GTN
.308 Win
Ok so......
Next question
is ambidextrous needed?
No bickering please
Next question
is ambidextrous needed?
No bickering please
Ambidextrous Charging Handles
- Thread starter GTN
- Start date
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
No. You only charge the rifle once. After that, you do not touch it again unless you have a malfunction.
I guess some top tier operators deemed them necessary if that's what they decided to go with on their rifles (specifically talking about US Army Special Operations Command and the 75th Rangers who have been using the URG-I since 2018).
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
Who is not to benefit from having ambi controls on a rifle?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Me as a right handed user. Why would I need one? I only charge the weapon once. After that, it isn’t used at all. The bolt release is used. When and if a malfunction occurs, I can see somewhat of a benefit in having a little something extra to grip on to but there was never a time for me or anyone that I knew who was right handed that wished they had an ambidextrous charging handle that protruded quite a bit on both sides.
When a weapon goes down and you perform Tap, Rack, Bang, it can be done very quickly with a standard sized one. I never knew of anyone ever having an issue. Even lefties do not have issues.
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
My point would just be for the rare case where one was in a situation they, for whatever reason, could not manipulate the controls of a rifle with their dominant hand. Or they could use their dominant hand but the controls made for their dominant side were for whatever reason not easily accessible. It just boils down to having the option.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Yeah. Well for those rare occurrences, I can see your point. For me, I weigh out the negatives too. I will not be wearing armor so comfort trumps the rare occurrence for me. If I was going to change my handle out, a lower profile one would serve me better. One that doesn’t stick out so much on the chest side of the rifle.
On my Ruger PCC, I changed the bolt release to my offside for that very reason.
On my Ruger PCC, I changed the bolt release to my offside for that very reason.
No, none of these refinements are necessary. They are just nice to have. Personally I find the ambi handle to be useful for press checks. I rollnthe gun over and use the right side wing to open the action as I observe the chamber. You can do this with a GI handle also, I just find it a little more convenient with my Raptor and Geisselle.
That sums up my thoughts on these types of charging handles- Not strictly necessary but very nice to have. If you are so interested I would just get one to try for yourself, sell it off you don't like it. They certainly can't hurt.
Please stick to the topic, bickering will cause this thread to be closed. Gun topics are rare on this forum, let’s have a good discussion instead of a: he said she said thread.
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Vague topics like this are a kin to “Ford vs Chevy Discuss“ and tend to devolve, they are usually closed on sight.
In any case is there a specific question you want answered @GTN or are you just trying to stir the pot?
In case you are serious I will give my opinion on the subject. I have probably built more ARs than most on this forum And have used them for the last 37 years, my opinion is no more valuable than anyone else’s though. It is just grounded in my preferences and experience. I am a south paw, the AR controls are just something I had to learn out necessity and have become comfortable with the use of standard parts, so I do have a preference.
Ambi controls are generally a nice to have option and not necessarily a “must have” for the guns to function as intended. It really depends on what you plan on using the gun for and your tastes.
There are several nice charging handles on the market, I think I still have 3 Radian ambi charging handles in my fleet. They are on AR308 rifles and on rifles with scopes.
I think the use of a traditional scope lends itself the need to have a larger lever or an ambi lever for ease of use. I have installed several longer levers on guns with scopes as it helps me charge the gun easier.
In any case is there a specific question you want answered @GTN or are you just trying to stir the pot?
In case you are serious I will give my opinion on the subject. I have probably built more ARs than most on this forum And have used them for the last 37 years, my opinion is no more valuable than anyone else’s though. It is just grounded in my preferences and experience. I am a south paw, the AR controls are just something I had to learn out necessity and have become comfortable with the use of standard parts, so I do have a preference.
Ambi controls are generally a nice to have option and not necessarily a “must have” for the guns to function as intended. It really depends on what you plan on using the gun for and your tastes.
There are several nice charging handles on the market, I think I still have 3 Radian ambi charging handles in my fleet. They are on AR308 rifles and on rifles with scopes.
I think the use of a traditional scope lends itself the need to have a larger lever or an ambi lever for ease of use. I have installed several longer levers on guns with scopes as it helps me charge the gun easier.
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Lol, and all the while you do indeed run a few Radian handles, ha! The scope thing, I missed that too. Overhanging optics can indeed hinder access to the GI handle, good point.
So @GTN I think we can lay down the following criteria:
Do you have or plan on mounting a scope?
Do you find the GI handle to be difficult or uncomfortable to use single handed?
If yes to either, and in particular in the first case, then yes an ambi handle could be worthwhile to you.
Otherwise its not a priority.
nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
GTN
.308 Win
Ok here’s my reasoning for my 2 threads on charging handles.
