.

[Marine Cpl]

Last I checked, apples to apples, a NY featureless rifle costs 10-20% more than an equivalent proper full functioning rifle. True, I have not checked in a while though.

Same rifle.

740 bucks featureless.

New York Legal AR15 SALE

750 bucks. Fully featured.

Windham Weaponry SRC AR-15 5.56 NATO Semi Auto Rifle, 16" Barrel 30 Rounds - R16M4FTT - 84803700002

 

[Marine Cpl]

And on what do you base this statement exactly? There are other factory 10/30 mags are easy to restore (simply remove rivet) if you go out of NY state.

Those aren't 10/30 magazines. Those are standard capacity magazines with rivets that can readily be restored according to the law but that's another thread.

 

[freddy]

Same rifle.

740 bucks featureless.

New York Legal AR15 SALE

750 bucks. Fully featured.

Windham Weaponry SRC AR-15 5.56 NATO Semi Auto Rifle, 16" Barrel 30 Rounds - R16M4FTT - 84803700002

Different sources. Not apples to apples.

 

[freddy]

Those aren't 10/30 magazines. Those are standard capacity magazines with rivets that can readily be restored according to the law but that's another thread.

The attorneys of major manufacturers and dealers disagree with your interpretation of the statute. The riveted 10/30 mags are sold throughout the state.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Different sources. Not apples to apples.

That's what you do when you shop. You check different sources. Come on dude. The point is, you will not see the price unless you build it. If you are building it, chances are you are getting high end parts and an extra few dollars isn't going to make a difference.

 

[Marine Cpl]

The attorneys of major manufacturers and dealers disagree with your interpretation of the statute. The riveted 10/30 mags are sold throughout the state.

Let's not get into attorneys. They don't make or interpret law. That's another thread.

Most 10/30's can only hold 10 even if you take the magazine apart.

 

[freddy]

... the AR15 has a closed action. You will need to drop the magazine from time to time for remedial action. How can you hope to fix a bolt override with a fixed mag for example?

Easy. Set screw on mag release.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Most 10/30 factory mags can not be converted.

"Local" conversions, maybe.

My conversions can not be converted without destroying the mag. But i do not really do 10/30 conversions. I buy em already converted. Easier and cheaper.

 

[freddy]

That's what you do when you shop. You check different sources. Come on dude. The point is, you will not see the price unless you build it. If you are building it, chances are you are getting high end parts and an extra few dollars isn't going to make a difference.

Niche products (NY featureless AR rifles) cost more because economy of scale does not get to work like it does for the rest of the country.

 

[freddy]

Let's not get into attorneys. They don't make or interpret law. That's another thread.

Most 10/30's can only hold 10 even if you take the magazine apart.

The Lancer L5 AWM 10/30, for example, does work just fine.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Niche products (NY featureless AR rifles) cost more because economy of scale does not get to work like it does for the rest of the country.

I just showed one example that it didn't. Regardless, if buying complete, they will be around the same price give or take a few bucks in either direction.

Most of us aren't poor. We buy multiple AR's and other crap we don't really need but want. Your argument is for the poor guy scraping up a few bucks. He can get a cheap one just like the one I linked.

Price isn't the issue. The issue is the ability to change magazines, lay down fire in a defensive situation at one's home or practice at NY ranges changing magazines. You don't get that with a fixed magazine. You can't. It's impossible unless you unfix the magazine in a free state which can also be done with a featureless when the stock is changed to a standard grip and a collapsible stock is just slid on to the buffer tube.

 

[freddy]

I just showed one example that it didn't. Regardless, if buying complete, they will be around the same price give or take a few bucks in either direction.

Most of us aren't poor. We buy multiple AR's and other crap we don't really need but want. Your argument is for the poor guy scraping up a few bucks. He can get a cheap one just like the one I linked.

Price isn't the issue. The issue is the ability to change magazines, lay down fire in a defensive situation at one's home or practice at NY ranges changing magazines. You don't get that with a fixed magazine. You can't. It's impossible unless you unfix the magazine in a free state which can also be done with a featureless when the stock is changed to a standard grip and a collapsible stock is just slid on to the buffer tube.

