Deal reached to legalize marijuana in NYS for recreational use (merged threads)

[drowhawk]

Your analogies and examples make no sense at all.

I try to engage in real conversations with you, I do think you are capable.
Sorry

Post #23: "As long as I, as a payer of taxes, need to be forced to care for these personal choices, I against your notion of full personal choices."

I, the payer of taxers, am forced to care for these personal choices (mass shootings), therefore I am against full personal choices.

Drugs are not the only thing someone can do in order to create a burden on society. You can commit a mass shooting, rob a bank, rape an innocent person, scam people, etc... There are plenty of things as a result of "personal choice" that create a burden on society. Where do you draw the line? At what point are we obligated to actually make data-driven decisions instead of emotionally-driven ones?

 

[GOPerfect]

Post #23: "As long as I, as a payer of taxes, need to be forced to care for these personal choices, I against your notion of full personal choices."

I, the payer of taxers, am forced to care for these personal choices (mass shootings), therefore I am against full personal choices.

Drugs are not the only thing someone can do in order to create a burden on society. You can commit a mass shooting, rob a bank, rape an innocent person, scam people, etc... There are plenty of things as a result of "personal choice" that create a burden on society. Where do you draw the line? At what point are we obligated to actually make data-driven decisions instead of emotionally-driven ones?

This thread is specifically about drugs. I am staying on that topic.

I never involve my feelings into these types of conversations.

Give me a few minutes I'll finish my lunch and I will add more...

 

[GOPerfect]

Okay, I have finished. Grilled cheese and ham and a bowl of chili.


You speak of the war on drugs. I agree that this has been a waste of time, effort and money. I would like to see it all go away. ALL of it.

This war on drugs also includes Rehab clinics paid for by me, the tax payer. Shut down all that are fully or partially funded by the US taxpayer. Granted, that would shut down about 99% of them.

Stop payment of the free Medicaid for these junkies and crackheads. All free medical would end. No more walk in the Emergency room for free treatment. No more free Mental health assistance for these people either. The vast majority of junkies and crack heads have mental issues; shut off all of that free assistance.

Free Narcan, stop this practice as well. In 2020, in the Erie County area, more that 3500 doses were administered to OD patients. Paid for by the tax payer. End this practice all together.

Welfare payments and Social Security disability paid to these users, because their drug use is considered a disability, needs to end as well.

SNAP (food stamps), yep, cancel that for all that use and abuse.

Mandatory drug testing for all users of these drugs as well if you want to be on the government tit. If no test is freely taken, no tax funded payments given.

You see, choices of person should be full choices. These junkies and crackheads and potheads should not have it both ways. You want to have your personal choices? Absolutely, but give up any and all support of the Government when it comes time to feed you, cloth you, house you, give you medical care or life saving techniques.

I am more for real personal choices than many here.

 

[Saltwater60]

Take into account the costs associated with locking people up for a plant. I have no doubt that changes the equation significantly.

But we don’t anymore. They get a $250 ticket now. Also keep in mind only 3 oz is legal.

 

[drowhawk]

Okay, I have finished. Grilled cheese and ham and a bowl of chili.


You speak of the war on drugs. I agree that this has been a waste of time, effort and money. I would like to see it all go away. ALL of it.

This war on drugs also includes Rehab clinics paid for by me, the tax payer. Shut down all that are fully or partially funded by the US taxpayer. Granted, that would shut down about 99% of them.

Stop payment of the free Medicaid for these junkies and crackheads. All free medical would end. No more walk in the Emergency room for free treatment. No more free Mental health assistance for these people either. The vast majority of junkies and crack heads have mental issues; shut off all of that free assistance.

Free Narcan, stop this practice as well. In 2020, in the Erie County area, more that 3500 doses were administered to OD patients. Paid for by the tax payer. End this practice all together.

Welfare payments and Social Security disability paid to these users, because their drug use is considered a disability, needs to end as well.

SNAP (food stamps), yep, cancel that for all that use and abuse.

Mandatory drug testing for all users of these drugs as well if you want to be on the government tit. If no test is freely taken, no tax funded payments given.

