Semi auto rifle license law passed and headed to governor
- Thread starter tiddlewinks315
- Start date
There is absolutely nothing in the text of the semi auto license bill that was passed concerning ammo.
I've read every word several times.
eta-I was looking hard for the rimfire exemption in particular
That lower receiver be it stripped or complete right to the Stock is an "Other" and banned.
No it's not.
OK, what is it then?
There may be some convolution between Federal and State Definitions.
Exactly.
NY 265 bans possession of dangerous weapons including firearms.
The only reason to consider a lower a firearm is the ATFs arbitrary decision that for their purposes it is the one piece that is THE firearm.
That doesn't matter for NYs possession law.
Banning lowers may come but this isn't it.
ANY OTHER WEAPON THAT IS NOT OTHERWISE DEFINED IN THIS
SECTION CONTAINING ANY COMPONENT THAT PROVIDES HOUSING OR A STRUCTURE
DESIGNED TO HOLD OR INTEGRATE ANY FIRE CONTROL COMPONENT THAT IS
DESIGNED TO OR MAY READILY BE CONVERTED TO EXPEL A PROJECTILE BY ACTION
OF EXPLOSIVE.
What is a Frame/Receiver?
We really won't know until the NYSP puts out the Law, and the Lawyers read over it and advise, until then all we can do is read the writings of abject idiots that have no clue as to what they passed.
We're pretty well already fucked, and unless WE can convince people to stop voting for Democrats it will only get worse...History has proved this!
It says WEAPON containing...
There is no reason to consider a lower a weapon other than the ATF definition.
Another problem is that if possession of a lower is criminal do you really stop being in possession just because you build it up?
Then all ARs are illegal.
Since every gun has some sort of frame or receiver now all guns are banned.
Buying a new barrelled action and putting it in your expensive 3-position stock would be illegal.
Some people want to be maximally paranoid and consider these absurdities devious features but I think they just show it's not what is intended or will be enforced. They're not ready for that level of ban. Yet.
You must remember this was written (ok, supplied to) a New York Legislator, one who likely doesn't know a ball cap from a cap and ball.
WE DO NOT KNOW EXACTLY what this all means, The way I read it includes a Frame or Receiver (that's the portion that holds the "Fire Control Components", Right?) Does it Matter whether you build it? Is it illegal in its current configuration? how about if a New York Licensed Gunsmith or Dealer in Firearms has it; does he have to build it first for you? We still can't get a determination IF there's going to be a new Licenses just for semi-automatics or will your current Handgun Licenses suffice, and if so will amendments have to be made or are the Rifles Grandfathered in, and if so how will we be able to show on demand they were possessed prior to the enactment.
This is New York, and making sense has no bearing on what you do or don't think makes sense, or is "Sensible".
Sure,
With purchasing lowers we could just wait to see if they're still sold or not.
Then we lose the fun of speculating on it.
Possession of others is a lot trickier.
We could dump something that ends up being ok or with bad luck end up in jail for something we expected to be ok.
You made a simple statement that lowers will be banned others.
My only important point is that I and others disagree and nobody should accept that as a factual statement at this point.
I'd love a chance to get even money down that we're still buying lowers after this shakes out.
There are probably 25-50,000 stripped lowers in this state just chilling in closets or on work benches.
I did make a simple statement and supplied the section of the Law I believe applies. Reading the portion I highlighted in bold, I believe applies directly to a Finished AR-15 Lower Receiver as well as others such as the fire control section of a Sig 320. Given the focus of and the speed with which these amendments to existing Law one might surmise they were written as much to dissuade under color of law as they were to actually outlaw.Sure,
With purchasing lowers we could just wait to see if they're still sold or not.
Then we lose the fun of speculating on it.
Possession of others is a lot trickier.
We could dump something that ends up being ok or with bad luck end up in jail for something we expected to be ok.
You made a simple statement that lowers will be banned others.
My only important point is that I and others disagree and nobody should accept that as a factual statement at this point.
I'd love a chance to get even money down that we're still buying lowers after this shakes out.
You know we still don't really know if "Bullet Buttons" are/were or are not legal modifications... Historical Precedence would dictate they are, but without a Court Case or non-existent) Ruling from the NYSP it's still a grey area. When the Governor spouted off that the Buffalo Shooter "modified" his AR-15 to make it illegal she inadvertently indicated it WAS Legal, same when she said they were going after "others" of which I'll bet she has no fucking idea of, but if she said they were going to outlaw them, then they must have already been legal to own. Words have exact meanings as does the way they form sentences... Problem is the people writing them in Albany are stupid "Smart People".
