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They may at any time claim a standard 870 is an AW. That doesn't make it correct to say that the law makes it one.

The proposed new federal AWB explicitly defines all the parts as an AW. One of the reasons I don't accept these worst possible interpretations of laws that clearly have another purpose is that the worst things are queued up and waiting in clear language.

I don't believe that one either. The proposed law clearly prohibits assembling ghost guns. It takes a clearly incorrect reading to apply it to non-ghost guns. We could argue that one for quite a while since it won't pass the senate.

Barreled actions are a lot more problematic than lowers. Many(most,all?) can be fired and expel a projectile.

It doesn't really say any part. It says any part with the sole purpose of enabling full auto fire(or something to that effect). The obvious intention being to make full auto parts illegal in themselves. So the ruling for that shoelace which was in fact enabling auto fire was dumb but not quite...

Sure, With purchasing lowers we could just wait to see if they're still sold or not. Then we lose the fun of speculating on it. ;) Possession of others is a lot trickier. We could dump something that ends up being ok or with bad luck end up in jail for something we expected to be ok. You made...

It says WEAPON containing... There is no reason to consider a lower a weapon other than the ATF definition. Another problem is that if possession of a lower is criminal do you really stop being in possession just because you build it up? Then all ARs are illegal. Since every gun has some sort...

OTOH - I bet it won't be long before we see an administrative proclamation or change in the law that a lower purchase is subject to one of SAR or pistol license.

Exactly. NY 265 bans possession of dangerous weapons including firearms. The only reason to consider a lower a firearm is the ATFs arbitrary decision that for their purposes it is the one piece that is THE firearm. That doesn't matter for NYs possession law. Banning lowers may come but this...

No it's not.

There is absolutely nothing in the text of the semi auto license bill that was passed concerning ammo. I've read every word several times. eta-I was looking hard for the rimfire exemption in particular ;)

One point made in the link to a legal firm I provided is that given the lack of definition of what a pistol is maybe a shockwave can be one with some modification. So add a brace to make it intended to be fired with one hand? eta- The probable new ATF weight limit may be problematic. We'd need...

No doubt you've raised enough of a valid point that to be clearly safe from prosecution one would be well advised to add a stock to their alleged shotgun. eta - add stock to 18"er I see no 'safe' road to keeping a shockwave. Maybe stock AND new barrel? That would probably cost more than discard...

Interesting. Specifics?

https://www.newyorkcriminalattorneyblog.com/new-yorks-new-gun-laws-part-iv-closing-loopholes-others-and-magazines/ Lawyers don't claim to know these things yet either. This suggests both that counties probably shouldn't accept shockwaves as pistols and that the individual would be covered IF...

Thank you so much for repeating the same assumption one more time. Unforunately, I still don't accept it with absolutely no support other than you saying it one more time. My equally unsupported assumption remains that PGOs with 18" barrels have always been regarded as modifications of shotguns...

Only ex post facto if they charge you for something you did before the effective date. Possession doesn't count because you'd be doing it after the passage. For some reason ex post facto is a constitutional prohibition that legislatures almost never break.

If that is true then there is no discussion. They're now banned. In 40 years as a NY gun owner I don't recall any acknowledgement of this 'other' category until the shockwave came about. There was never any discussion of PGOs or literal 'sawed offs' with 18" barrels needing this logical...

Analogy fails on the assumption that there are other reasons your deed is not legal. So what is a pistol? It can;t be a rifle or shotgun or revolver. Can't be an SBS or SBR. What state law says a shockwave can't be? It definitely drops into none-of-the-above if it is NOT a licensed pistol, I'm...

It took me a while to believe it but there is absolutely no explicit definition of pistol in ny law. Given that, seems like having it on your pistol permit would make it a pistol. IFF they accepted it.

Another thing that occurs to me is it has always been considered legal to modify a shotgun as long as it remained 18/27. Even if you hacked off enough of the stock so it was useless for firing from the shoulder. Don;t ask me for binding legal precedent, though.

It depends on why PGO shotguns have been considered to be legal in NY. Because they're just a type of shotgun and clearly not SBS or because they fell through the none-of-the-above loophole? I think it's the first. I think PGO were federally ruled to be modifications of a shotgun originally...

There is some case law that if the changes are insufficient the gun can be considered 'a temporarily broken semi auto'. I don't know if that was federal, ny or another state(Cali?) As the Mass AG showed a couple years ago we're just one declaration away from anything being anything they choose...

