the collector 1
.177 BB
From what I was told, its not a pistol, its not a rifle, its listed as "other" its still legal, so far.
14 inch barrel = legal?
- Thread starter freddy
- Start date
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I agree assuming they don't revert to the ATF definition since this isn't anything according to NY law.
Can they revert to the ATF definition? I don't know. I've searched online for that and cannot come up with a definitive answer.
If they can it's a firearm as per the ATF definition and since it's a firearm, it'll be subject to Penal Law 265. If they cannot revert to the ATF definition, then it's no different than a hammer, trash can, or Nerf Squirt toy.
Eddie Gunks
.338 Win Mag
Mike1Juliet
9mm
No this is not true. The definitions of a firearm under the NFA are very different from the definition of a firearm under NYS penal code 265. A firearm under nys law is defined as basically "any pistol, rifle or shotgun..." it has absolutely no provisions for what the Shockwave is which is an "other" type of firearm. Just because the nfa calls this weapon a firearm does not mean it's magically synonymous with a nys firearm. This is why the Shockwave is legal in New York because it doesn't fall under the definition of a shotgun in nys and doesn't fall under any definition other than "other" with the nfa.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
You missed the point. Isn't that what I just said?
Mike1Juliet
9mm
Well when you said if they revert to some ATF definition it'd still be a firearm as defined with the nfa it made it out like the Shockwave wasn't a firearm, it is a firearm just not one that falls into a pistol, rifle or shotgun definition.
Basically the Shockwave is legal because it complies with the nfa and nys penal code. Not because it goes by either or definition between nfa and nys.
Or I screwed up because I didn't follow your quote chain with the guy you were originally quoting
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
And then I said if they cannot revert Tuesday the ATF definition which nobody really knows of they can or not it would be just like a nerf toy with no NY regulation.
Mike1Juliet
9mm
If that's the case I don't think nys can legally ring the bell then unring it when it doesn't suit them. You can't just pick and choose what definitions you want to use.
I like this Shockwave but I really wanna find out if the police can write off on an ar15 type "other" firearm
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
The police cannot legally write off anything. They can give an opinion and a DA can still prosecute you according to their interpretation of the penal law. Then it's up to the jury.
Police opinions are worthless unless they make them hold weight if the penal law is rewritten and gives them the power to do so.
Police opinions are worthless unless they make them hold weight if the penal law is rewritten and gives them the power to do so.
Eddie Gunks
.338 Win Mag
It is the same. They should. But i know ther probably can not do that.
That does not mean the same defense wont work. It actually will. All you need to do is show it is teh same as a shockwave and they will have to apply it to the ar.
freddy
.308 Win
If the police statement is accepted as evidence it will influence the outcome.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
The jury can only vote based on the Penal law.
freddy
.308 Win
I'll wager that evidence presented to the jury, especially that evidence, will influence the outcome.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Have you ever served in a jury? When I did I was instructed that we can only go via the penal law. Both sides can plead their case but in the end you gather that evidence and treat the penal law over and over and over.
freddy
.308 Win
No jury for me, but I suspect if they saw on NYSP letterhead "THAT GUN IS LEGAL" (or thereabouts) they would acquit. Assuming a nonviolent arrest and no others factors to incite revenge from the jury of course.
Eddie Gunks
.338 Win Mag
Police can not testify for you. They can only be used against you.
freddy
.308 Win
A written statement on letterhead clearly supporting the acceptance of a given configuration could not hurt, and might help.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
They can't testify for you, but written statements made by them prior to your case can be entered into evidence.
In the very least you could use it to claim that the law was ambiguous and therefore invalid "If my client is guilty, even the cops don't know what this law means"....
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
That is the only thing you could do with that letter.
Eddie Gunks
.338 Win Mag
I believe there is something that says if a law can not be understood by the masses it is an illegal/unjust law. (Something like that)
I think the safe act fits that bill.
Mike1Juliet
9mm
Yea but this is as erroneous as getting a jury to nullify in the first place, oddly rare and due to the culture of "you can only base judgment on the penal law" do many jurors even know they can readily nullify something?
I would hope that if you got arrested for this, you contact every 2nd amendment lawyer you can because you're in for a wild ride
Also, does the barrel need to be sub 16 inches or can it be any length so long the overall length is greater than 26"?
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Eddie Gunks
.338 Win Mag
It is not a function of barrel length.
It is a function of all of these:
1. No stock
2. Fwd grip
3. Over 26 OAL.