7 cops respond to man legally carrying, berate citizen with lecture.

[Airborneguy]

In some ways I agree that corporate laws should change. Corporations enjoy the protection of our government systems. I have always believed that corporate taxes should be very high for this reason.

For example, corporations benefit far more from our public roads (transporting their goods) than the average citizen. The tax code should reflect that.

But when it comes to property rights, I have to side with corporations here. Any building Walmart owns is under their control and therefore they get to decide what is allowed and what isn’t, no different than your home.

 

[BDinPutnam]

Exactly, @Airborneguy (maybe not on the taxes thing though )

 

[Podmonkey]

My view is that corporations are large bureaucratic organizations and not at all like a private individual. I think corporations should be bound to the same civil liberty obligations as any government organization would. The Founding Fathers set precedent on this when the illustrated a division in corporate vs individual status when they specifically declared provisions for corporate income taxation while specifically stating that taxation on individual income was unconstitutional.
Corporations must be made to submit to the individual. To my mind small businesses fall into the same category as individuals. A company like Walmart does not.

 

[Marine Cpl]

My view is that corporations are large bureaucratic organizations and not at all like a private individual. I think corporations should be bound to the same civil liberty obligations as any government organization would. The Founding Fathers set precedent on this when the illustrated a division in corporate vs individual status when they specifically declared provisions for corporate income taxation while specifically stating that taxation on individual income was unconstitutional.
Corporations must be made to submit to the individual. To my mind small businesses fall into the same category as individuals. A company like Walmart does not.

There are lots of things that I do not agree with in the constitution but it is what it is and at the end of the day, it’s a private business.

 

[Podmonkey]

There are lots of things that I do not agree with in the constitution but it is what it is and at the end of the day, it’s a private business.

It's not private, how can an extranational massive organization with hundreds of thousands of members be private?
Corporations directly lobby our elected representatives for legislation that is often not in our best interests and even regardless of that they are still tightly entwined with the legislation. Furthermore many of these companies,including Walmart and especially social media outlets, have outsize influence on public life to the point of some having monopolistic control of their markets. These characteristics are not descriptive of a private entity in the sense of you or I are as individuals.
Corporations are a necessary engine of economic output but as powerful, influential and amoral entities checks and balances must be placed on them as they are (supposedly) for government.

 

[Darth]

It's not private, how can an extranational massive organization with hundreds of thousands of members be private?
Corporations directly lobby our elected representatives for legislation that is often not in our best interests and even regardless of that they are still tightly entwined with the legislation. Furthermore many of these companies,including Walmart and especially social media outlets, have outsize influence on public life to the point of some having monopolistic control of their markets. These characteristics are not descriptive of a private entity in the sense of you or I are as individuals.
Corporations are a necessary engine of economic output but as powerful, influential and amoral entities checks and balances must be placed on them as they are (supposedly) for government.

Ah, you and Senator Sanders both need to brush up on economics 101. No biggie.

When you get to the chapter about how the stock market works, read it, then tell me again how corporations are not private entities.

 

[BDinPutnam]

Always amazes me when the contemporary so-called anti-left delineates their wish list and... it looks remarkably like the left.

Kind of like the lack of airspace between Trump and Sanders with respect to what the ideal level of legal immigration to this country should be.

 

[Podmonkey]

Ah, you and Senator Sanders both need to brush up on economics 101. No biggie.

When you get to the chapter about how the stock market works, read it, then tell me again how corporations are not private entities.

I don't give a fuck about stock markets Darth. Some of these companies are using their influence to abrogate the constitution and that is unacceptable. You would prostitute your liberty for the benefit of a large corporation that does not have your interests in mind. I find that rather pathetic, such a one we call a whore.
You are a fool if you conflate my views with a communist like sanders, I am far from a communist, I abhor collectivism. I am a staunch individualist, I call for self sufficiency and independence from federal and corporate bondage. My views are more aligned with Theodore Roosevelt's policies.

 

[Podmonkey]

Always amazes me when the contemporary so-called anti-left delineates their wish list and... it looks remarkably like the left.

Kind of like the lack of airspace between Trump and Sanders with respect to what the ideal level of legal immigration to this country should be.

What is the left calling for right now? They are demanding corporate censorship and government intervention. They are fervently trying to silence all discussion and debate and are strongly authoritarian in their goals and methods.

 

[GoodGuywitha9mm]

The right to bear arms is enshrined in the constitution, which makes such a civil rights issue. We need to work towards making gun owners a "protected class" with all the protections the law gives other so called "protected classes". This guy should file a discrimination lawsuit.

A "Gun Union"...

 

[BDinPutnam]

You sound an awful lot like an anarchist, not a libertarian.

 

[Darth]

I don't give a fuck about stock markets Darth. Some of these companies are using their influence to abrogate the constitution and that is unacceptable. You would prostitute your liberty for the benefit of a large corporation that does not have your interests in mind. I find that rather pathetic, such a one we call a whore.
You are a fool if you conflate my views with a communist like sanders, I am far from a communist, I abhor collectivism. I am a staunch individualist, I call for self sufficiency and independence from federal and corporate bondage. My views are more aligned with Theodore Roosevelt's policies.

Lol, you are literally asking the rights of private businesses to be stripped away because you personally don’t agree with them, and you are saying I am giving up liberties.

Clearly you don’t care about the stock market because you have no concept of how businesses work.

I do like the talks of whores and bondage though. That I do agree with.

 

[Podmonkey]

Lol, you are literally asking the rights of private businesses to be stripped away because you personally don’t agree with them, and you are saying I am giving up liberties.

