mikeeycohen
.177 BB
Hi all, Just be aware that the GVR (and presumed reversion to the Prelim Injunction status) does not take effect until after 32 days from July 2 (Rule 45).
Antonyuk, Ivan Et Al. V. James Et Al. GVR'd by SCOTUS on 2 July 2024
- Thread starter US RIFLE M1A
- Start date
mikeeycohen
.177 BB
UPDATE: TUSH JAMES's office says injunctions not in effect - according to several news sources that are stating:
"In the Antonyuk matter, vacating the lower court ruling did not appear to automatically put Suddaby’s “sensitive locations” injunction back in place. Reached for comment on the matter, a spokesperson from James’s office said, “The law is still in effect, including the sensitive locations provision, and will be re-litigated in the Second Circuit.”
See: https://www.news10.com/news/ny-news/scotus-vacates-ny-circuit-court-gun-control-ruling/ and MSN
I believe she is wrong and just doing what she does best (being wrong), but this may mean that ADAs and police will be so instructed.
"In the Antonyuk matter, vacating the lower court ruling did not appear to automatically put Suddaby’s “sensitive locations” injunction back in place. Reached for comment on the matter, a spokesperson from James’s office said, “The law is still in effect, including the sensitive locations provision, and will be re-litigated in the Second Circuit.”
See: https://www.news10.com/news/ny-news/scotus-vacates-ny-circuit-court-gun-control-ruling/ and MSN
I believe she is wrong and just doing what she does best (being wrong), but this may mean that ADAs and police will be so instructed.
US RIFLE M1A
.45 acp
First off, these are the words of one of those pool reporters from a local rag. That's how they write things; they know nothing of the subject, they don't want to know, so they say things like 'did not appear to.'
And the article quotes an un-named and un-credentialed 'spokesperson' (who could be anyone, including the receptionist) who tosses out a partial truth about the law still being in effect. Yes, it is, for 32 days after the GVR.
Now if anyone involved in this relaying of information to the public via the lowest of communications channels (I would rather get my news from graffiti on the wall of a highway underpass than from one of those upstate rag newspapers) took a look at some REAL sources, they would find that there are some very specific legal facts at work here.
Now, getting into the legal specifics of the case:
- Antonyuk et al (Antonyuk) brought suit in federal district court (Suddaby) challenging the CCIA which was passed after Bruen in mid-2022.
- Suddaby issued a preliminary injunction (PI) against most of the CCIA in late 2022.
- The 2nd Circuit Court (2nd) issued a stay of Suddaby almost immediately, heard the state's appeal of Suddaby's injunction in early 2023, and over-turned most of it by late 2023, thereby reverting back to most of the CCIA.
- Antonyuk filed for Certorarai (cert) to the US Supreme Court (SCOTUS) in early 2024. In his filing, he specifically praised Suddaby's decision (for an important reason).
- In July 2024, SCOTUS granted cert, vacated the 2nd, and remanded back to the 2nd in light of Rahimi.
- Rahimi specifically states that Bruen applies to all members of 'the people' who are not adjudicated as dangerous to have 2A rights.
Now understand that in law, you are required in your pleadings to include everything you are asking for; because you will not get anything you do not ask for. So...
- In Antonyuk's application for Cert (and at other various places before that) he specifically cites Suddaby as a model of decision making vis a vis the CCIA.
- Therefore, Antonyuk is positioning Sudaby as the default if he wins at SCOTUS.
Then...
- On July 2, 2024 - ANTONYUK WINS (this round, at least) which is a huge victory. Rarely does SCOTUS grant cert on a case that has not reached final adjudication, this case is in the preliminary injunction phase.
So, in law, when you win, you get part or all of what you ask for.
The key here is that by winning, Antonyuk gets what he asked for (or some of it) but nothing he does not ask for.
- Antonyuk asked for and was granted what he asked for which was to have the decision of the 2nd VACATED.