How many "Pre-Ban" Magazines do you think there were here? Didn't stop the Legislature from outlawing them did it?
Truebeliever
6.5 Creedmoor
The law change only applies to semi auto rifles so the ammo should not be effected.
ANY OTHER WEAPON THAT IS NOT OTHERWISE DEFINED IN THIS
SECTION CONTAINING ANY COMPONENT THAT PROVIDES HOUSING OR A STRUCTURE
DESIGNED TO HOLD OR INTEGRATE ANY FIRE CONTROL COMPONENT THAT IS
DESIGNED TO OR MAY READILY BE CONVERTED TO EXPEL A PROJECTILE BY ACTION
OF EXPLOSIVE. Modern "Smokeless" Ammunition uses a "Propellant" that rapidly expands creating a high pressure gas, "Black Powder" is an "explosive".
Truebeliever
6.5 Creedmoor
“Readily converted “ is the question. Without out the other parts, is it an “ other “. If you disassemble your rifle to repair the stock, is that component now an other?
I don't know what defines "Readily Converted". I have seen stripped AR lowers fully assembled in minutes. (Spikes Tactical had a guy that could complete one in a minute) while other people can't even figure out which springs go where, could it be the speed and easy of pinning a complete (unregulated) Upper to a Lower? If you assemble/disassemble in the Privacy of your own home one wouldn't think there would be an issue, but every Cop has a story about answering a Call to a residence and seeing all sorts of clearly illegal shit right out in the open.
NYSP-Gun Investigation Unit Senior Officer told me that having the parts that could be put together amounted to "constructive intent" (with the idea that simply seperating the upper from the Lower no longer made it a Gun) At one time ATF said that having M-16 parts was the same as building a machinegun.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
I was assured in the other thread that when you break your rifle down to clean it that the lower doesn't become an illegal weapon.
So is the proximity to the upper what makes the lower legal ?
How far apart can they be before it becomes an other ?
spat
.700 Nitro Express
The ATF defines any part of a machine-gun as a machine-gun.
That's where the "constructive possession" comes in.
They once ruled that a shoelace that had been used to tie a bolt to a trigger rendering the weapon full auto was a machine-gun.
Not the resulting contraption, the shoelace itself was a machine-gun.
The rules do not work that way for anything other than a machinegun.
It's all subjective and discretionary to the Investigating Officers.
Common sense would dictate that disassembling a Rifle to clean or repair it would not make a previously legal gun illegal, but we're talking about New York.
I believe there were proposals to the Law (Federal?) that if enacted would make such things illegal as they're going after the people assembling guns from kits and parts, but everything gets caught in the net, even the stuff you don't want. so it was dropped.
My intent was to show the lunacy, and IIRC the ATF finally capitulated and declared that M-16 Hammers and Triggers weren't machineguns as they were commonplace parts and the Receivers wouldn't accept the truly naughty part.
It doesn't really say any part.
It says any part with the sole purpose of enabling full auto fire(or something to that effect).
The obvious intention being to make full auto parts illegal in themselves.
So the ruling for that shoelace which was in fact enabling auto fire was dumb but not quite as dumb as it sounds.
I don't think they ever said all shoelaces are machine guns.
They did change the ruling later.
I don't believe that one either.
The proposed law clearly prohibits assembling ghost guns.
It takes a clearly incorrect reading to apply it to non-ghost guns.
We could argue that one for quite a while since it won't pass the senate.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
And there's *no way* an overzealous DA or federal agency would *ever* do that....
The proposed new federal AWB explicitly defines all the parts as an AW.
One of the reasons I don't accept these worst possible interpretations of laws that clearly have another purpose is that the worst things are queued up and waiting in clear language.
They may at any time claim a standard 870 is an AW.
That doesn't make it correct to say that the law makes it one.
Well were going tangential: this thread is about New York and the recently passed Laws: I'm much more concerned with State Laws than Federal including what is and isn't a machine gun. That's my fault for invoking them as an example.
spat said:
And there's *no way* an overzealous DA or federal agency would *ever* do that....
My thoughts too. "It's all subjective and discretionary to the Investigating Officers." Believe me when I tell you that MANY of those in Law Enforcement really don't know jack schitt about guns, and a good many of them shouldn't have one either!