listed on bail bonds for family members and friends. This by no means they are assisting the criminal just they are related and possible places to look. I do not believe the BH that they saw said person at this home. Do I know that no of course not. They entered his mother’s home, his home, and another residence that is a tenant of Jake’s. At the very least it is armed invasion of a home for the tenant and some other criminal charges if they were home and guns pontes at them. You can’t go into anyone’s home for any reason especially the tenants property. BPD or anyone with a warrant could not enter the tenants property for any reason unless they saw the criminal in there.
They entered this home under false pretenses and I fully support this lawsuit and him suing BPD. The officers should have advised the home owner of his rights and said they are not police and they do not have a warrant because they didn’t. Did the BPD hear him ask for the warrant I don't know. I see why the home owner didn’t shoot because he thought they were police.
If it’s me slide warrant under door or I shoot if you enter. Plain and simple.
BerettaGuy
.308 Win
They knocked and were allowed in. So much for the warrantless search.
BPD doesn’t get to decide what’s lawful and not. It’s already been established no warrant is needed to enter. Of course they can force entry or every house they hit would say nope go away and they would never get anyone.
So, just a NY State academy? Okay, thanks
And a top lawyer was also brought in. So right from the source then affirmed by experienced law professionals. Don’t get any better than that. Of course some think google U is a good instructor too.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Whether he is indicted by the grand jury is all about what the prosecutor wants. If he wants to prosecute the case he can almost always get a grand jury to cooperate "insert obligitory ham sandwich quote".
That is largely a political decision on the part of the prosecutor. Is this a case he wants his name attached to when it hits the news. The law isn't as important here as the optics/politics.
If the homeowner was an upstanding black man with a professional demeanor, and a good job no prosecutor is going to want to touch that with a 10 foot pole.
If it's a white guy who looks and acts like a meth dealer (regardless of actual employment or law abiding status) maybe he wants to go for it.
But a grand jury indictment isn't a conviction. That requires a fair bit more evidence, and the law matters there a lot more.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Also, a bounty hunter is not a cop. Public perception is that a lot of them are scumbags. A lot of grand jury members are likely to view them in the same light as the criminals they go after.
The poor suburbanite sitting in his living room when the door gets kicked in is likely to garner a lot more sympathy from a jury that a bounty hunter.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
So, when was it that you discussed bounty hunters breaking into innocent homes with this "top lawyer" ?
I have no doubt you talked to some experts in the field. I do have serious doubts that you correctly understood what they were telling you.
It goes to grand jury to be fair and independent. That’s the entire point. They will decide. Not the prosecutor. Take it one step further. A35 says DPF can be used to arrest or stop someone who is in immediate flight there from a robbery. Do you think if you shoot a guy in the back running from a robbery you aren’t getting convicted? Lol. But A35 says you can!!! Yes but it’s not “reasonable” and “necessary” as it is required to be. You only met one of the 3 prongs. Only you didn’t know that because you relied on google U to educate you. Big mistake.
drowhawk
.44 mag
Whoa whoa whoa. Let's slow down here. A private citizen can NOT force entry into a home. I'm not sure what crackpot lawyer or class you took where they told you this was OK, but it's not. Even LE can't force entry without a warrant.
You win. Your google U supersedes my state education.
BerettaGuy
.308 Win
NOl It doesn't. The Constitution limits Government! It tells Government what they can and cannot or must and must not do. It doesn't mean squat to a nongovernment person. For that we have laws. In other words, you supposedly have the right to free speech. But not in my house. If I don't like what you are saying or how you're saying it, you will be asked to leave and there is nothing you can do about it. You can disturb my peace and I can have you arrested, or I can physically remove you and you can cry about it and tell the police how I touched you or even assaulted you. All now a matter of law. If someone breaks in that is the inherent inalienable right of self-defense endowed by the Creator.
But alas, as they marginalize diminish, and destroy the creator, so much for your inalienable rights and mine. It is called progressivism. After all who in their right mind can be against progress, right?
The law and Supreme Court disagrees. It’s been cited. No warrant necessary to enter.
drowhawk
.44 mag
Maybe I misunderstood you. I agree with this though.
BerettaGuy
.308 Win
I know, didn't mean to offend, unfortunately, we are all under assault but most of us just don't know it yet.
drowhawk
.44 mag
Ok. I'll give you my address and you can attempt it tonight. I'll even leave the door unlocked for ya. We'll see if the supreme court or your article 35 lawyer show up.
I'm just kidding obviously but the law doesn't really matter to me when someone is threatening to bust down my door at midnight and they are not a cop. I'm going to defend my family first and assess the totality of the circumstances later.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
If you say "open or we'll break it down" and point guns at the homeowner, you were not "allowed in" just because the door is still in one piece.
Not anymore than a mugging victim "gave his wallet away" because he didn't get stabbed.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
You keep saying that.
You are misinterpreting both in this case.
They say that they can enter to apprehend the fugitive.
Not that they can break in anyplace they want just to look for him.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
You have a seriously overinflated sense of the role a grand jury plays in the modern legal system.
In principle what you say is true. In practice they are a rubber stamp for whatever the prosecutor wants.
With or without a License, bounty hunters must still follow all applicable state and federal laws when recovering somebody who has skipped bond. Kicking in the door of a family member would not necessarily fall within State law. If this homeowner did not open the door, and if they kicked it in, this homeowner would in FACT be justified in using force to repel the invaders.
This is pretty simple English that can be found in Article 35. Nearly everything that the Bounty Hunters did was unlawful, the Buffalo Police that allowed it to happen should be disciplined through their department.
This is pretty simple English that can be found in Article 35. Nearly everything that the Bounty Hunters did was unlawful, the Buffalo Police that allowed it to happen should be disciplined through their department.
I am not sure the home owner allowed them or invited them in. Yep, he opened the door, but I did not see an invite to search and walk through.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
The myriad of examples proving that your wrong supercedes your misunderstanding of what the state tried to teach you.
On the application of bond, most bondsman will require at least two different addresses and phone numbers prior to issuing the bond money. It does not say that those residents can be broken into if the bonded man jumps the bond.
Not how it works. You’ll never know if or when they’re coming. You’ll be overwhelmed immediately. Can’t go back in time and make up your own version of events. I know in your head you pop them all instantly with head shots and go down as a hero with a parade down Main Street. Real life is different.
When someone accepts bail, they essentially form a contract in which they surrender several legal rights in return for being let out. Part of this agreement allows a bounty hunter to enter your property to re-arrest you if you attempt to escape. They do not, however, have the right to enter a third party's residence without permission, even if the fugitive is inside. The third party hasn't signed any agreement with the state, so bounty hunters have no special rights when dealing with them.
That’s why they were all there doing this. Because it’s unlawful. They thought nobody would notice. They thought they had invisibility cloaks on. Lol just stop. That’s also why they called local police for help. Because it was unlawful. They called and said hello police come help us invade a home want to commit a crime with us. It’s so bad it’s laughable. Move on.
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