Seriously, Why do people think socialism is a good idea ?

Podmonkey · Sep 3, 2019

Notice that the vast majority of socialists in this country are career politicians and sheltered trust fund babies. No one that that had to bust their own ass to make their way in the world and has an IQ of at least 80 is a socialist.
Socialism is for the lazy and the dumb.

Carlos Hathcock · Sep 3, 2019

Podmonkey said:
Notice that the vast majority of socialists in this country are career politicians and sheltered trust fund babies. No one that that had to bust their own ass to make their way in the world and has an IQ of at least 80 is a socialist.
Socialism is for the lazy and the dumb.

Beat me to it. Well done.

spat · Sep 3, 2019

They all hear that statistic that says a few billionaires have 90% of the wealth and don't understand the difference between wealth and income.

They think that they can just steal some money from those billionaires and have everything they want.

They don't understand that even if you straight up confiscated 100% of all the billionaires money, you couldn't even fund the current federal budget for 9 months, then all the money would be gone forever. That's without any of the pie in the sky promises from the Democrats, *and* it assumes that all that money is sitting in some liquid form.

In reality the government would end up with a lot of real estate and stocks and bonds that it couldn't liquidate without tanking the entire economy.

They also fancy themselves as Robin hood, "robbing from the rich to give to the poor". They forget that even in that story "the rich" was the government and it got that way by taxing the poor.

Blimey · Sep 3, 2019

Were not taught history. It really is that simple.

kev74 · Sep 3, 2019

The lure of free stuff is tempting.

Steal2B · Sep 3, 2019

BDinPutnam · Sep 3, 2019

I am going to somewhat play contra here.

Most of them refuse to define it because they can't, so generally what they're doing is grasping at "not capitalism the way we know it."

Do not fall into the trap of thinking this is a particularly easy cancer to treat. Our side yelling "SOCIALISTS! BAD!" may be correct but doesn't get us anywhere.

Podmonkey · Sep 3, 2019

Tisto said:
For lack of wanting the opening post to be longer than War and Peace, I fully understand that the Socialist movement is a youth driven event. Antifa is not a bunch of 55 year olds looking for a couple hours of fun demolishing storefronts and assaulting random passersby. The people selling Socialism are old. Bernie Sanders. He knows that his "guidance" in establishing a Socialist society will be very lucrative for him. Money, power, fame, addoration, hell, he probably thinks there will be monuments of him in front of every indoctrination camp.

People like AOC are just useful idiots for those un-named and un-known at the top trying to get this all going.

But still I come back to the original question, What is it exactly, that is so seductive about Socialism that people run towards it no matter how many times it has been proven to fail ?

They way I see it the communist movement, let's call it for what it is, in this country is a case of a bunch of old, failed leftist politicians riding a wave of dumb, sheltered, impressionable youth like a donkey for political gain.

masterswimmer · Sep 3, 2019

Soooo many of those in favor of socialism do not earn a living or earn so little that the proposition of receiving multiple levels of free stuff is a bonanza for them. They know they aren't earning enough to have their income taxed exorbitantly and are told the rich, 1%'ers will shoulder the burden.

You tell me, what do they have to lose?

Productive members of society understand the pitfalls of socialism. The unproductive leeches of society just don't get it.

Podmonkey · Sep 3, 2019

BDinPutnam said:
I am going to somewhat play contra here.

Most of them refuse to define it because they can't, so generally what they're doing is grasping at "not capitalism the way we know it."

Do not fall into the trap of thinking this is a particularly easy cancer to treat. Our side yelling "SOCIALISTS! BAD!" may be correct but doesn't get us anywhere.

You know what they say about communists and helicopters.........

We should have listened to Patton. We should have listened to MacArthur.

spat · Sep 3, 2019

masterswimmer said:
Soooo many of those in favor of socialism do not earn a living or earn so little that the proposition of receiving multiple levels of free stuff is a bonanza for them. They know they aren't earning enough to have their income taxed exorbitantly and are told the rich, 1%'ers will shoulder the burden.

You tell me, what do they have to lose?

Productive members of society understand the pitfalls of socialism. The unproductive leeches of society just don't get it.

Good, honest people, even if they will be net beneficiaries recognize theft for what it is.

Just because you aren't the one robbing your neighbors, if you are knowingly accepting the stolen property you are still guilty.

masterswimmer · Sep 4, 2019

spat said:
Good, honest people, even if they will be net beneficiaries recognize theft for what it is.

Just because you aren't the one robbing your neighbors, if you are knowingly accepting the stolen property you are still guilty.

But endorsing socialism and voting for those slimey candidates, providing they were to somehow win, would make the 'theft' concept inapplicable. It would become the norm (read, legal) when they offer free college tuition, free healthcare, and all the other social programs that go along with the demise of a nation.

GOPerfect · Sep 4, 2019

I think many should at least try to understand exactly what this thing called Socialism really is.

Hellooooooooo....... We already have it here in the US. It surrounds us, it is all around us. Everyday life, we are engulfed in Socialism type programs.

GOYABEAN · Sep 4, 2019

Because they live their life wearing rainbow glasses seeing unicorns everywhere they roam :violin:

Podmonkey · Sep 4, 2019

GOPerfect said:
I think many should at least try to understand exactly what this thing called Socialism really is.

Hellooooooooo....... We already have it here in the US. It surrounds us, it is all around us. Everyday life, we are engulfed in Socialism type programs.

When they say "Socialism" what they actually mean is Communism. I would say the reason we see a push towards communism is because we have adopted socialism. Roosevelt's "New Deal" put us on the path to ruin.

Curmudgeon · Sep 4, 2019

I don't personally see it as just a youth thing. IMO, it's some naive people who fail to realize that government makes everything they touch more expensive or more poorly run.