You see, choices of person should be full choices. These junkies and crackheads and potheads should not have it both ways. You want to have your personal choices? Absolutely, but give up any and all support of the Government when it comes time to feed you, cloth you, house you, give you medical care or life saving techniques.

I am more for real personal choices than many here.

I agree with everything you said as far as the end-game. We have a lot of work to do in order to get there and I think maybe where we diverge is in methodology; not motive.

Believe me, I am not comfortable with drug-addicts living off of the taxpayer and being allowed to make the same mistakes over and over again.

 

[drowhawk]

But we don’t anymore. They get a $250 ticket now. Also keep in mind only 3 oz is legal.

Concentrated Cannabis is still criminal possession as is sales over 2oz (I believe). Don't get caught growing it under current law either; it's not a $250 slap on the wrist.

 

[GOPerfect]

I agree with everything you said as far as the end-game. We have a lot of work to do in order to get there and I think maybe where we diverge is in methodology; not motive.

Believe me, I am not comfortable with drug-addicts living off of the taxpayer and being allowed to make the same mistakes over and over again.

Legalize this shit fully and the problem will grow beyond imagination.

Gotta shut down all services to these people prior to making all drugs legal.

The problem may solve itself in the long run if done correctly....

Shut down all assistance, legalize the drugs and more will die. The more that die, the less users there will be. Less users, less poison in our neighborhoods. Eventually, all the Junkies and crackheads will be dead and the war on drugs can completely end.

 

[Saltwater60]

Organized crime prospers in a black market. Legalize said <taboo activity here> and the crime syndicates no longer have funding. Legalize all drugs, open the borders, and legalize prostitution. The Mexican cartels will go extinct in less than a year and the sex trafficking trade will all but disappear.

There is still a black market in every state that legalized weed. There’s still a black market to cigarette, gambling and pretty much everything else.
Most sex trafficking is under age girls and I don’t see pedophilia being legalized soon. Also do you really think prostitutes will register with the state and pay taxes? Can you imagine the hoops they will have to jump through? Most prostitute because they are addicts and to support that.
Making something legal doesn’t eliminate demand for the black market. Hell landscaping is legal but if I had to go through all the BS of setting up a company, paying taxes, pay insurance and all that I wouldn’t do it.

 

[Saltwater60]

Concentrated Cannabis is still criminal possession as is sales over 2oz (I believe). Don't get caught growing it under current law either; it's not a $250 slap on the wrist.

I just talked with a corrections guard yesterday he said they just destroy it. It’s not even worth it for them to do anything about it anymore.

 

[drowhawk]

I just talked with a corrections guard yesterday he said they just destroy it. It’s not even worth it for them to do anything about it anymore.

Hrm... I'll have to tell all the folks serving time for sale/distribution in NY. They will be thrilled!!!

 

[GOPerfect]

Hrm... I'll have to tell all the folks serving time for sale/distribution in NY. They will be thrilled!!!

If people are serving real time, It is because they were dealing mass quantity.

 

[drowhawk]

Legalize this shit fully and the problem will grow beyond imagination.

Gotta shut down all services to these people prior to making all drugs legal.

The problem may solve itself in the long run if done correctly....

Shut down all assistance, legalize the drugs and more will die. The more that die, the less users there will be. Less users, less poison in our neighborhoods. Eventually, all the Junkies and crackheads will be dead and the war on drugs can completely end.

I don't know that the problem will "grow" in any measurable fashion. It will just be in our faces and more apparent. I have yet to meet somebody interested in trying recreational heroin but hasn't done it yet because it's illegal. Maybe this is where we disagree.

 

[GOPerfect]

I don't know that the problem will "grow" in any measurable fashion. It will just be in our faces and more apparent. I have yet to meet somebody interested in trying recreational heroin but hasn't done it yet because it's illegal. Maybe this is where we disagree.

My point of the growth are the services that will be needed.

 

[drowhawk]

There is still a black market in every state that legalized weed. There’s still a black market to cigarette, gambling and pretty much everything else.
Most sex trafficking is under age girls and I don’t see pedophilia being legalized soon. Also do you really think prostitutes will register with the state and pay taxes? Can you imagine the hoops they will have to jump through? Most prostitute because they are addicts and to support that.
Making something legal doesn’t eliminate demand for the black market. Hell landscaping is legal but if I had to go through all the BS of setting up a company, paying taxes, pay insurance and all that I wouldn’t do it.