I’m not trying to stir the pot.
I have 2 AR’s but very little experience with them. I’d love to take a class on them but the money for that just isn’t there anymore.
On a recommendation I put a non-traditional handle on that didn’t work out.
I have the stock handle but wanted to see if there was something better out there.
My main AR has a red dot. My 20” barreled AR has a scope.
Sorry for the vague questions but I’m just trying to learn
I’m not trying to stir the pot.
I have 2 AR’s but very little experience with them. I’d love to take a class on them but the money for that just isn’t there anymore.
On a recommendation I put a non-traditional handle on that didn’t work out.
I have the stock handle but wanted to see if there was something better out there.
My main AR has a red dot. My 20” barreled AR has a scope.
Sorry for the vague questions but I’m just trying to learn
Here is a size comparison of a basic gi charging handle vs a Raptor SL (other mentioned the Geissele, which i couldn't actually find any of the measurements but they have an "Airborne" model which would be roughly the same size, also mentioned was the BCM who you guessed it has a small version as well which was close to the same size as the Raptor, can't remember the numbers off hand but I mentioned them in the other thread)
Any ways here is the SL next to a standard GI handle
Now as for the larger size ambi charging handles, here is the standard size Raptor (one thing I believe Radian Weapons does well that Geissele doesn't do, is the left side is smaller than the right side. Don't want to get poked)
Here is the standard size Raptor next to a GI handle. Like mentioned may be useful to help clear glass (again notice on the Raptor on the side that would be the latching side of the GI is actually very very similar in size)
Any ways here is the SL next to a standard GI handle
Now as for the larger size ambi charging handles, here is the standard size Raptor (one thing I believe Radian Weapons does well that Geissele doesn't do, is the left side is smaller than the right side. Don't want to get poked)
Here is the standard size Raptor next to a GI handle. Like mentioned may be useful to help clear glass (again notice on the Raptor on the side that would be the latching side of the GI is actually very very similar in size)
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Being left handed with, I guess right handed chargers, I don't see any repetitive problem, thought once in a while I grab it wrong and fumble a bit. On a go to gun its ambi, no time for mishaps there.
Robin
Robin
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
I would consider getting an ambi anything on a rifle a matter of ergonomics, which is comfort. So for you a larger ambi latch on a charging handle is less ergonomic for you and less comfortable. So not something you'd want.
Do you recall the retro charging handles on the very early M16's? They are triangular in shape instead of the "T" handle on modern ones. Brownells sells remakes of them. These are not as easy to grab, but would certainly not give you a problem with digging into your chest.
078000373 | Brownells
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Money and ammo is tight that I can surely understand, however in your case trigger time is absolutely tge best investment of your money right now. Experience with the platform will highlight those areas on the AR15 which you would like to improve and which you need not. Keep track of @OnSight Firearms Training's schedules. The classes are not expensive and Ben may be running private classes that run for only a few hours that you can get in on for even less money.
I just checked the AR308 I have immediate access to it doesn’t appear to be shorter on one side. If it is there is only a slight difference in Handle size.
I'm guessing you have the Raptor DPMS Gen II DPMS
And along with the DPMS Gen II both the Sog MPX and MCX have the same size wings on each side.
BUT if we are to now look at "Raptor Ambidextrous charging handle" AND the "Raptor-LT Ambidextrous charging handle" .... not same same..
maybe it was so long ago I ordered them. I think they were about 70 bucks each when I bought them, they are for the DPMS LR308 gen 1 receiver.
Yea im guessing the handle you have is essentially the one they are selling now for the DPMS which they only seem to have the one option (the one I shared a pic of) which doesn't have the smaller left side.
But for the "AR15" pattern they after the larger ambi handle that has a smaller left side, or they offer like yours both sides being the same size (large)
Along with the overall small version, but I think for what OP is looking for with glass on his gun the last two photos I posted would be a great compromise Ambidextrous and also keeping the chest side not so pocket.
as with Adding any optional equipment, the total configuration, User and Intended use must be considered.
The AR9 I built for the wife uses a badger ordnance tactical latch so she could use the meaty part of her hand to charge the gun. She didn’t have the finger grasp strength to overcome the latch and move the 11ounce buffer back.
This set up would not work well with a traditional scope though as the latch would be too close to the Eye bell ( ocular lens housing)
GTN
.308 Win
the AR I’m looking for a handle for only has a red dot
Then id say look at the SL (raptor) or airborn (geissele)
***edit*** or the BCM (cost effective) 4x4 (its the medium latches)
Here is the 4x4 BCM (the medium latches)
PeoplePhobic
.177 BB
Hi. I'm new to the forum. I actually had a hand injury a few years ago. My left thumb's flexor tendon was severed and I needed to have it reattached which involved surgery all the way down into my wrist.