Again, my opinion is that if you want to be able to revert to the proper full-functioning system (shoot in a free state, or, SHTF) then a fixed mag AR with 10/30 mags is the fastest-to-convert and least expensive way to go.

 

[Podmonkey]

Again, my opinion is that if you want to be able to revert to the proper full-functioning system (shoot in a free state, or, SHTF) then a fixed mag AR with 10/30 mags is the fastest-to-convert and least expensive way to go.

So you are tolerating a toy in the off chance you end up moving?

 

[Marine Cpl]

Again, my opinion is that if you want to be able to revert to the proper full-functioning system (shoot in a free state, or, SHTF) then a fixed mag AR with 10/30 mags is the fastest-to-convert and least expensive way to go.

So not having a muzzle brake or compensator is not having a full functioning rifle?

Taking apart your magazine catch on your lower is faster than removing a grip screw, pulling off the stock, putting a standard grip back on, screwing it in, and sliding a collapsible stock on the buffer tube?

 

[Marine Cpl]

Boy. We really derailed this thread huh?

 

[Podmonkey]

Boy. We really derailed this thread huh?

yeth.

 

[Marine Cpl]

yeth.

It's fun. I'm always up for friendly bantering. Let's talk about hollow points next.

 

[Podmonkey]

It's fun. I'm always up for friendly bantering. Let's talk about hollow points next.

My little brother was the bass player in a band called Hollow Point. They were really good.

 

[Uzi]

Sure, there are 10 round magazines where you can jam a few extra rounds into them if you really try. It's not uncommon. It doesn't make it an 11 or 12 round magazine, it just means it's not functioning properly IMO.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Sure, there are 10 round magazines where you can jam a few extra rounds into them if you really try. It's not uncommon. It doesn't make it an 11 or 12 round magazine, it just means it's not functioning properly IMO.

My SKS that I sold used to do that.

 

[Okmaman]

i wish I could shove 12 instead of only 11.

 

[Uzi]

If another ban happens I'll be needing the full 30.

As for Fixed vs Featureless........ I agree with @Willjr75, the AR15 has a closed action. You will need to drop the magazine from time to time for remedial action. How can you hope to fix a bolt override with a fixed mag for example?
Bottom line is however goofy looking a featureless rilfe looks, its still a practical arm. A fixed magazine AR is a toy.
And in the space a 10/30 mag takes up in a pouch you could stuff two 10 rounders and double your loadout for the same amount of space.


God am I glad I moved outta NYS!

If you have jams or double feeds, depending on what magazine you use, you simply depress the floor plate and slide down the follower just enough and the rounds will drop right out. Pretty.... no VERY simple. Can't say I've ever needed to clear any jam or malfunction on my pistol build, but when I was breaking in my rifle build under constant double taps and rapid fire (all it needed was more lube) I was doing that over and over again, double feed after double feed. Ask me if It was difficult and time consuming? Literally the same way you'd clear a stuck bolt with the butt of the rifle pointed down and with one hand on the charging handle, and the other tending to the fore grip, magazine well, or whatever, in this case the follower. Not a big deal.

If you're thinking that taking a featureless rifle out in real life battle and defensive shooting situations because you can load low capacity magazines faster is SO much better over stripper clips, with increased recoil and muzzle blast, no way to hide a flash during nighttime conditions, and a hunting stock that doesn't allow a proper grip on that platform, and especially outside of shouldering in confined close quarters where you DO use the mag well as a secondary hold, then it's time to revise your application too.

The idea of having everything ready to go when it's needed with the quick addition of a button and spring to take a complaint rifle into a battle rifle, is more appealing to many of us. They're both complaint toys here in NY, it's your option to choose what you'd rather have for a time when things go south or you don't want to have to try and sell useless compliant parts when relocating. My question is, why the fuck would you choose to use a compliant ar-15 for self defense anyways? Do you think if things go south anyone is going to be concerned about how legal their firearms are at that point they actually need to use them?

