Armed bounty hunters enter home in Buffalo with police and no warrant

[drowhawk]

Not how it works. You’ll never know if or when they’re coming. You’ll be overwhelmed immediately. Can’t go back in time and make up your own version of events. I know in your head you pop them all instantly with head shots and go down as a hero with a parade down Main Street. Real life is different.

I am not James Bond, no. You are correct. But I am proficient with my firearms and determined to survive. My spouse is also a very good shot and she is NOT a roll over and take it type of person either. Yeah in our hypothetical fairy tale we could be overwhelmed, likely even killed but I guarantee you both sides would have casualties.

In the circumstance of a bounty hunter-turned SWAT team, I would be totally justified in defending my home. I hope I NEVER have to find out first-hand but this guy did and I hope the BH and BPD pay a HEFTY price for this violation of basic human rights.

 

[Chevusa]

When someone accepts bail, they essentially form a contract in which they surrender several legal rights in return for being let out. Part of this agreement allows a bounty hunter to enter your property to re-arrest you if you attempt to escape. They do not, however, have the right to enter a third party's residence without permission, even if the fugitive is inside. The third party hasn't signed any agreement with the state, so bounty hunters have no special rights when dealing with them.

Second part is most likely true but I’m sure this was listed as his known home. The family playing stupid for money carries no weight. Let me guess? They’ve never heard of him? Or is it they haven’t seen him in years? Nobody will fall for their bs.

 

[Celt]

Funny it’s removed. Says page not available. I wanted to see this video so bad. I found it another way. The video doesn’t look good.

Where's the vid?

 

[GOPerfect]

Second part is most likely true but I’m sure this was listed as his known home. The family playing stupid for money carries no weight. Let me guess? They’ve never heard of him? Or is it they haven’t seen him in years? Nobody will fall for their bs.

This is not about the scum that jumped bail. Even if the brother knew where the bail jumper was does not give the BH's carte blanche to invade the home.

Again, this has zero to do with the jumper.

 

[GOPerfect]

Where's the vid?

If you have Facebook

 

[Chevusa]

This is not about the scum that jumped bail. Even if the brother knew where the bail jumper was does not give the BH's carte blanche to invade the home.

Again, this has zero to do with the jumper.

It does if this is really where he lives or made a sworn statement that he does. Guess we would need to see the court paperwork to settle it and that’s not happening so I’m not gonna argue with my fellow 2A brothers about it further.

 

[Celt]

Second part is most likely true but I’m sure this was listed as his known home. The family playing stupid for money carries no weight. Let me guess? They’ve never heard of him? Or is it they haven’t seen him in years? Nobody will fall for their bs.

Why is it you are so determined to defend the BHs in this case and not the rights of these citizens? Your default position is defend these guys who held a pregnant woman holding her 3 year old at gun point. Im not sure how old you are, and from past threads I thought you were an armed security guard, I just hope you never get into LE with that attitude. People in positions of "authority" that have this kind of world view are the problem.

Im all for waiting for the facts, and we have all made assumptions in this thread, but I find certain things youve said to be disconcerting.

 

[Celt]

If you have Facebook

Thanks, i dont but I found it and it looks like most have assumed in this thread. These guys were out of line.

 

[Toecutter]

There's a video of just the security camera footage in this article.

Lawsuit: Police aided bounty hunters who held pregnant woman, toddler at gunpoint

A lawsuit alleges that without showing a warrant and without consent, two bail recovery agents searched a home aided by Buffalo police officers.

buffalonews.com

 

[Chevusa]

Why is it you are so determined to defend the BHs in this case and not the rights of these citizens? Your default position is defend these guys who held a pregnant woman holding her 3 year old at gun point. Im not sure how old you are, and from past threads I thought you were an armed security guard, I just hope you never get into LE with that attitude. People in positions of "authority" that have this kind of world view are the problem.

You are a fool and have shown it here. Why are you defending criminal scum? Give us another media talking point. Pregnant. Check. Gunpoint check. Lol stop. It’s predictable as can be. Let me guess she could feel the cold barrel of the gun on her forehead? They had a lawful reason and authority to enter. This was listed as his home. It wasn’t a random home that happened to be the relatives. You don’t pick up on clues too well huh? They were related because that’s where he lives! Ding ding ding! Him not being home at the time or slipping out the back doesn’t negate anything. It’s lawful. End of story. This is shown by the facts and actions. They did not call the police to conspire to commit a crime. If you are doing something you shouldn’t be you don’t call the cops that you don’t even know to come meet you there beforehand. Start picking up on the clues.