Anybody heard anything from the counties? Preferably "We can't do this.Have to delay it." :) eta - I mean the SAR license, not the other stuff that drifted in here.

We already have basically the same law effective in NY. Passed last year and slightly amended just lately. https://legislation.nysenate.gov/pdf/bills/2021/S14A The NY law is simpler because it's a bit worse than the proposed federal law. It bans simple possession of guns without serials...

Let me provide the paranoid crew response in advance. These fact checkers are really all liberal liars. Therefore we now know even more certainly than before that this bill really would criminalize cleaning your gun.

The argument was made TO me that what biden said somehow supported the idea of this being a ban on cleaning guns. I don't understand it either.

His handlers just hope he can read the same words in the same order as what's on the prompter.

Found a transcript "Codifying my ban on ghost guns that don’t have serial numbers and can’t be traced" Exactly what I've said multiple times this law would do, Nothing supporting the total garbage in the thread title.

Absolutely not gonna happen. I read a few reports on it and saw nothing relevant to this thread.

Biden said he wanted to make it illegal to reassemble a legal gun?

Insult me all you want. Nobody is ever getting charged with a crime for reassembling an otherwise perfectly legal gun. It's not what this law says. It's not how it will be interpreted. They will never write a law saying that.

Now you're supporting incorrect conclusions with incorrect assumptions. You're right that existing crimes could be affected by the extended definition.(if your interpretation was correct) What are they, specifically? No, AR uppers are not going to require serialization because they have...

By that argument it makes no difference at all what the law(s) say or don't say. The bad guys will simply interpret anything to say anything they want. Anything you choose to make up is legitimate because they might decide to do the same. Even to the extent that may be true it has to be of some...

James is irrelevant to federal law. There is no discretion for current guns, Guns that are currently being sold and re-sold are locked into the current 1 piece serialization. Period, For new rulings, sure, I'll be they make multiple pieces serializable for any excuse at all.

specific answer - In the entire 3 screens of the law only one line establishes a new crime: “(aa) (1) (A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall be unlawful for any person to manufacture, sell, offer to sell, transfer, purchase, or receive a ghost gun in or affecting interstate or...

general answer - It never says anything else. It's titled untraceable firearms The section header is untraceable firearms. The fix is requiring serials. Everything else is details, exceptions and examples, Every single word, start to finish, is in the context of banning unserialized guns...

Nothing in this law applies to guns that already have a legally accepted serial.

“(B) For purposes of subparagraph (A)(i), if a weapon with more than 1 part that provides the housing or a structure designed to hold or integrate 1 or more fire control or essential components, each such part shall be considered a frame or receiver, unless the Attorney General has provided...

Does not apply to any gun that has already been declared to have one serialized receiver. IOW, does not apply to any gun currently on the market. In the future we and the manufacturers may have decisions to make if a gun would have 2 or 3 serialized parts. Is it worth it?

Garbage based on an incorrect understanding of what firearm means. That section of the bill bans unserialized guns. Period. With a whole lot of extra language to try to preemptively block any attempt to get around it. A complete AR is a firearm because it includes the serialized receiver...

Banning finishing of 80%ers is clearly the primary goal. Then they try to add language general enough to keep us troublemakers from finding a loophole to do wtf we want ;)

This is federal law. 'Firearm' is the serialized part. Strip your weapon for cleaning and you still have a firearm and some other parts. Reassemble and you are not assembling a firearm because you never didn't have one, Assembling a functional firearm would be things like making a pipe gun from...

NY always meant for every type of guns but rifles, shotguns and licensed handguns to be illegal. The logic was screwed up which left a hole for 'other' configured ARs, shockwaves,etc. They fixed the hole. This very clear purpose for this bill is one reason I believe it DOES NOT ban lowers.

It's a deliberately ridiculous way to interpret the word assemble in the context of the law. Harassing the writers of the law, I'm fine with. Misinforming gun owners, not so much.

Technically you have almost 30 days to legally buy a shockwave.(I doubt if any dealer would sell you one) Then at the end of that 30 days it would be an illegal item to possess. No grandfathering at all.

Hi. 1st post here, been a NY gun owner for almost 50 years. The way this is written we should still be able to buy uppers as un-regulated pieces of metal. We should still be able to buy lowers because they're not rifles, much less SA rifles. The question is will they recognize the loophole or...