 

[Podmonkey]

If you have jams or double feeds, depending on what magazine you use, you simply depress the floor plate and slide down the follower just enough and the rounds will drop right out. Pretty.... no VERY simple. Can't say I've ever needed to clear any jam or malfunction on my pistol build, but when I was breaking in my rifle build under constant double taps and rapid fire (all it needed was more lube) I was doing that over and over again, double feed after double feed. Ask me if It was difficult and time consuming? Literally the same way you'd clear a stuck bolt with the butt of the rifle pointed down and with one hand on the charging handle, and the other tending to the fore grip, magazine well, or whatever, in this case the follower. Not a big deal.

If you're thinking that taking a featureless rifle out in real life battle and defensive shooting situations because you can load low capacity magazines faster is SO much better over stripper clips, with increased recoil and muzzle blast, no way to hide a flash during nighttime conditions, and a hunting stock that doesn't allow a proper grip on that platform, and especially outside of shouldering in confined close quarters where you DO use the mag well as a secondary hold, then it's time to revise your application too.

The idea of having everything ready to go when it's needed with the quick addition of a button and spring to take a complaint rifle into a battle rifle, is more appealing to many of us. They're both complaint toys here in NY, it's your option to choose what you'd rather have for a time when things go south or you don't want to have to try and sell useless compliant parts when relocating. My question is, why the fuck would you choose to use a compliant ar-15 for self defense anyways? Do you think if things go south anyone is going to be concerned about how legal their firearms are at that point they actually need to use them?

I think the detachable mag trumps all other features. As for choice, I chose the third option, the one of leaving.

 

[Marine Cpl]

If you have jams or double feeds, depending on what magazine you use, you simply depress the floor plate and slide down the follower just enough and the rounds will drop right out. Pretty.... no VERY simple. Can't say I've ever needed to clear any jam or malfunction on my pistol build, but when I was breaking in my rifle build under constant double taps and rapid fire (all it needed was more lube) I was doing that over and over again, double feed after double feed. Ask me if It was difficult and time consuming? Literally the same way you'd clear a stuck bolt with the butt of the rifle pointed down and with one hand on the charging handle, and the other tending to the fore grip, magazine well, or whatever, in this case the follower. Not a big deal.

If you're thinking that taking a featureless rifle out in real life battle and defensive shooting situations because you can load low capacity magazines faster is SO much better over stripper clips, with increased recoil and muzzle blast, no way to hide a flash during nighttime conditions, and a hunting stock that doesn't allow a proper grip on that platform, and especially outside of shouldering in confined close quarters where you DO use the mag well as a secondary hold, then it's time to revise your application too.

The idea of having everything ready to go when it's needed with the quick addition of a button and spring to take a complaint rifle into a battle rifle, is more appealing to many of us. They're both complaint toys here in NY, it's your option to choose what you'd rather have for a time when things go south or you don't want to have to try and sell useless compliant parts when relocating. My question is, why the fuck would you choose to use a compliant ar-15 for self defense anyways? Do you think if things go south anyone is going to be concerned about how legal their firearms are at that point they actually need to use them?

You cannot clear double feeds if the double feed is wedged on top of the feed lips. You haven't had a malfunction yet. All it takes is one out of spec case, piece of debris, ECT and your toy is out of service.

A flash suppressor doesn't eliminate flash or recoil. It barely reduces it and does nothing for recoil. A muzzle brake barely reduces recoil and does nothing for flash. We are talking about a .223 , 6.8 or similar here and not a 30.06 in regards to recoil which didn't hinder our fighting men of past. It's a stupid argument. Dollars to donuts says that if they changed the law to say you can have any feature you want except a muzzle device, that is what you would change it to instead of fixing the magazine.

It's laughable that you would rather have a collapsible stock for CQB with stripper clips where you cannot fix malfunctions. No trained man would ever prefer that. We are talking about a matter of inches here with the fixed stock.

