Anyone else worried about the 2020 POTUS election?

[holdover]

Have you ever lived in an area with a very high population of immigrants? Particularly Latin ones? I ask because I worked landscaping for 12 years in Atlanta and my company would recruit illegals every morning for pennies compared to what American workers wanted. They were the hardest working, most honest guys I've ever met. They were more American than any of my American friends. They were pro-gun, pro-liberty, and valued all the same things I did. I think you are buying into the "illegals are violent criminals" narrative the mainstream media pushes just a little too much. Maybe someone else who has spent a lot of time around illegals can chime in too.

My point is that it is ALREADY a national security nightmare because of the war on drugs and the fact that our government has literally created a market that coyotes are capitalizing on. End the war on drugs, open up the borders and watch this country prosper. It is the American way.

YES! I have lived in an area with a high population of immigrants .There are a lot of good hardworking Mexicans , and there are a lot of bad ones too. I know because I arrested them when I worked on the border. Opening up the borders is worst idea I have ever heard. For starters , it isnt just Mexicans coming through.Its Foreign agents from all over the world. Russians Chineese, middle eastern , Cartel members from central America . members of ISIS, People with every possible disease from third world countrys , Drug runners, Mexican military. You know what else they dont tell you on the news? firefights between Mexican military and Border patrol and cartels . they dont tell you that some of recon troops we train moonlight for the cartels They give real time information on agents positions in the field

And the fact that flooding an area with illegal immigrants (AKA Tonks) changes the voting demographics of that area . Exsample California, A hard core red state up until the 90's when the flooding really began to kick in Arizona and Texas are slowing turning blue because of the millions up millions of poor coming across the border .

who are they going to vote for? the people who want them out or the people who sympathize with them and give them rights? These foreigners are decideing the future of our country. which is socialism . People who promise them help.

My heart was broke to see these people comming here like that. I didnt like that one bit, I always had candy or Hostess cupcakes in my pack for the little ninos , and gallons of water in my truck . The cutest little kids I ever seen . But Uncle Sam put us there for a reason . to protect the borders of the US and the people who live here . We cant save the world , They were born on the wrong side of the tracks , its nobodys fault , just the way it is .

And open borders mean the destruction of US sovereignty.

 

[Chevusa]

So that makes it good? Great. Autos are banned so this plastic piece that can act as an automatic should be banned too. What else do you support the banning of? A plastic arm brace? Scope mounts? Scopes? Pistol grips?

You are comparing actual “Arms” to plastic accessories. The “Arms” are not even intended to be used with that gimmick attached. I’m not supporting banning of anything. I am telling you what is.

 

[Marine Cpl]

You are comparing actual “Arms” to plastic accessories. The “Arms” are not even intended to be used with that gimmick attached. I’m not supporting banning of anything. I am telling you what is.

What about plastic pistol grips? Front and rear? Are you okay with that? Accessories are parts of arms. Some accessories make an arm a different class of arms. A scope for example is an accessory. If you ban those because they are too dangerous to have like bump stocks, then you ban a whole class of long range firearms. Firearms without scopes aren’t long range firearms at all.

 

[Saltwater60]

I’m at the point where I just don’t care anymore. I don’t no don’t even watch the news anymore I can’t. It makes me sick and none of it is true anymore.
The left is fucking nuts and the republicans are lazy asses who do nothing. The Supreme Court is well not very supreme and the conservative majority seems to side with liberals 95% of the time so why does it even matter? The liberals win in the courts and politics.
I think we will have to see when Biden opens his mouth. Honestly Weber heard nothing from him so how can anyone vote for him at this point?

 

[Chevusa]

What about plastic pistol grips? Front and rear? Are you okay with that? Accessories are parts of arms. Some accessories make an arm a different class of arms. A scope for example is an accessory. If you ban those because they are too dangerous to have like bump stocks, then you ban a whole class of long range firearms. Firearms without scopes aren’t long range firearms at all.

“A DVD player is a car”. The world is imperfect. When you become King it can be all your way. Until then we need to play the game and keep what is most important. Making up new things to ban as a game of imagination serves no purpose.

 

[Marine Cpl]

“A DVD player is a car”. The world is imperfect. When you become King it can be all your way. Until then we need to play the game and keep what is most important. Making up new things to ban as a game of imagination serves no purpose.

A DVD player doesn’t create a class of car like a bump stock creates a class of suppression weapons or a scope creates a class long range weapons. Without either of those two accessories, you do not have those classes of weapons. Sorry. Not the same.

 

[Chevusa]

A DVD player doesn’t create a class of car like a bump stock creates a class of suppression weapons or a scope creates a class long range weapons. Without either of those two accessories, you do not have those classes of weapons. Sorry. Not the same.

It is an add on accessory. Same as a plastic toy made for entertainment purposes that you put on a rifle for range shenanigans. Banning it in no way infringes on the right to bear “Arms”. The arm remains and functions as originally designed by the manufacturer.

 

[Darth]

If Trump banned DVD players because they aren't "arms", I'd be equally as upset and wouldn't cover it up with "well yeah, but he didn't ban TVs..."

Fuck me right?

 

[Marine Cpl]

It is an add on accessory. Same as a plastic toy made for entertainment purposes that you put on a rifle for range shenanigans. Banning it in no way infringes on the right to bear “Arms”. The arm remains and functions as originally designed by the manufacturer.