 

[drowhawk]

Yeah after seeing that video, I would have told them to get bent.

 

[GOPerfect]

You are a fool and have shown it here. Why are you defending criminal scum? Give us another media talking point. Pregnant. Check. Gunpoint check. Lol stop. It’s predictable as can be. Let me guess she could feel the cold barrel of the gun on her forehead? They had a lawful reason and authority to enter. This was listed as his home. It wasn’t a random home that happened to be the relatives. You don’t pick up on clues too well huh? They were related because that’s where he lives! Ding ding ding! Him not being home at the time or slipping out the back doesn’t negate anything. It’s lawful. End of story. This is shown by the facts and actions. They did not call the police to conspire to commit a crime. If you are doing something you shouldn’t be you don’t call the cops that you don’t even know to come meet you there beforehand. Start picking up on the clues.

This, I posted a bit ago....

This is not opinion, this is law. Law...


When someone accepts bail, they essentially form a contract in which they surrender several legal rights in return for being let out. Part of this agreement allows a bounty hunter to enter your property to re-arrest you if you attempt to escape. They do not, however, have the right to enter a third party's residence without permission, even if the fugitive is inside. The third party hasn't signed any agreement with the state, so bounty hunters have no special rights when dealing with them.

 

[spat]

You are a fool and have shown it here. Why are you defending criminal scum? Give us another media talking point. Pregnant. Check. Gunpoint check. Lol stop. It’s predictable as can be. Let me guess she could feel the cold barrel of the gun on her forehead? They had a lawful reason and authority to enter. This was listed as his home. It wasn’t a random home that happened to be the relatives. You don’t pick up on clues too well huh? They were related because that’s where he lives! Ding ding ding! Him not being home at the time or slipping out the back doesn’t negate anything. It’s lawful. End of story. This is shown by the facts and actions. They did not call the police to conspire to commit a crime. If you are doing something you shouldn’t be you don’t call the cops that you don’t even know to come meet you there beforehand. Start picking up on the clues.

The BH's being legally entitled to be there (if they even were) has nothing to do with the homeowner's right to defend his family from an armed home invasion.

The likely outcome of this case is that the BH's will not face criminal charges (what they did has enough trappings of legality that the prosecutor won't want to go there)

Their agency might cease to exist though after the homeowner gets done suing them.

It's also quite probable that if they had kicked in the door and this homeowner put a round in each of their heads, he would also walk, and would likely *still* end up owning the bail agency for all the trauma they caused.

Art 35 is not on the side of the BH's here, no matter how much you want it to be.

 

[Toecutter]

You are a fool and have shown it here. Why are you defending criminal scum? Give us another media talking point. Pregnant. Check. Gunpoint check. Lol stop. It’s predictable as can be. Let me guess she could feel the cold barrel of the gun on her forehead? They had a lawful reason and authority to enter. This was listed as his home. It wasn’t a random home that happened to be the relatives. You don’t pick up on clues too well huh? They were related because that’s where he lives! Ding ding ding! Him not being home at the time or slipping out the back doesn’t negate anything. It’s lawful. End of story. This is shown by the facts and actions. They did not call the police to conspire to commit a crime. If you are doing something you shouldn’t be you don’t call the cops that you don’t even know to come meet you there beforehand. Start picking up on the clues.

I dont see anyone defending the guy who jumped bail, its the innocent people who were terrorized in the middle of the night . We don't know if the guy even lived there.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Article 35 here in NY State would 100% back up the home owner. 100%!!

But wait the 6 month security guard said it wouldn't, how are you going to tell him he is wrong

 

[Edwardteach72]

I am curious, you talk like you are an expert in this...

What exact training and education do you have in regards the Article 35 and the CPL/Penal codes??

He took a 40hr armed security class

 

[FRB]

And a top lawyer was also brought in. So right from the source then affirmed by experienced law professionals. Don’t get any better than that. Of course some think google U is a good instructor too.

If it is affirmed by said professionals you mention, what is the difference is it if it is in person or on the internet?

 

[drowhawk]

is it if it is

You really don't like dyslexic people, do you?