I had an older ambi charging handle and frankly It didn't help much. Ambi controls don't exactly give you full function one-handed.
If I had to I could hold my AR with my left forearm and run the axis with my right had but there were things I could not do like lock the bolt back and show clear if someone called a cold range. Granted this is obviously not needed in a self defense situation unless you have some kind of malfunction but if you find yourself with one hand it's going to take a minute to figure that out and you're going to need to try some things.
I found the best option for me in my specific situation was a Devil Dog Concepts Hard charger.
(This pistol and I are still in TX so everything is legal on it don't hate on it)
The hard charger gave me enough leverage to manipulate the charging handle with my forearm, a table, a boot, really anything and paired with the Magpul BAD lever it was easy to show clear. I have no problems mounting my red dot behind it. They have since come out with more models that can go around other optics. Depending on what kind of optic you use, side charging can also be a real benefit to that ergonomically.
If you want to shoot right and left handed an ambi handle might be good for you. You can grab around with your right hand and manipulate a traditional charging handle one handed but it's not as easy as with an ambi. Depending how much motor control you lose in an injury you may not be able to do things like locking the bcg back. If I lost the use of my whole arm I wouldn't have been able to grab the gun in my forearm and the hard charger would be the only way other than trying to hold the gun in my legs.
Even after recovering I like the Hard Charger better. I've always been more accustomed to side charging weapons. I grew up with a Marlin 795/995 and had an AK after that and my favorite rifle right now is the IWI X95. The way the AR charges has always seemed wonky to me.
I didn't really figure all this out till my hand was actually messed up. Also, I was in GA at the time. You might just drop the rifle and grab a pistol instead if a hand or arm goes down. The main benefit I considered in GA and now in TX of the AR being the 30 rounds already in the gun doesn't really apply in NY. You can sling the thing and still use you're only hand for other stuff. A Glock with a 30 rd mag doesn't holster very well to get your only hand back. With restrictions 10 rds vs 10 rds you might be better off in a one handed situation with a pistol if you have a permit and stuff.
Depending on your injury it might not be something you can fight through pain and still use a hand or a fist at all. Muscles don't work without tendons. Ambi and one-handed are two very different things.
Anyway, those are my thoughts from my experience actually being one-handed for a while.
I had an older ambi charging handle and frankly It didn't help much. Ambi controls don't exactly give you full function one-handed.
If I had to I could hold my AR with my left forearm and run the axis with my right had but there were things I could not do like lock the bolt back and show clear if someone called a cold range. Granted this is obviously not needed in a self defense situation unless you have some kind of malfunction but if you find yourself with one hand it's going to take a minute to figure that out and you're going to need to try some things.
I found the best option for me in my specific situation was a Devil Dog Concepts Hard charger.
(This pistol and I are still in TX so everything is legal on it don't hate on it)
The hard charger gave me enough leverage to manipulate the charging handle with my forearm, a table, a boot, really anything and paired with the Magpul BAD lever it was easy to show clear. I have no problems mounting my red dot behind it. They have since come out with more models that can go around other optics. Depending on what kind of optic you use, side charging can also be a real benefit to that ergonomically.
If you want to shoot right and left handed an ambi handle might be good for you. You can grab around with your right hand and manipulate a traditional charging handle one handed but it's not as easy as with an ambi. Depending how much motor control you lose in an injury you may not be able to do things like locking the bcg back. If I lost the use of my whole arm I wouldn't have been able to grab the gun in my forearm and the hard charger would be the only way other than trying to hold the gun in my legs.
Even after recovering I like the Hard Charger better. I've always been more accustomed to side charging weapons. I grew up with a Marlin 795/995 and had an AK after that and my favorite rifle right now is the IWI X95. The way the AR charges has always seemed wonky to me.
I didn't really figure all this out till my hand was actually messed up. Also, I was in GA at the time. You might just drop the rifle and grab a pistol instead if a hand or arm goes down. The main benefit I considered in GA and now in TX of the AR being the 30 rounds already in the gun doesn't really apply in NY. You can sling the thing and still use you're only hand for other stuff. A Glock with a 30 rd mag doesn't holster very well to get your only hand back. With restrictions 10 rds vs 10 rds you might be better off in a one handed situation with a pistol if you have a permit and stuff.
Depending on your injury it might not be something you can fight through pain and still use a hand or a fist at all. Muscles don't work without tendons. Ambi and one-handed are two very different things.
Anyway, those are my thoughts from my experience actually being one-handed for a while.
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Devil Dog Concepts Hard charger. What a cool idea!!!! Great stocking stuffer this Christmas!!!!!
Robin
Robin