The black market is still prevalent but not near to the extent that it was before legalization. Hypothetically if I wanted a prostitute, I would personally chose the one that works in a clean space, is regularly tested, and is somewhat accountable for their business. It's the same reason I don't put a steel bowl on my head and let my fiance run the clippers. Yeah I'm sure she could do it, but it would be much better at an actual hair stylist.

Apply it to drugs. You can buy recreational cocaine that is tested for purity, packaged and sealed properly, and doesn't require you to visit a violent place in the city to purchase. OR you can buy the cocaine that has been cut 50 times with who-knows-what and put your life in your hands.

Yeah you can never completely eliminate a black market, but you can allow legal businesses to compete and drive them into obscurity. That's exactly what happened with alcohol and is still happening today.

 

[drowhawk]

My point of the growth are the services that will be needed.

Not trying to argue, genuinely curious: how/why will those services grow with legalization?

 

[Darth]

There is no legitimate reason for it to be illegal.

No matter the faux outrage because you've been conditioned think so.

But of course they fuck it up as NY does by taxing and not fully legalizing it.

 

[GOPerfect]

Not trying to argue, genuinely curious: how/why will those services grow with legalization?

I have a decent amount to add, I gotta go to work. I am running late, I'll check back after work....

 

[drowhawk]

They're is no legitimate reason for it to be legal.

No matter the faux outrage because you've been conditioned think so.

But of course thet fuck it up as NY does by taxing and not fully legalizing it.

Yeah? You strike me as someone who supports legalization.

 

[BerettaGuy]

Assemblywoman Monica Wallace (D-Cheektowaga). "This legislation, if it passes next week, would set up the regulatory structure and an office of Cannabis Management. It's just a framework." There is still the process of licensing, applications, and traffic safety to name a few outstanding issues.

Allow me to translate: Assemblywoman Monica Wallace (D-Cheektowaga). "This legislation, if it passes next week, would set up the regulatory structure which means Fees Taxes and barcodeing every leaf of every plant with a GPS chip in every bud.

 

[drowhawk]

Assemblywoman Monica Wallace (D-Cheektowaga). "This legislation, if it passes next week, would set up the regulatory structure and an office of Cannabis Management. It's just a framework." There is still the process of licensing, applications, and traffic safety to name a few outstanding issues.

Allow me to translate: Assemblywoman Monica Wallace (D-Cheektowaga). "This legislation, if it passes next week, would set up the regulatory structure which means Fees Taxes and barcodeing every leaf of every plant with a GPS chip in every bud.

As long as the bongs are SAFE-compliant and 10inches or less I'm cool with it. Oh and no more than 7cc's of smoke unless at an approved smoking event and then you can hit 10cc's of volume.

 

[@thewheels]

Yeah? You strike me as someone who supports legalization.

Hacked account?

 

[drowhawk]

Hacked account?

I was thinking type-o.

 

[stokes]

Legalizing it wont make the black market disappear as some have reasoned.In states where its legal it is far more expensive to get it legally.The wife and I shop in Great Barrington Mass where they have dispensaries.The crowds before covid were unbelievable.I would often stop and talk to the cops that were assigned to the location while the wife was shopping.They confirmed what I had observed,there were very few people on those lines under 50 yrs old or so.It is too expensive for the kids so they still buy from their street dealers.I have a brother in law who never grew up,he still uses weed.Everything he buys related to weed comes directly from one of the legal dispensaries,mostly Calif with official state seals affixed to the packages.I asked if he had somebody buying it legally and sending it to him,nope, he gets it from his "street peddler".So not only has legalization not deterred the black market, it supplies the black market with product.I could give a rats ass about legalization,but what irks me is that in every other state that has legalized it there was a vote by the general public about the issue.Not here.A couple years ago Cuomo said no way it would go in NY,its a "gateway drug" a year later he was onboard and actually leading the charge to legalize it, with no concern about who did or didnt want it to happen.