 

[FRB]

It goes to grand jury to be fair and independent. That’s the entire point. They will decide. Not the prosecutor.

Hmm... in theory, but in reality, the prosecutor gets what he pushes most of the time.

 

[Chevusa]

This, I posted a bit ago....

This is not opinion, this is law. Law...


When someone accepts bail, they essentially form a contract in which they surrender several legal rights in return for being let out. Part of this agreement allows a bounty hunter to enter your property to re-arrest you if you attempt to escape. They do not, however, have the right to enter a third party's residence without permission, even if the fugitive is inside. The third party hasn't signed any agreement with the state, so bounty hunters have no special rights when dealing with them.

I read it. I’m sure that was his legal residence.

 

[spat]

I read it. I’m sure that was his legal residence.

Care to enlighten us how you know that ?

 

[GOPerfect]

I read it. I’m sure that was his legal residence.

How did you come to that conclusion??

 

[Chevusa]

It is if affirmed by said professionals you mention, what is the difference is it if it is in person or on the internet?

Because what we were taught and certified in is much deeper than the readings on google. Things don’t always mean what you think they do. You don’t know the history and past decisions. You don’t know that there must be all 3 prongs met. That is not on google but it is law and the jury instructions will surely include it. You literally don’t know what you don’t know. This is not an area you want to be wrong.

 

[GOPerfect]

I read it. I’m sure that was his legal residence.

His legal address is 2805 Summerville Road, Erie Pa 16510.

Not Buffalo NY.

Just saying

 

[FRB]

Because what we were taught and certified in is much deeper than the readings on google. Things don’t always mean what you think they do. You don’t know the history and past decisions. You don’t know that there must be all 3 prongs met. That is not on google but it is law and the jury instructions will surely include it. You literally don’t know what you don’t know. This is not an area you want to be wrong.

I am saying what you were taught could be on the internet in its whole too. In person or not it is the same, for some people actually better - I learn better from reading then from seminars where a handful of know it all people sometimes dominate and waste time with their opinion and talking over the instructors.

 

[Chevusa]

I dont see anyone defending the guy who jumped bail, its the innocent people who were terrorized in the middle of the night . We don't know if the guy even lived there.

Right. But the facts point to he did. So until proven otherwise we can reasonably assume all was done lawfully and properly. Wrongdoing has to be proven. Not the other way around. Yes after the fact the family was traumatized and now has nightmares. I’ve heard it all before. They knew his criminal past and that he was on the run and they are not innocent themselves. That’s what I can reasonably assume. Now they want to get paid. Shocking.

 

[GOPerfect]

Because what we were taught and certified in is much deeper than the readings on google. Things don’t always mean what you think they do. You don’t know the history and past decisions. You don’t know that there must be all 3 prongs met. That is not on google but it is law and the jury instructions will surely include it. You literally don’t know what you don’t know. This is not an area you want to be wrong.

Why are you so obsessed with Google? Seriously dude, how do you know what education people have? You have one academy. That makes you an expert? C'mon man..... You had one day of training, backed by a conversation with a lawyer. Yeah, that is all the training if you went through NY State Academy.

I have two degrees in different forms of law and criminology. I have three Police academy's, I have done classes through the FBI training academy. You have one day worth of reading and you claim to be an expert. You dog others for Google searches, I think you have mentioned that at least twenty times. You are so very wrong in nearly all that you have typed...

 

[Toecutter]

Right. But the facts point to he did. So until proven otherwise we can reasonably assume all was done lawfully and properly. Wrongdoing has to be proven. Not the other way around. Yes after the fact the family was traumatized and now has nightmares. I’ve heard it all before. They knew his criminal past and that he was on the run and they are not innocent themselves. That’s what I can reasonably assume. Now they want to get paid. Shocking.

He wasn't there how are they guilty of anything?

 

[Chevusa]

His legal address is 2805 Summerville Road, Erie Pa 16510.

Not Buffalo NY.

Just saying

You saw his court papers? You saw what he swore to as his current address? You saw his release agreement?

just saying

 

[FRB]

They knew his criminal past and that he was on the run and they are not innocent themselves. That’s what I can reasonably assume. Now they want to get paid. Shocking.

WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT!!! I knew my cousin was a murderer and in prison slit the throat of the Son Of Sam so now because I know this if he was on the run bounty hunters can just enter my house... No way Jose.