Why would you use a compliant AR for defense? How about if your family members don't have pistol permits? How about if riots break out or looting after a hurricane and you are standing guard on your land? Not all SHTF scenarios mean there is total lawlessness without police.

 

[Uzi]

I think the detachable mag trumps all other features. As for choice, I chose the third option, the one of leaving.

I can understand leaving 100%, but to an extension of NYS all for not getting slapped for a scary rifle out in the open, not so much. Like I said, In the instance where it's needed, I don't think it'll matter much to many. The idea of it for me and others, is so you can reverse to a detachable mag when desired, so I'm not even sure why you'd want to use a hunting stock and not have any muzzle device on an AR-15 variant. A whole other spectrum of guns and magazines exist outside of ar's; They too can be altered when desired/needed.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I can understand leaving 100%, but to an extension of NYS all for not getting slapped for a scary rifle out in the open, not so much. Like I said, In the instance where it's needed, I don't think it'll matter much to many. The idea of it for me and others, is so you can reverse to a detachable mag when desired, so I'm not even sure why you'd want to use a hunting stock and not have any muzzle device on an AR-15 variant. A whole other spectrum of guns and magazines exist outside of ar's; They too can be altered when desired/needed.

When will it be desired? When the SHTF? Lol. Keep waiting.

Why would I want to have an AR variant?

Weight and accuracy.

 

[Podmonkey]

On a side note, what specifically bans 10 round .458 Socom (or similar) mags in NYS?

 

[Uzi]

You cannot clear double feeds if the double feed is wedged on top of the feed lips. You haven't had a malfunction yet. All it takes is one out of spec case, piece of debris, ECT and your toy is out of service.

A flash suppressor doesn't eliminate flash or recoil. It barely reduces it and does nothing for recoil. A muzzle brake barely reduces recoil and does nothing for flash. We are talking about a .223 , 6.8 or similar here and not a 30.06 in regards to recoil which didn't hinder our fighting men of past. It's a stupid argument. Dollars to donuts says that if they changed the law to say you can have any feature you want except a muzzle device, that is what you would change it to instead of fixing the magazine.

It's laughable that you would rather have a collapsible stock for CQB with stripper clips where you cannot fix malfunctions. No trained man would ever prefer that. We are talking about a matter of inches here with the fixed stock.

Why would you use a compliant AR for defense? How about if your family members don't have pistol permits? How about if riots break out or looting after a hurricane and you are standing guard on your land? Not all SHTF scenarios mean there is total lawlessness without police.

HAHA! here we go again.... I wouldn't be using the fixed mag rifle in a firefight? It's a toy, If I wanted to go into a some fantasy call of duty battle, I'd put the spring in and use the detachable magazines again, or just use my detachable magazine AR that I already have that has all the features. Stop comparing what compliant rifle you think is better, they both suck and would be retarded to use in that fashion. I never stated specifics on what a specific muzzle device does and doesn't do. They exist for a reason however, and aid in reducing recoil, muzzle flash, and muzzle lift depending on what type you use. You constantly seem to answer to your own statements out of context, you do it all the time and it makes no sense. I specifically stated it's a toy and that I wouldn't use it like that in its configuration. My comparison of the two compliant options was to show that a featureless rifle used in combat would also really suck, and you defend its configuration for practical use. So you're telling me, if a round gets stuck inside the feed lips on my fixed rifle, I cannot clear that jam? Next time I go back in time, I'll tell myself that I wasn't supposed to be able to do that, thanks.

 

[Uzi]

When will it be desired? When the SHTF? Lol. Keep waiting.

Why would I want to have an AR variant?

Weight and accuracy.

I hope I have to keep waiting, but at least I'll have another proper rifle in a proper configuration during that time.

Weight? yeah that "pistol grip" you're using is very lightweight I bet. Very ergonomic too, I'm sure your follow up shots are high up on accuracy with that precision compliant barrel.

 

[Podmonkey]

.......that precision complaint barrel.

Oh, that's inreresting. Is this some kind of AR modification that hurls invectives instead of bullets? I want one!! Very useful for traffic jams.