- And by praising Suddaby, he also asks to have that decision as the operative law in effect until the next phase of the litigation. No, AG James (or and unkown 'spokes' person) - Judge Suddaby's decision is NOT the baby that gets thrown out with the bath water - it is now law.
Please read the above again. Thank you.
(A review of Suddaby's PI, a review of Antonyuk's app. for cert, and a review of the GVR, they line up perfectly to return to Suddaby's decision as operative law.)
By any logical train of thought, and a smattering of common sense, barring some arcane maneuvering by the state and the 2nd (who are in cahoots at least in ideology), Judge Suddaby's ruling of late 2022 becomes the law that we as lawfully armed citizens live by for now.
I am not a lawyer, the above is not legal advice.
And the article quotes an un-named and un-credentialed 'spokesperson' (who could be anyone, including the receptionist) who tosses out a partial truth about the law still being in effect. Yes, it is, for 32 days after the GVR.
Now if anyone involved in this relaying of information to the public via the lowest of communications channels (I would rather get my news from graffiti on the wall of a highway underpass than from one of those upstate rag newspapers) took a look at some REAL sources, they would find that there are some very specific legal facts at work here.
Now, getting into the legal specifics of the case:
- Antonyuk et al (Antonyuk) brought suit in federal district court (Suddaby) challenging the CCIA which was passed after Bruen in mid-2022.
- Suddaby issued a preliminary injunction (PI) against most of the CCIA in late 2022.
- The 2nd Circuit Court (2nd) issued a stay of Suddaby almost immediately, heard the state's appeal of Suddaby's injunction in early 2023, and over-turned most of it by late 2023, thereby reverting back to most of the CCIA.
- Antonyuk filed for Certorarai (cert) to the US Supreme Court (SCOTUS) in early 2024. In his filing, he specifically praised Suddaby's decision (for an important reason).
- In July 2024, SCOTUS granted cert, vacated the 2nd, and remanded back to the 2nd in light of Rahimi.
- Rahimi specifically states that Bruen applies to all members of 'the people' who are not adjudicated as dangerous to have 2A rights.
Now understand that in law, you are required in your pleadings to include everything you are asking for; because you will not get anything you do not ask for. So...
- In Antonyuk's application for Cert (and at other various places before that) he specifically cites Suddaby as a model of decision making vis a vis the CCIA.
- Therefore, Antonyuk is positioning Sudaby as the default if he wins at SCOTUS.
Then...
- On July 2, 2024 - ANTONYUK WINS (this round, at least) which is a huge victory. Rarely does SCOTUS grant cert on a case that has not reached final adjudication, this case is in the preliminary injunction phase.
So, in law, when you win, you get part or all of what you ask for.
The key here is that by winning, Antonyuk gets what he asked for (or some of it) but nothing he does not ask for.
- Antonyuk asked for and was granted what he asked for which was to have the decision of the 2nd VACATED.
- And by praising Suddaby, he also asks to have that decision as the operative law in effect until the next phase of the litigation. No, AG James (or and unkown 'spokes' person) - Judge Suddaby's decision is NOT the baby that gets thrown out with the bath water - it is now law.
Please read the above again. Thank you.
(A review of Suddaby's PI, a review of Antonyuk's app. for cert, and a review of the GVR, they line up perfectly to return to Suddaby's decision as operative law.)
By any logical train of thought, and a smattering of common sense, barring some arcane maneuvering by the state and the 2nd (who are in cahoots at least in ideology), Judge Suddaby's ruling of late 2022 becomes the law that we as lawfully armed citizens live by for now.
I am not a lawyer, the above is not legal advice.
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US RIFLE M1A
.45 acp
EXCERPTS FROM:
PETITION FOR WRIT OF CERTIORARI - FEB 20,2024
ANTONYUK V. JAMES
Page 8 - Key concepts here are 'granting preliminary relief' which means 'we got what we asked for' and in effect 'could I have that back, please.' This is to demonstrate to SCOTUS that if I win, this is what I want to go back to.
Page 9 - Again including praise for Suddaby, this time invoking the words of two SCOTUS Justices.
