7mm-08 for hunting and long range precission shooting

[meketrefe]

This is a parts list someone posted in another forum for a 4.5lbs 308 AR.
I think the 16" barrel in 308 is a mistake and a 18 or 19 inches will not add much weight.
Also it doesn't have to be so light to be light.

Upper Parts:
2A Armament Xanthos Upper receiver 7075 T6 @ 9.00 ounces
X-Caliber 416R 16 inch fluted barrel @ 31.3 ounces
2A titanium gas block @ 0.60 ounces
Gas tube mid length @ 0.80 ounces
titanium muzzle brake @ 0.65 ounces
Clark Custom Aluminum barrel nut @ 1.18 ounces
AR 308 carbon fiber hand guard 1.60 ounces in mid length 10.5 inches
Toolcraft Titanium 308 BCG @ 11.80 ounces with ti firing pin
Vltor charging handle @ 1.25 ounces



Lower Parts: Total weight 18.60 ounces with SSA-E trigger

2A Armament Xanthos lower @ 7.30 ounces
Mag Pul K grip @ 1.7 ounces
V7 titanium grip screw 0.113 ounces
V7 Mag catch aluminum 0.173 ounces
V7 Aluminum/titanium selector 90 degree 0.293 ounces
V7 aluminum AR 308 takedown pins 0.26 ounces
V7 tool steel bolt catch 0.31 ounces
Smoke Composite stock 3.3 oz.
AR308 carbine buffer (no weights) 0.85 oz.
NF polymer trigger group 0.65 oz with titanium trigger pins
SSA-E trigger group 2.6 ounces with titanium trigger pins
DPMS carbine buffer spring @ 1.5 ounces
Titanium buffer retainer, mag catch plunger

 

[dsdmmat]

I was being sarcastic about the 8mm.

Noreen makes a receiver set you could use.

 

[Robin]

Hmmmmm, thanks dsdmmat, now on to the barrel.
Robin

 

[meketrefe]

168gr Berger are the best.

 

[Snappo]

Post Deleted.

 

[meketrefe]

I tested a CMMG 2 stage today with brass bushings. very good quality for the money.

 

[SteyrAug]

Interesting thread, BUT since the 6.5 Creedmore is cleaning house in target matches, why a 7mm08 ? Several years ago I had a DPMS heavy bbl upper in 260 Rem (6.5) that shot sub moa out to 600 (as far as I tested it). The 6.5s also stay supersonic longer than any .284 or .308 bullet in a 308 case.

 

[meketrefe]

Interesting thread, BUT since the 6.5 Creedmore is cleaning house in target matches, why a 7mm08 ? Several years ago I had a DPMS heavy bbl upper in 260 Rem (6.5) that shot sub moa out to 600 (as far as I tested it). The 6.5s also stay supersonic longer than any .284 or .308 bullet in a 308 case.

What matches? In 100 yards and 200 yards score compensation the 6mmBR and PPC continue to win big.
In Europe the 6.5x47 lapua wins big too.
Also not everything is about target matches. There is hunting too.
Also are the matches representative of real life or they are accomodating to shoot more confortable cartriges?
The 6.5 calibers like the 260, 6.5x47 and Creedomore are nice cartriges and some have huge marketing dollars
behind that is another reason you see more ammo, rifles and sales assortments.
There is no marketing behind the 7mm-08 with Remington that as we know mess things up pretty badly on average and marketing wise.
So what is first the cartrige or the rifle or perhaps should they come together?
Ballistically the 7mm-08 is superior to any of the popular 6.5 in every single way. But one needs to work it out because right now
it is being marketed as a white tail round although it can do a lot more.
I understand there are fashions and that is all cool but they come and go too.
The benefits of the 7mm are quite clear as explained earlier in the thread.

 

[SteyrAug]

Wrong the 7mm08 falls below supersonic before the 260 rem or Creedmore. The key to long range accuracy is staying supersonic.

"Engineers looked at a few other short-action .264-caliber cartridges and made some changes to the chamber-throat angle and other specifications to accommodate a long-ogive, high-ballistic-coefficient (BC) bullet of that weight. As a result, Hornady was able to extract better long-range performance than is commonly seen from other 6.5 mm short-action cartridges.

This cartridge has become popular in precision rifles, performing better than any other standardized short-action cartridge. The high BC keeps the bullet supersonic out well past 1,000 yards—under the right conditions out as far as 1,300 yards. "

 

[ECU Pirates]

One mans long range is another's midrange. 1000 and 1300 are nice in theory but around here..... I think 600 to 800 is about the best a lucky few will get. As far as I know the 6mm br is winning among the table top crowd.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[meketrefe]

Wrong the 7mm08 falls below supersonic before the 260 rem or Creedmore. The key to long range accuracy is staying supersonic.

