I believe the round responsible was an 80s vintage SLAP (Saboted Light Armor Penetrator) round
It could simply be that less than ideal storage conditions altered the burn characteristics of the powder of that particular cartridge.
50 Cal Explodes
- Thread starter 4WHLDRFTN
- Start date
It could simply be that less than ideal storage conditions altered the burn characteristics of the powder of that particular cartridge.
I said nothing of the Serbu being the cause.I'll wager the 100s of thousands of experiments showing that rifle model is safe is more convincing than the one experiment showing that the tumbling is OK.
That's the trick with low probability events. The odds are extremely low on them happening, but they do happen.
Your logic would say "that tumbler experiment shows powder breakdown is not the cause, and the hundreds of thousands (or millions) of rounds fired by Serbu rifles shows the design is sound and that their construction is top notch. The millions of those rounds fired by the miltiary show that they are also safe. So we have to conclude that this didn't actually happen"....
It's also possible for powder to break down just sitting there if it's old enough.
How long did it sit *after* that tumbling experiment ? Maybe that's what happened, it got bounced around for years, then sat on a shelf for a decade.
Characteristics and Manufacture of Spherical Smokeless Powders
ABSTRACT: Smokeless propellants have been studied and manufactured for many decades. They can...www.scielo.br
"To protect the resulting powder against autocatalytic decomposition, one of the usual stabilizers as, for example, the centralities or diphenylamine, may be added to the lacquer so that the desired amount becomes incorporated within the individual particles of lacquer (Olsen 1942). "
To say nothing of the fact that the massive case volume of the .50BMG gives a lot more potential for degradation than the smaller rounds he tested.
You can drop test your product at 6' all day long, that doesn't mean it'll survive a fall from 20'
Swing and a miss.
If you put powder in the water it breaks down too. Does it become more explosive?
I agree the problem is the round.
Nothing changes the fact that when I get a hot round, I'd rather chance it in one that doesn't have a weak point exactly where it failed.
(I've seen crap locking lugs fail there too btw and send a bolt onto a shoulder.)
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Are you not familiar with autocatalytic decomposition of old powder ?I said nothing of the Serbu being the cause.
Swing and a miss.
If you put powder in the water it breaks down too. Does it become more explosive?
It can literally explode just sitting on a shelf.
So, obviously there was a cause.
If it wasn't the Serbu and it wasn't the ammo, then what, divine intervention ?
If it was the ammo, what do you suggest ? Bad factory ammo ? Odds of that seem just as low as powder degradation.
I agree, the powder degradation thing is a long shot. But what you don't seem to get is that there *was* a cause, and *whatever* that cause was was a long shot.
repete
.338 Win Mag
So, I have a few assorted .50BMG rounds of WWII vintage if anyone's interested.
kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
There could have been a partial bore obstruction or restriction, too. Especially considering the variety of oddball vintage ammo he was shooting. Just a little funk - sabot/caseneck/carbon/tracer residue - impeding the bullets travel as the charge lit off might account for a pressure spike.
SmallGameAddict
.308 Win
I can dig that
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
You'll poke your eye out! Thy a red tiger next time.
Robin
Robin
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Factory loaded mil spec? Says who?
MikeyCNY
6.5 Creedmoor
Watched that yesterday... Not a big enough OOF for this one. Like was said, good thing he wasn't alone, though I'm sure his dad was freaking out a little.
Good job eye pro - makes me feel better about spending the big money on prescription safety lenses...
Good job eye pro - makes me feel better about spending the big money on prescription safety lenses...
repete
.338 Win Mag
It's been decades now but I seem to remember a .50BMG high pressure test round. just my .02
spat
.700 Nitro Express
In the video he said it's collectable SLAP round that cost about $100/rnd.
Not something someone loaded up themselves with some sabots from ebay and a 30 cal AP, but an actual M903 SLAP round.
I understand that's what he was told it was.
Right, who knows what that round really was?
that said, old surplus ammo behaving in wonky ways is not something so unbelievable either.
I'd be willing to bet that it was genuine surplus bit disposed of in the first place due to sub optimal storage conditions compromised the lot and some reseller gets ahold of it. As Ian points out in tge video of my previous post, KB did note an abnormally large muzzle blast at least once prior.
My point being that even American surplus ammo can be defective. We'll likely never know anyhow what really was the issue.
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meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Darth,I said nothing of the Serbu being the cause.
Swing and a miss.
If you put powder in the water it breaks down too. Does it become more explosive?
I was thinking about what I told you that most barreled actions are threaded anyway but I see now your point on the action because in fact they are also designed to fail in a specific way and redirect the kaboom downwards and away from the shooters head and vital areas.
I think the initial assessment from serbu should be revisited since this could be a case for some improvements:
1-I don't know the threads in this case bit we could calculate if what they said is reasonable and we have too keep in mind that 80kpsi does not mean shit w/o also considering thrust force at the breach head for this round that is huge vs even a supermagnum.
2- I can see increasing the size of that tenon, the depth and size of the threads will give a huge boost in strength. Tenons in barreled actions are also longer even if they are the same threads that adds to the strength.
3-the most important is what to put in place in case of failure. This is where a simple tube action can be a life saver because it can contain all the parts or redirect them downwards incase of a massive failure.
In other words, we already have something that is 20-25lbs so adding 5 or 6 extra pounds of a proper block for the action is not going to impact anything other than strength and safety.
They could easily made a threaded breach lock and then keep a bolt and block ahead of the buffer tube all inside the tube action and keep it budget still.
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
Bad rounds happen!
I have had two guns detonate on me in my 50 years of shooting. First a sig 239 with my dads hand load (may have been out of battery) and a Glock 23 with winchester white box ammo.
Plastic chunks cut and superficially embedded themselves into my hand. and nicks in my brand new safety glasses.
I have had two guns detonate on me in my 50 years of shooting. First a sig 239 with my dads hand load (may have been out of battery) and a Glock 23 with winchester white box ammo.
Plastic chunks cut and superficially embedded themselves into my hand. and nicks in my brand new safety glasses.
kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
So he shot a sabot round prior to the detonation, that didnt punch thur the hydrant (everything else did) so it may have been under powered and he said it had more recoil.Hmmm... Some guy guessed partial barrel obstruction back in post #36.
my question is
could the prior sabot round have left all or some of the sabot in the gun?
kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
I was guessing that there was some kind of buildup in the barrel -either powder fouling, a piece of stuck case neck, residue from the sabots similar to leading, or something else that caused the pressure to increase. The guy in the video thinks it could be a buildup at the muzzle break.
I'm interested to see what the manufacturer finds. I'm sure he'll be doing cut-a ways of the barrel.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
The guy makes sense.
The problem was absolutely the ammo, but that said, if I had to fire that round, I'd much rather put that in an M99.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Yes. I am not impressed how that gun manged the failure. The designer gives 0nfucks to protect the shooter.
Any aftermarket single shot tube gun should be safer.
The other one I saw was a bolt made of inferior materials shearing off the lugs on a bolt action AR. 50 upper.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
The Serbu BFG-50 is very well built and would handle this sort of failure quite well.
The RN-50 was designed to be as cheap as possible and necessarily compromised robustness to do it. All the "shell holder" designs are a major compromise in that regard.
If you want an excellent single shot 50, get a BFG-50 if you want the cheapest thing you can get that doesn't completely suck, get the RN-50.
Can't fault him for offering people options.
As for the "get a Barrett" comments. People who can afford a Barrett are not generally buying an RN50, and people who buy an RN50 usually can't afford a Barrett. So, that advice just translates to "you're too poor to own a 50" for most of them.