Page 18 - Isolating the 2nd Circuit as the party who issued improper rulings, as opposed to Suddaby's proper ruling.
Over and over again, Antonyuk takes issue with the 2nd Circuit and how they over-ruled Bruen from below. Antonyuk also praises Suddaby as having given the relief asked for.
THE DECISION RENDERED BY THE 2ND CIRCUIT HAS BEEN VACATED BY SCOTUS, AS ASKED FOR BY THE PETITIONER (ANTONYUK).
THE PETITIONER ALSO POINTS TO SUDDABY AS THE PROPER RULING.
THE GVR ISSUED BY SCOTUS DOES NOT VACATE SUDDABY'S DECISION, IN FACT IT FOLLOWS ANTONYUK'S LEAD IN VERIFYING IT AS PROPER.
THEREFORE SUDDABY STANDS.
PETITION FOR WRIT OF CERTIORARI - FEB 20,2024
ANTONYUK V. JAMES
Page 8 - Key concepts here are 'granting preliminary relief' which means 'we got what we asked for' and in effect 'could I have that back, please.' This is to demonstrate to SCOTUS that if I win, this is what I want to go back to.
Page 9 - Again including praise for Suddaby, this time invoking the words of two SCOTUS Justices.
Page 18 - Isolating the 2nd Circuit as the party who issued improper rulings, as opposed to Suddaby's proper ruling.
Over and over again, Antonyuk takes issue with the 2nd Circuit and how they over-ruled Bruen from below. Antonyuk also praises Suddaby as having given the relief asked for.
THE DECISION RENDERED BY THE 2ND CIRCUIT HAS BEEN VACATED BY SCOTUS, AS ASKED FOR BY THE PETITIONER (ANTONYUK).
THE PETITIONER ALSO POINTS TO SUDDABY AS THE PROPER RULING.
THE GVR ISSUED BY SCOTUS DOES NOT VACATE SUDDABY'S DECISION, IN FACT IT FOLLOWS ANTONYUK'S LEAD IN VERIFYING IT AS PROPER.
THEREFORE SUDDABY STANDS.
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Saltwater60
.950 JDJ
I hope it gets settled but this is a bit odd because the 2nd gave us some rights back but now that it is vacated does that mean our rights that we got back will be gone again. So I guess what I’m asking is will the entire CCIA be put back in place until the second makes up their minds? The Supreme Court screwed us on this and yes I know in the end it will be better…… but the Supreme Court should have just slapped them down and said here is our ruling and let’s expand on this. What a joke.
US RIFLE M1A
.45 acp
Did you read anything I wrote above? I am not a lawyer, but what I posted was researched and cited using impeccable logic. Hand wringing and blanket statements such as 'we are so screwed' do nothing positive. Know the law and act accordingly.
Read Antonyuk's Petition for Grant of Ceriorari
^^^^^^ THIS IS WHAT WAS GRANTED. ^^^^^^
Writ of Certiorari GRANTED. Read the petition for the Writ of Certiorari. They (SCOTUS) read it, and they granted it. That means they agreed with what was in the petition. That means they agreed with Antonyuk, hated what the 2nd wrote, and agreed again with Antonyuk that Suddaby was proper. What is so difficult to understand?
LIKE GETTING AN A++ ON A COLLEGE PAPER. That means everything in it is really good.
I have given you enough to go on, but then again so does a new toilet.
(Give you something to go on, that is)
IANAL
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That_FNG
.308 Win
What about the other court cases (the Christian VS nys and the Hardway VS nys). Even if the entire antoyak case went poof from existence don’t we still have those cases?
US RIFLE M1A
.45 acp
I have not looked into it, because the tires do not hit the road with those cases, and I am not getting paid as an attorney. Antonyuk affects our carry rights in real time.
mikeeycohen
.177 BB
I believe you are correct, technically. But it also useful to know what the state is saying, and how it will be directing LEO/DAs, since in this state it is common to be arrested, booked, jailed overnight and arraigned all on gun BS. So people need to know what the consequences/costs may be. BTW the Rule 45 delay exist partly for this reason (to allow the dust to settle and consequences of a ruling be determined). I am hoping the mandated 10-day-after-ruling status report to Suddaby will clear thing up better.