"Engineers looked at a few other short-action .264-caliber cartridges and made some changes to the chamber-throat angle and other specifications to accommodate a long-ogive, high-ballistic-coefficient (BC) bullet of that weight. As a result, Hornady was able to extract better long-range performance than is commonly seen from other 6.5 mm short-action cartridges.

This cartridge has become popular in precision rifles, performing better than any other standardized short-action cartridge. The high BC keeps the bullet supersonic out well past 1,000 yards—under the right conditions out as far as 1,300 yards. "

I see you might not be familiar with the 7mm-08 and 7mm bullets.

I shot the 260 for a few years. A good match load is the lapua scenar 139gr and berger 140gr vld that could be propelled to 2700fps avg
from a 24" barrel. These bullets have an amazing G1 coefficient around .6
The 7mm/08 propels a 162gr amax to 2750fps (accuracy loads) so 50fps more than the 6.5 scenars or 140gr bergers and these
have the same ballistic coefficient as the 6.5 but a tad more speed and more momentum so they shoot flater and reach further.
Also the 7mm/08 launches a 168gr berger VLD at the same speeds as the 6.5 launches the 140grain bullets from the same barrel length
but the 168gr bergers have a G1 coefficient of .63 so they not only shoot flatter but they hit with more momentum and they also shoot
flatter and reach further.
It practical matches shooting heavy steel this might be the difference between scoring in a heavy gate or failing to score with a 6mm
or a 6.5mm. Because there are no scoring standards between matches outside military the targets might accommodate for smaller easier
to shoot calibers. There is simply not enough momentum in the 6.5 to tackle difficult heavy targets as it maxes out at 140grs give and take.

A 7mm bullet with better ballistic coefficient launched at the same speed as a 6.5 mm bullet it can only shoot flatter and further.
This is a fact of simple physics and your or my opinion doesn't make a difference.

The 7mm 160 to 175gr bullets are good examples of that. Not only that but they delivers more momentum in the target with transonic
ranges up to 1200 yards and beyond in certain conditions. These bullets shoot from popular short action rifles and magazines w/o the
need of long action rifles or mid-length mausers.

Like the round above loaded with the 168gr Berger VLD and varget or R15 but would also work great wiht the 162gr amax or new ELD but
I have not tested this yet.

Berger bullets
All Bullets | Berger Bullets

hornady bullets...
Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Ammunition :: Rifle :: Choose by Caliber

Laupa scenar bullets...
Lapua components list - Reloading components | Nammo Lapua | Bullets and cases | Rifle, Handgun | Brass | Calibers

There is no "new advantages" of the 6.5 and nothing it has not done before. Only more marketing.
If you want to learn more about the differences between all the 6.5mm cartriges this is a good star.
This is a very nice article published by Zak Smith who has been shooting Practical and tactical matches (and winning many) for over a decade.

6.5mm Shootout: .260 Remington vs. 6.5x47 Lapua vs. 6.5 Creedmoor

 

[Marine Cpl]

 

[SteyrAug]

Ah, I own 2 7X57s, 1 7mm08, 1 7x61 and one 7mm remmeg. I know all about 7mms. You can jiggle the numbers all you want but .284 bullets are not winning PRS matches which demand the most from shooters. What goes subsonic last is what wins.


"There were clearly 4 favorites among the top 100 shooters. These 4 cartridges represent 80% of the shooters who finished in the top 100!

1. 6.5×47 Lapua
2. 6mm Creedmoor
3. 6.5 Creedmoor
4. 6×47 Lapua

 

[meketrefe]

There is no need to jiggle numbers nor getting into boring online arguments.
The best load produced with 7mm-08 will stay supersonic longer than the best load with 6.5mm from a short action rifle.
The PRS matches are sponsored by the brands that have been dumping millions on marketing and they are accommodating for
that style of shooting following the latest fashions.
The 7mm-08 has been marketed and produced rifles included as a "white tail" round. You do not have one single
rifle maker offering a PRS rifle with 1:8 twist so you have to barrel it yourself.
Also you still have F-class, and most importantly, tactical, military and hunters who need bullets to be able to do something at those ranges
that could be reducing an enemy or killing an animal humanely and with authority.
The 6mm and 6.5mm fall short. They are great paper punchers but they simply they do not have the momentum to tackle serious targets.

Putting marketing and fashions aside lets compare these two match winning loads:

260 Remington 140gr Berger Match Hybrid Target

Cor-Bon Performance Match Ammo 7mm-08 Remington 168 Grain VLD Box of

The 7mm-08 shoots a slightly flatter trajectory and stays supersonic further but most importantly it carries the power factor when
engaging heavy targets including larger animals when hunting.
Both from relatively compact PRS rifles with the same barrel length and similar specs.
The 7mm-08 will last twice the accuracy life of the 260 barrel due the case to bore ratio.

Of course the 7mm-08 for long range is something one will have to develop and most likely load for it because there is no marketing
behind pushing for long range use.