 

[drowhawk]

Legalizing it wont make the black market disappear as some have reasoned.In states where its legal it is far more expensive to get it legally.The wife and I shop in Great Barrington Mass where they have dispensaries.The crowds before covid were unbelievable.I would often stop and talk to the cops that were assigned to the location while the wife was shopping.They confirmed what I had observed,there were very few people on those lines under 50 yrs old or so.It is too expensive for the kids so they still buy from their street dealers.I have a brother in law who never grew up,he still uses weed.Everything he buys related to weed comes directly from one of the legal dispensaries,mostly Calif with official state seals affixed to the packages.I asked if he had somebody buying it legally and sending it to him,nope, he gets it from his "street peddler".So not only has legalization not deterred the black market, it supplies the black market with product.I could give a rats ass about legalization,but what irks me is that in every other state that has legalized it there was a vote by the general public about the issue.Not here.A couple years ago Cuomo said no way it would go in NY,its a "gateway drug" a year later he was onboard and actually leading the charge to legalize it, with no concern about who did or didnt want it to happen.

Not trying to argue here, but if Marijuana is legal, there is (by definition) no more "black market." There are unregulated and untaxed sales, sure. The product itself is not prohibited though. It's no different than paying the neighborhood kid cash to cut your lawn vs. paying a professional landscaping company. And as with anything in life, you get what you pay for.

 

[SonOfSun]

Not trying to argue here, but if Marijuana is legal, there is (by definition) no more "black market." There are unregulated and untaxed sales, sure. The product itself is not prohibited though. It's no different than paying the neighborhood kid cash to cut your lawn vs. paying a professional landscaping company. And as with anything in life, you get what you pay for.

I take it as black market sort of in the way kids under 21 buy beer, straw sales and the like. Kids under 21 buying beer isn't legal in the marketplace, but it still happens.

 

[stokes]

Not trying to argue here, but if Marijuana is legal, there is (by definition) no more "black market." There are unregulated and untaxed sales, sure. The product itself is not prohibited though. It's no different than paying the neighborhood kid cash to cut your lawn vs. paying a professional landscaping company. And as with anything in life, you get what you pay for.

By definition?Point me to the dictionary that is in.Sounds more like some lib pipe dream.Like paying a kid to cut your lawn? I think not.I dont know about other states but In Mass it is not legal to possess it in public unless it is in the sealed package you bought it in.Once you get it home and open it you cant use it or even bring it outside.It is limited legalization and the black market is actually thriving.I remember reading reports when either Oregon or Washington legalized it the price was keeping the black market in business,they didnt even have to lower their street prices the legal stuff was priced so high.So the kid in the park selling pot is breaking the law and is indeed operating in the black market.As I stated in my last post my bil is buying what was a legally produced product in another state, illegally in this state.How did it get here?Did the unicorns ride a rainbow from Calif to NY with it? No. it was bought here thru the black market that you seem to think ceased to exist, by definition,in Calif.

 

[S&W Fan]

Hacked account?

I was thinking type-o.

Facetious

 

[Darth]

Yeah? You strike me as someone who supports legalization.

Wow, talk about a typo. xD

Should be " There is no legitimate reason for it to be illegal. "

My bad, I had just smoked a bowl.

 

[libertysnake]

Thank god. We were running out of things for our legislature to do, and we all know how they don't like to sit idle when there is important work to do.

I guess they can rest now now that no other more pressing issues need to be addressed.

 

[tirwin1]

There is still a black market in every state that legalized weed. There’s still a black market to cigarette, gambling and pretty much everything else.
Most sex trafficking is under age girls and I don’t see pedophilia being legalized soon. Also do you really think prostitutes will register with the state and pay taxes? Can you imagine the hoops they will have to jump through? Most prostitute because they are addicts and to support that.
Making something legal doesn’t eliminate demand for the black market. Hell landscaping is legal but if I had to go through all the BS of setting up a company, paying taxes, pay insurance and all that I wouldn’t do it.

Without reading anything about the plan I can safely guarantee the state will screw it up and perpetuate the black market in marijuana. The actual revenue received will fall short of any forecast.