Clearly you don’t care about the stock market because you have no concept of how businesses work.

I do like the talks of whores and bondage though. That I do agree with.

Large corporations are not private entities. They operate like governments within governments, they wield vast political power and will run roughshod over private citizens if it suits their ends. Corporations are not private citizens. Where there is conflict between the citizen and the corporate the corporate interest must be brought to heal. You cannot have a true free market and the balance that brings with megacorps stomping out all competition. Centralized power and authority is to be avoided at all costs and the individual's civil liberties are more important than corporate desires.
Now if we actually had a true free market in this country citizens could mold corporate behavior with their wallets but we don't have that. There is not enough competition to the largest companies for this to work. You don't want government intervention? Fine, then let's have partisan action on corporate HQ in Benton AK, I'm fine with that.

 

[Podmonkey]

You sound an awful lot like an anarchist, not a libertarian.

I have views that borrow from multiple avenues so I can't really nail down exactly where I am on the sociopolitical compass. Mostly I'd say I am center right but I certainly do have strong anarchistic leanings. However some interpretations of anarchism give it a leftward slant which I most definitely trend sharply away from. I am strongly individualistic and I would be perfectly comfortable with extreme measures to preserve individual liberty.
I suppose the problem I have in this debate is that I have conflicts in my personal tendencies.
On the old D&D scale I'd be more of a chaotic neutral. I don't like being told what to do. At all. In fact nothing makes me angrier. It caused me some problems in my military service, though I managed to keep out of the worst trouble.

 

[Darth]

Large corporations are not private entities. They operate like governments within governments, they wield vast political power and will run roughshod over private citizens if it suits their ends. Corporations are not private citizens. Where there is conflict between the citizen and the corporate the corporate interest must be brought to heal. You cannot have a true free market and the balance that brings with megacorps stomping out all competition. Centralized power and authority is to be avoided at all costs and the individual's civil liberties are more important than corporate desires.
Now if we actually had a true free market in this country citizens could mold corporate behavior with their wallets but we don't have that. There is not enough competition to the largest companies for this to work. You don't want government intervention? Fine, then let's have partisan action on corporate HQ in Benton AK, I'm fine with that.

If I own a business or 1000 people own part of a business it’s still a private business. No matter how much you dislike their policies. They don’t just suddenly lose their rights to their own property because they get big.

 

[Marine Cpl]

It pretty much boils down to this. Walmart cannot pass any laws. Walmart cannot levy taxes. Walmart cannot make treaties with other governments. Walmart cannot raise an army. They are not the government.

 

[fresch]

Just on line order and free delivery.

 

[Podmonkey]

If I own a business or 1000 people own part of a business it’s still a private business. No matter how much you dislike their policies. They don’t just suddenly lose their rights to their own property because they get big.

Well Dath like I said before, it boils down to me not like being told what to do. Ultimately I want to be able to do whatever I damn well please, whenever I damn well please and fuck you if you say otherwise. Especially if what I want to do is legal under the law. Fuck your corporate policy, Walmart can shove it up their Chinese shit peddling ass. Sideways. With no lube.

 

[Podmonkey]

Just on line order and free delivery.

To be honest I pretty much do that and I avoid the trouble.

 

[Podmonkey]

It pretty much boils down to this. Walmart cannot pass any laws. Walmart cannot levy taxes. Walmart cannot make treaties with other governments. Walmart cannot raise an army. They are not the government.

Walmart can still go fuck itself.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Walmart can still go fuck itself.

That’s fine. I don’t like them either. But I’m not going to say that they are a government instead of a private business.

 

[Podmonkey]

That’s fine. I don’t like them either. But I’m not going to say that they are a government instead of a private business.

What they did to that man was grossly wrong and they should be punished for it.

 

[Marine Cpl]

What they did to that man was grossly wrong and they should be punished for it.

Did to what man? The one who decided to open carry in their store after being asked not to?

 

[ECU Pirates]

Let's see if the lawsuit changes their mind.

For?

 

[BDinPutnam]

I want to do whatever I want to do whenever and wherever is not a basis for a stable society.

Particularly when, as here, the "whatever you want to do" infringes on the rights (in this case, property rights) of others.

 

[Podmonkey]

Did to what man? The one who decided to open carry in their store after being asked not to?

They could have simply asked him to leave.
But mainly, frankly this is a war. Either they are for or against us, those against must suffer.

 

[ECU Pirates]

What they did to that man was grossly wrong and they should be punished for it.

If you ask someone to not open carry on your property should you he punished? Walmart is a publicity traded family owned corporation. This was not public property. They can make their own rules.

 

[Marine Cpl]

They could have simply asked him to leave.
But mainly, frankly this is a war. Either they are for or against us, those against must suffer.

Pod. If I had a business and said that the open carrying of hand guns was fine but I did not want people open carrying rifles with body armor on inside so that my customers don’t freak out and run out costing me money and headaches and some idiot decided to go against my wishes, I would ban him too.

 

[Podmonkey]

I want to do whatever I want to do whenever and wherever is not a basis for a stable society.

Particularly when, as here, the "whatever you want to do" infringes on the rights (in this case, property rights) of others.

Too much stability leads to stagnation and rot.
The western world is rotting apart. Time to reforge in chaos.

 

[Podmonkey]

Pod. If I had a business and said that the open carrying of hand guns was fine but I did not want people open carrying rifles with body armor on inside so that my customers don’t freak out and some idiot decided to go against my wishes, I would ban him too.

Alright fine, you all win. But I am tired of losing ground every day and I am just not interested in being agreeable and bending the knee anymore.
Just drop the fucking gauntlets already.