RedBreast21
.223 Rem
Just for context about SCOTUS smack downs on lower courts. The 2000 presidential election saw SCOTUS send back to the 11th circuit 3 times, I believe, their violations of the 14th amendment in that courts ruling in Gore vs Bush. SCOTUS had to then take the case and overturn the 11th circuit court. So don't expect the 2nd circuit court to do anything but waste time and drag this out until SCOTUS steps in and rules. After that, NY state legislature will draft and pass another law violating the same provisions ruled against by SCOTUS.
Left wing progressive States and governors in this country have no respect for the highest court in the land. Not even "democracy" has a chance of working under that practice.
Left wing progressive States and governors in this country have no respect for the highest court in the land. Not even "democracy" has a chance of working under that practice.
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mikeeycohen
.177 BB
We do. In March (us) and May (NYS) both sides moved for Summary Judgement. Last entry on docket was June 3 (technical order). I am sure Justice Sinatra has been waiting for the Antonyuk SCOTUS case, and will also wait for the 10-day-status-report to be filed first in that case. But Antonyuk did not 'go poof'.
US RIFLE M1A
.45 acp
Not familiar with this.
mikeeycohen
.177 BB
I believe you are correct, technically. But it also useful to know what he state is saying, and how it will be directing LEO/DAs, since in this state it is common to be arrested, booked, jailed overnight and arraigned all on gun BS. So people need to know what the consequences may be.
Last entry in Antonyuk case (district court)
US RIFLE M1A
.45 acp
OK, well that's good. Judge Suddaby will issue a ruling, however temporary, in Antonyuk's favor, sometime after he gets the status report and prior to the 2nd Circuit decision expiring as per the mandate from SCOTUS.
In the mean time, I can still carry in Home Depot.
In the mean time, I can still carry in Home Depot.
mikeeycohen
.177 BB
I believe you are correct, technically. But it also useful to know what he state is saying, and how it will be directing LEO/DAs, since in this state it is common to be arrested, booked, jailed overnight and arraigned all on gun BS. So people need to know what the consequences may be.
mikeeycohen
.177 BB
Recent article confirming favorable effect of the Vacate order (contradicting predictable negative statement from Tush James’ office). Note: Effective date is Aug 4. Supreme Court vacates 2nd Circuit ruling to uphold NYS concealed carry laws, remands back for new decision - North Country Now "Concealed carried firearms will be allowed in a number of previously prohibited spaces, at least temporarily, following a Supreme Court decision. ..."
GlockModel29
.40 S&W
Thanx Mike, great info....
US RIFLE M1A
.45 acp
Attorney General James Announces Ban on Having 'Woody' in New York
NEW YORK - Attorney General James announced a ban on the NRA having "Woody" in New York. In February, a jury found the NRA liable for not managing their Woody and ordered them to pay damages. New Yorkers need to know that we hold their Woody, accountable, and this should serve as an example.
The NRA held firm, and insisted that their 'Woody' did nothing wrong other than pay for lavish trips to warm locations.
ag.ny.gov
If this is all they have, plus some ghost gun nonsense, a week after the SCOTUS ruling, this is a good thing.
NEW YORK - Attorney General James announced a ban on the NRA having "Woody" in New York. In February, a jury found the NRA liable for not managing their Woody and ordered them to pay damages. New Yorkers need to know that we hold their Woody, accountable, and this should serve as an example.
The NRA held firm, and insisted that their 'Woody' did nothing wrong other than pay for lavish trips to warm locations.
Attorney General James Announces Ban on Ex-NRA CFO Wilson “Woody” Phillips from Not-for-Profit Industry in New York
NEW YORK – New York Attorney General Letitia James today announced a settlement with the National Rifle Association’s (NRA) former Chief Financial Officer (CFO)
If this is all they have, plus some ghost gun nonsense, a week after the SCOTUS ruling, this is a good thing.
