Accidental Discharge While Cleaning Firearm !

[E the massive]

If a soldier lets one fly into a clearing drum that is a loss of freedom (extra duty) at the least.

 

[FCG LLC]

So, if you train more, the punishment should be worse?

I have had extensive training driving a vehicle, more than most people; if I get in a wreck, should I be punished more than the guy who only has basic drivers training?

I think every case should be looked at dispassionately, looking at the facts as known and make application of the law based on those findings. Don't matter if the victims are kids, blacks, women, alt-genders or if the party under scrutiny is .gov, a corporation, the police, the feds, Hillary.

If you are trained to meet certain standards, and are continually assessed to those standards - EVOC for example, then a determined prosecutor MAY be able to sway a jury that your actions had some element of negligence, because you have a more comprehensive understanding of the what ifs.




Having said that mouthful, I think people who we certify on certain things should certainly be strictly held to the standards. So for example in a wildly hypothetical scenario, if we ever had a high ranking member of government - for example a current of former United States Senator, or a current of former member of the cabinet, or anyone who has ever actively ran for POTUS...if someone like that was ever found to be breaking laws on the dissemination of classified information outside the parameters set by policy and law, then we should review sentences for the previous 22 1/2 years and apply the harshest equivalent sentence within that time span to the party in question.

Fortunately, we have never in our 240 year history had to deal with anything so outlandish or absurd!

 

[Podmonkey]

I'm not so sure about that statement.

1st rebuttal: example, man takes down his pants sitting to use toilet, the gun heavier than the waistband flips(as we know can happen,depending on type of pants) and say it falls out or slams down on floor and the person had one chambered(chambered..that being another argument for another thread) with a cheap gun and bad safety mechanism (as we know happened to the Taurus models that were recalled) gun fires..to me that's an accidental discharge.

2nd rebuttal: unicorns could have existed and genetic mutations over time may be the cause of the sighting of a "unicorn"

3rd rebuttal: dragons may have flew originally but again evolution may have had a hand in the losing of their wings and grounding them, due to lack of food source in sky..









2nd & 3rd =
1st = I was being completely serious

I disagree, in this example the negligence was a failure to properly control/retain the firearm. Don't drop your gun!

 

[4excal]

I disagree, in this example the negligence was a failure to properly control/retain the firearm. Don't drop your gun!

Yes..don't drop your gun is the correct answer. Never happened to anyone here in their own privacy of their bedroom, bathroom, or anywhere?? People have dropped their new babies, highly doubtful on purpose either..In the 22 years I've been carrying I think I "dropped" my gun one time from 2 feet onto my carpeted floor, although I don't leave one chambered, ever, a little less scary but still scary as hell. I'm sure 1 time in 22 years is pretty good to some stats from people that would be honest and not web warriors. So short story..accidents do happen. To claim an accident won't is bogus, to claim it's negligence is bogus, no human is perfect. My "example" though was just that, I was thinking of a real world possible accident example.

 

[Cooolone]

I'm not so sure about that statement.

1st rebuttal: example, man takes down his pants sitting to use toilet, the gun heavier than the waistband flips(as we know can happen,depending on type of pants) and say it falls out or slams down on floor and the person had one chambered(chambered..that being another argument for another thread) with a cheap gun and bad safety mechanism (as we know happened to the Taurus models that were recalled) gun fires..to me that's an accidental discharge.

2nd rebuttal: unicorns could have existed and genetic mutations over time may be the cause of the sighting of a "unicorn"

3rd rebuttal: dragons may have flew originally but again evolution may have had a hand in the losing of their wings and grounding them, due to lack of food source in sky..









2nd & 3rd =
1st = I was being completely serious

Ummmm, sorry, no. If the idiot doesn't secure the weapon prior to pulling down his pants, he deserves to get his balls blown off! And it would still be "NEGLIGENT" not accidental.

Accidental would be near impossible, and even if say, a mechanical malfunction somehow or another caused a weapon to discharge without any type of interaction, temperature, shock, etc., it would still be "NEGLIGENT" on the part of the manufacturer due to the mechanical malfunction. Any discharge due to finger being placed upon the trigger, dropping, handling, or otherwise are all "Negligent"... Saying it was accidental is just semantics being utilized in order to elicit a prescribed response of acceptance that the person who had the wepaon was not responsible for their act/actions.

Kinda like HITLERY saying she didn't "INTEND" to break any law... In both cases, that's just bullshit!

 

[Doc8404]

Agreed. I unholster before pulling my pants down.

 

[Mr. terzmo]

"professional courtesy"

 

[Shadow2]

The infamous "Glock Discharge". Im not a fan of the pulling the trigger to take down. Don't think I'd ever own one. Much prefer hammered pistols anyway.

 

[NirvanaFan]

Agreed. I unholster before pulling my pants down.

I hold onto the gun and holster with one hand, and the other side of my pants with the other. For some reason, I'm not a fan of reholstering. Something about not being able to totally see exactly what you're doing.

 

[Doc8404]

My Glock is bigger than yours....so I can always see it.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

What is it with police shooting themselves in the ass, feet, thumbs etc? Glocks seem really dangerous. As far as there not being accidental discharges thats bunk. Sometimes there are indeed true accidental discharges. Like 4excal said a drop is an accident. Also what about actual faulty mechanisms like a bad sear? You're walking around holstered and all of the sudden you have a bullet in your ass. That's an accident.