Generally, there's no depth to their knowledge.

Podmonkey · Sep 4, 2019

spat · Sep 4, 2019

masterswimmer said:
But endorsing socialism and voting for those slimey candidates, providing they were to somehow win, would make the 'theft' concept inapplicable. It would become the norm (read, legal) when they offer free college tuition, free healthcare, and all the other social programs that go along with the demise of a nation.

Legalized theft is still theft.

Saltwater60 · Sep 4, 2019

Is it that everyone is so damn selfish and entitled as to believe that their every need should be provided to them with no effort on their part ?

This and people don’t want to think or do for themselves. They want everything provided for them yet they do t trust the government.

spat · Sep 4, 2019

GOPerfect said:
I think many should at least try to understand exactly what this thing called Socialism really is.

Hellooooooooo....... We already have it here in the US. It surrounds us, it is all around us. Everyday life, we are engulfed in Socialism type programs.

Socialism isn't a "yes or no" sort of thing, it's a matter of degree.

Anything between pure capitalism and full blown communism can be called "socialism".

I like to measure "degree of socialism" by what % of a countries GDP does the government take in taxes.

It's an imperfect measure for sure, because it doesn't take into account the cost of regulations, or account for how those regulations give government effective control of tons of money that it doesn't actually take in in taxes, but it gives a rough idea.

The simple truth is that we always had some degree of socialism, even in the heyday of lassiez faire capitalism of the 19th century. It, like government in general, is a necessary evil that should be eliminated wherever possible.

MadScientist · Sep 4, 2019

I can’t really recall ever having a real formal economics lesson in grade school. I think this factors into it.

I do remember learning about the communist revolutions in history class. The only problem was it was handled with kid gloves “this is dumb economics, and they were our enemies” pretty much summed it up.

I think the other problem is Utopianism. Younger people will naturally incline toward this thinking because they don’t have enough real world experience. Socialist ideas don’t outright sound evil by any means, rather altruistic, but reality eventually slaps you in the face that it’s all hand-waiving and theorizing and not at all feasible. As they age and experience is gained I think they will grow out of it.

tirwin1 · Sep 4, 2019

spat said:
They all hear that statistic that says a few billionaires have 90% of the wealth and don't understand the difference between wealth and income.

They think that they can just steal some money from those billionaires and have everything they want.

They don't understand that even if you straight up confiscated 100% of all the billionaires money, you couldn't even fund the current federal budget for 9 months, then all the money would be gone forever. That's without any of the pie in the sky promises from the Democrats, *and* it assumes that all that money is sitting in some liquid form.

In reality the government would end up with a lot of real estate and stocks and bonds that it couldn't liquidate without tanking the entire economy.

They also fancy themselves as Robin hood, "robbing from the rich to give to the poor". They forget that even in that story "the rich" was the government and it got that way by taxing the poor.

Exactly. Couldn't have said it any better.

Phazer · Sep 4, 2019

Tisto said:
This is a serious question I'm posing.

Is it that these kids grew up with public school teachers constantly telling them that socialism was the only equitable system of government ?

Is it that everyone is so damn selfish and entitled as to believe that their every need should be provided to them with no effort on their part ?

Is it that the supply of older family members that fled from actual communist societies have all died and their stories of living under dictators have never been told to these kids ?

Is it that they have all grown up having been given everything they ever wanted and never having to work for it that they believe it really is possible to provide everyone with everything ?

Has the ability to reason, and to learn, and critical thinking been somehow bred out of human DNA ?

Do history books no longer exist ? What about doccumentaries concerning the Eastern Block and similar regimes ?

Do people think that the citizens of Venezuela -- Right now, as I write this -- are happy eating rotten food from dumpsters, killing each other for toilet paper, and spending their day just trying to exist ?

It seems to me, that people were a whole lot smarter before everyone was so damn well educated. I grew up with relatives telling stories of how they escaped the Soviet oppression, walked to Poland, worked their fingers to the bone just to get on a boat headed for the "Land of Opportunity" with no money, only the clothes on their back. And they came. And they worked their asses off here. And they did so TO BE FREE. They knew what Socialism was. And they wanted no part of it. Now, just a few generations later, we have a bunch of shit-for-brains piss-ant little know-it-alls DEMANDING to be ruled by a dictator.

Basically, YES.

Phazer · Sep 4, 2019

These self-important virtue-signaling snowflakes do not seem to realize that their ideological leaders do not care if the poor get richer, only that the rich get poorer. It is pure class envy based on selfishness.

The Liberal Progressive leaders crave power and control. They do not care if they destroy the nation's economy to finance their vote-buying schemes. They only want to rule...even if all they get to rule over is a burning trash heap.

Phazer · Sep 4, 2019

Podmonkey said:
When they say "Socialism" what they actually mean is Communism. I would say the reason we see a push towards communism is because we have adopted socialism. Roosevelt's "New Deal" put us on the path to ruin.

Someone once said: "What is a Socialist? A patient Communist."

SomeSoldier · Sep 4, 2019

Free stuff

Mosinitis · Sep 4, 2019

I am guessing people are looking at actual issues and deciding on that, instead of fanatical adherence to ideological drivel and miss-characterized labels.

Phazer · Sep 4, 2019

Mosinitis said:
I am guessing people are looking at actual issues and deciding on that, instead of fanatical adherence to ideological drivel and miss-characterized labels.

I think it's a lot more simple: Too many people think that they're going to get free shit.

The problem with Socialism is that everyone thinks that they're going to get stuff paid for by their neighbor. However, their neighbor thinks the same thing.

Seriously, Why do people think socialism is a good idea ?

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