 

[GuyMontag]

Steyr, the PRS guys are shooting for SPECIFIC needs tailored to that competition, not sure why you're thinking what's "best" for that discipline transfers across the board.

 

[meketrefe]

7mm x 47 lapua project...

7mm Wildcat Based on 6.5×47 Lapua Case within AccurateShooter.com

Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Bullets :: Rifle :: Choose by Caliber :: .284 7mm :: 7mm .284 180 gr ELD® Match

Details
Item Number 28503
Ballistic Coefficient (G1) .796

Ballistic Coefficient (G7) .401
Sectional Density .319
Quantity 100/Box

Price: $45.00

 

[meketrefe]

Also check the new Hornady bullets. and the TMK!!

 

[Podmonkey]

So there are no issues with the heavy for caliber 7mm loads fitting into the AR10 action?

 

[meketrefe]

So there are no issues with the heavy for caliber 7mm loads fitting into the AR10 action?

Not all of them. 168gr Berger VLD that is a pretty long bullet with a G1 coefficient =.628

They also work great in AIS bolt action and even a converted garand if you want.

Also might want to ask for a specific reamer with the ideal freebore for these loads.

 

[Podmonkey]

140gr is the standard weight for 7mm right? It would seem the heavier 7mm loads are completely superior to .308s.

 

[meketrefe]

140gr is the standard weight for 7mm right? It would seem the heavier 7mm loads are completely superior to .308s.

Yes I think there are more 140gr loads for white tail than anything else.
There are some 150gr too and 120gr for white tail and pigs too.
That is how the round is marketed and rifles too although the caliber can do a lot more.
It is like the 243 that is also marketed as a white tail round but with 105 to 115gr VLD bullets
and 1:8 or 1:7 twist is a very flat shooting round for paper punching / target at long range.
Remington do not know how to market and follow through.

It takes a company like lapua or hornady to put something out and follow up with aggressive
marketing and promotions.
Then people jump into the fashion wagon and rifles and all sorts of commercial ammo starts to pop up
everywhere.

The 7mm-08 beats all other calibers below and above at everything ballistically talking. 243, 260, 6.5 creed, 308 w itself.
It cannot compete with the 358 winchester derived from the 308 because of momentum but that is a total different story.

I think companies like Remington and Winchester fell asleep at the wheel.
I am glad Wolf decided to produce steel cased grendel. Now people can shoot more for plinking
and also get AKs in that round. The round itself is not that great for short barrels but it is a lot
better than the classic garbage like the x39, blackout, 30 carbine, 5.45, etc.. I mean ballistically talking.
Now what we need is for them to start producing the 6.8 in a couple of grains like 90gr fmj and 110gr sp for example.

 

[Podmonkey]

I read an article on those Wolf Grendels.
The accuracy was terrible.
I've always wanted a nice .243 for a fun target/plinker. But anything that aint .223 or 7.62x39 is just too expensive for me.

 

[meketrefe]

I read an article on those Wolf Grendels.
The accuracy was terrible.
I've always wanted a nice .243 for a fun target/plinker. But anything that aint .223 or 7.62x39 is just too expensive for me.

The accuracy is what you expect with budget steel case ammo, defense and for plinking and screwing around.
Nobody is going to win any championships shooting steel ammo.

 

[Podmonkey]

The accuracy is what you expect with budget steel case ammo, defense and for plinking and screwing around.
Nobody is going to win any championships shooting steel ammo.

But it also defeats the whole purpose of the cartridge as well. May as well stick to .223/5.56.

 

[Marine Cpl]

But it also defeats the whole purpose of the cartridge as well. May as well stick to .223/5.56.

It's good for messing around at the range. That's all anyone ever buys steel case for.

 

[Podmonkey]

It's good for messing around at the range. That's all anyone ever buys steel case for.

I'd rather mess around at the range with cheap 2 moa or better capable .223 than fairly cheap 4 moa 6.5 grendal.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I'd rather mess around at the range with cheap 2 moa or better capable .223 than fairly cheap 4 moa 6.5 grendal.

That's you. Not everyone can afford what you can afford. I used to shoot Wolf .223 at an outdoor 50 yard range for fun. I wouldn't do so at 200 yards however. It serves it's purpose.

 

[Podmonkey]

That's you. Not everyone can afford what you can afford. I used to shoot Wolf .223 at an outdoor 50 yard range for fun. I wouldn't do so at 200 yards however. It serves it's purpose.

You can't afford 35 cents a round? Cause that GGG M855 is easily capable of 2 MOA.

 

[Marine Cpl]

You can't afford 35 cents a round? Cause that GGG M855 is easily capable of 2 MOA.

Forget it dude. You are being an asshole now.

 

[Podmonkey]

Forget it dude. You are being an asshole now.

How? Would you like to try some? I'm getting some more.