ETA:
accident
noun
1. an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap: automobile accidents.
2. Law. such a happening resulting in injury that is in no way the fault of the injured person for which compensation or indemnity is legally sought.
3. any event that happens unexpectedly, without a deliberate plan or cause.
4. chance; fortune; luck: I was there by accident.
5. a fortuitous circumstance, quality, or characteristic: an accident of birth.
6. Philosophy. any entity or event contingent upon the existence of something else.
7. Geology. a surface irregularity, usually on a small scale, the reason for which is not apparent.

negligent
adjective
1. guilty of or characterized by neglect, as of duty: negligent officials.
2. lazily careless; offhand: a negligent wave of his manicured hand.

 

[Doc8404]

Correct: lazily careless;

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Correct: lazily careless;

So is my bullet in the ass while being holstered example laziness or carelessness?

 

[Doc8404]

I didn't watch those two videos.
Was one where a holstered gun went off?

 

[Doc8404]

Oh you mean the act of holstering?
As in the process of putting your firearm into the holster?
Lazy ? Nah. Just a dumbass.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

In the videos they were demonstrating guns that went off by just jarring them and also one that went full auto because of some faulty mechanism. I didn't mean while you were holstering. I meant the gun is already holstered, you go about your business and the gun goes off because of one of these faulty mechanisms. Is that laziness or carelessness?

 

[4excal]

Thank you for being modest enough to agree that accidents do happen and will happen and not that almighty being as many web warriors are.., they will happen to the poor unfortunate person..like my example of the couple who may have dropped their newborn, or a human that drops a puppy..an accident is just that..not negligence. Sure, there are negligent gun owners and puppy owners, but that's the negligent type..

What is it with police shooting themselves in the ass, feet, thumbs etc? Glocks seem really dangerous. As far as there not being accidental discharges thats bunk. Sometimes there are indeed true accidental discharges. Like 4excal said a drop is an accident. Also what about actual faulty mechanisms like a bad sear? You're walking around holstered and all of the sudden you have a bullet in your ass. That's an accident.



ETA:
accident
noun
1. an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap: automobile accidents.
2. Law. such a happening resulting in injury that is in no way the fault of the injured person for which compensation or indemnity is legally sought.
3. any event that happens unexpectedly, without a deliberate plan or cause.
4. chance; fortune; luck: I was there by accident.
5. a fortuitous circumstance, quality, or characteristic: an accident of birth.
6. Philosophy. any entity or event contingent upon the existence of something else.
7. Geology. a surface irregularity, usually on a small scale, the reason for which is not apparent.

negligent
adjective
1. guilty of or characterized by neglect, as of duty: negligent officials.
2. lazily careless; offhand: a negligent wave of his manicured hand.

 

[4excal]

In the videos they were demonstrating guns that went off by just jarring them and also one that went full auto because of some faulty mechanism. I didn't mean while you were holstering. I meant the gun is already holstered, you go about your business and the gun goes off because of one of these faulty mechanisms. Is that laziness or carelessness?

It's an accident and a manufacturer defect..not negligence as some posters want you to believe that regardless of how it happens your a negligent gun owner..that's wrong

 

[GOPerfect]

Agreed. I unholster before pulling my pants down.

I have, as an adult, never Pooed in public so I do not need to worry to remove the gun prior to dropping my pants.

 

[Doc8404]

Come on!

 

[Cooolone]

I love how things are taken to ridiculous proportions for people attempting to prove a point which is irrelevant to the original post.

For the matter, a gun dropping out of a holster because an idiot is dropping his pants without regard to the placement or position or security of the firearm is entirely NEGLIGENT and not accidental. PERIOD!

The video examples are MALFUNCTIONING firearms and nothing ACCIDENTAL about it... The second video the guy is putting his finger on the trigger so does not apply, anything that occurs afterwards is intentional... The first video is a terrible example as well, a serious malfunction and once known, the fact the guy is reloading the gun is entirely NEGLIGENT regardless of the intent to demonstrate the malfunction. So you can post all the Webster Dictionary descriptive so you want to exclaim an ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGE, but it'll never stick... So back to the original story, because those videos have absolutely nothing to do with the subject. Drop you pants, take you gun out, holster, reholster, etc... Any discharge, YOU are responsible for and calling it anything else is nothing more than trying to assign responsibility to something or someone else. I've dropped my loaded single action, locked and cocked p238 onto a hard tile floor, safety on... And it did not discharge! Thank the heavens, but, had it done so, I would've fully accepted my NEGLIGENCE in allowing it to happen. There was nothing accidental about it. Clumsy, stupid, moronic, but all my fault.

As to ol' boy Webster... "NEGLIGENCE" - failure to properly take care in doing something.

Let's examine that... Properly exercising "CARE"

"CARE" - provisioning what is necessary for the Health, Welfare, or Maintenance of something or someone. Or furthermore - attention applied to doing something correctly to avoid damage.

Now, we can all agree these traits are clearly understood and a paramount exercise while possessing firearms, after all, it is in those silly little rules we all learn. But I'll play...

"ACCIDENT" - an unfortunate incident that happens UNEXPECTEDLY and UNINTENTIONALLY, typically resulting in damage or injury.

So the very examples provided, there is nothing unexpecteded when a firearm is dropped and discharges, because it's not designed to be dropped. The unintentional part can be disproved by asking what the expectation was by dropping pants without securing the weapon prior...

So, again... Nothing ACCIDENTAL here, sorry.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

The videos were to show that malfunctions do occur in firearms. If holstered (meaning already in your holster) those malfunctions can cause accidental discharges. I thought that was pretty simple to follow.

P.S. I used dictionary.com

 

[4excal]

The videos were to show that malfunctions do occur in firearms. If holstered (meaning already in your holster) those malfunctions can cause accidental discharges. I thought that was pretty simple to follow.

P.S. I used dictionary.com

^^^^^^^exactly^^^^^^^