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Phillips,acted like all members of Congress, the Deep State, CEO's, most for profit and non profit orgs, most state and county workers, especially the elected ones like Fanny Willis, Jack Smith, Garland, Chutkin, Engoron. Merchan and thousands of others...........campaign contributions are the biggest source of corruption and self aggrandizment.
BLM head was never really prosecuted........
BLM head was never really prosecuted........
Saltwater60
.950 JDJ
When can we ban politicians.
US RIFLE M1A
.45 acp
They have to be seen as 'doing something.' So Ghost Guns are next on the list of things to pick on.
Problem is, Hochul and James make a rookie mistake and picked on something definable; a 'lawfully carried self defense handgun.' And so they lost. The GVR was a solid loss for the state, don't let anyone tell you different.
They realize they should have stuck with 'Assault Weapons' or now 'Ghost Guns.' Things that are labeled with scary nonsense terminology.
They have to scare people before they can convince them the state is doing the right thing. No one in their right mind is scared of a 'lawfully carried.....'
ag.ny.gov
Problem is, Hochul and James make a rookie mistake and picked on something definable; a 'lawfully carried self defense handgun.' And so they lost. The GVR was a solid loss for the state, don't let anyone tell you different.
They realize they should have stuck with 'Assault Weapons' or now 'Ghost Guns.' Things that are labeled with scary nonsense terminology.
They have to scare people before they can convince them the state is doing the right thing. No one in their right mind is scared of a 'lawfully carried.....'
Attorney General James Takes Action to Uphold Federal Ghost Gun Regulations
NEW YORK – Attorney General Letitia James today joined a coalition of 24 attorneys general in urging the United States Supreme Court to uphold a federal rule
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US RIFLE M1A
.45 acp
If anyone is looking for the 2nd Circuit ruling that was vacated by SCOTUS, here it is:
www.2ampatriot.com
No, it's not the current governing ruling, the listing has not been updated, but the entire 263 pages is at the link, free.
Antonyuk v. James 2d Cir RULING 12082023 — 2AM Patriot
Your FREE PDF download of the Second Circuit decision issued 12.08.2023 in the cases of Antonyuk/Spencer/Christian/Hardaway v. James. Note that this is a 263-page decision. This is the current, governing ruling.
www.2ampatriot.com
No, it's not the current governing ruling, the listing has not been updated, but the entire 263 pages is at the link, free.
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
263 pages to define 1 fucking paragraph with the ending of shall not infringe
Hawk Tuah ... blow me
Hawk Tuah ... blow me
GlockModel29
.40 S&W
Anyone have a prediction on what the 2nd Circuits new ruling will be?
Depick
.308 Win
I have zero faith they will do what’s right.
They will stretch out a decision as long as possible,- maybe another 1 to 2 years in hopes that SCOTUS will flip. And whatever they publish will be complete and total horseshit using the most convoluted basis imaginable.
The 2nd Circuit and New Yorkistan are completely fucked.
GlockModel29
.40 S&W
That'll be 1-2 years of us enjoying our rights thanx to judge suddaby striking down the majority of the CCIA...(Effective 8-4-24)
GlockModel29
.40 S&W
JD Vance announced as Trump V.P....
That_FNG
.308 Win
And what does that have to do with this court case?
MikeyCNY
6.5 Creedmoor
JD Vance doesn't seem to be a fan of ATF, but think it was posted in wrong thread.
On topic: Lead Attorney in the Antonyuk case (Stephen Stamboulieh, aka Nolo at AR15.com) sent this to Judge Suddaby on Friday:
I had dinner with Nolo a few years ago when he was in Syracuse at the beginning of this case, nice guy (obviously I wasn't the only one, group of 10-12 of us). Hope to see him again. When he did research into NY's gun laws he couldn't believe it.
From: Waiting for Justice! Antonyuk/GOA/Bruen - Page 57 - AR15.COM