Well at least you are consistent in your close mindedness just like in every thread. I would have thought that someone of your intellect could see the difference between a DVD player and a scope or bump stock being an integral part to a certain class of arms. Apparently I was wrong.

It’s just a competition thing with you. You will never ever just say, “ You know. I never looked at it that way. I can see how banning a scope infringes on a whole class of arms.”

But no. Not Chevy. It’s a competition.

 

[Modean]

I haven't seen any of this. Then again, guns are such a hot topic right now, she could be trying to get votes from the left too. Hence her very indeterminate stance on firearms. Either way, I don't think she is anti-2A.

I think the critical difference in the nature of those crimes is that bank robbers have a victim. Illegal immigrants usually don't victimize anyone by coming here. In fact, quite the opposite. Most immigrants become victimized during the process of coming here and again once they are here. I agree it's unfair you should have to pay more for car insurance but if we gave them a path to legally own a car, that wouldn't be a problem. I've never met an immigrant who came here for "handouts and social programs." They come here because our country is the greatest and most prosperous and they want to work.

I agree 100%.

Ah, but they are victimizing someone. The American workers whose wages they depress because they will work for far less. You described it yourself.

 

[Stuckinny]

Trump did put an end to H-1B visas for now. For that reason alone, this helps prevent companies from sourcing cheap labor from overseas under the guise that they can't find American tech workers. They can find American tech workers, they just won't work for peanuts and be on-call all hours of the night at stupid rates of pay. That's why they allow foreign workers into the country, to push down the wages.

That's one of the reasons I'll be voting for him again.

And therein lies the issue. I started at peanuts, worked 10 hours a day and was in the oncall rotation. Now i am an 8 hour a day worker, not oncall, and earn my salary based on my knowledge, not my production. If i work more than 8 hours a day it is because i choose to. The freakin snowflakes these days are not willing to do the work to get the payoff, they want the payoff first. I hate working with offshore resources, but at least most of them work. I know data scientists making 70k out of college doing nothing. For the people who think that is not a good starting wage so it is not worth the work to earn the job, then F them. For those that cannot play the long game, F them. Let them work at starbucks and earn minimum wage with their BS degree. Let them live in mommies basement until they are 40 and become dependent on handouts. The ones putting in the work earned what they got.

 

[libertysnake]

And therein lies the issue. I started at peanuts, worked 10 hours a day and was in the oncall rotation. Now i am an 8 hour a day worker, not oncall, and earn my salary based on my knowledge, not my production. If i work more than 8 hours a day it is because i choose to. The freakin snowflakes these days are not willing to do the work to get the payoff, they want the payoff first. I hate working with offshore resources, but at least most of them work. I know data scientists making 70k out of college doing nothing. For the people who think that is not a good starting wage so it is not worth the work to earn the job, then F them. For those that cannot play the long game, F them. Let them work at starbucks and earn minimum wage with their BS degree. Let them live in mommies basement until they are 40 and become dependent on handouts. The ones putting in the work earned what they got.

When you're dealing with someone who comes from another country, it's a whole new ball game. A company can hold over that person's head something that you can never hold over an American worker, in order to suppress the real cost of labor -- permanent residency. Someone who is already a US citizen finds this of no addition benefit.

An H-1B worker, on the other hand, you can ask them to work for significantly less because they're locked into working for a company for multiple years under a sponsorship. They leave the company, and their sponsorship is dropped. So they'll work at a company regardless to get their residency, forced to stay there. Their reasons for staying are beyond monetary.

Don't give me horse shit that I don't know how to do my job or some crap just because I'm critical of a system that exploits foreign and domestic workers, under the "guise" of not being able to find people. That's not the point of the H-1B system in the first place.

 

[Chevusa]

If Trump banned DVD players because they aren't "arms", I'd be equally as upset and wouldn't cover it up with "well yeah, but he didn't ban TVs..."

Fuck me right?

No correlation to the Constitution.

“If [literally anything] was banned then [literally anything else]!!”

 

[Chevusa]

Well at least you are consistent in your close mindedness just like in every thread. I would have thought that someone of your intellect could see the difference between a DVD player and a scope or bump stock being an integral part to a certain class of arms. Apparently I was wrong.

It’s just a competition thing with you. You will never ever just say, “ You know. I never looked at it that way. I can see how banning a scope infringes on a whole class of arms.”

But no. Not Chevy. It’s a competition.

Scopes have no relevance. You are playing games and not dealing with what exists in fact.

 

[Darth]

No correlation to the Constitution.

“If [literally anything] was banned then [literally anything else]!!”

I know it was a while ago, but do remember, you mentioned DVD players.

 

[Curmudgeon]

When there is a knee on your neck that is crushing your windpipe and preventing you from breathing, it is of no consequence if it is the left knee or the right knee.

Vote as hard as you want.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Scopes have no relevance. You are playing games and not dealing with what exists in fact.

What are you talking about. They banned bump stocks because they are dangerous. The citizenry cannot have access to weapons that can kill quickly. You don’t think that the same can happen for scopes? What if the Vegas shooter used a deadly sniper rifle and subsequent shooters do the same?

Boy you are being dense. Whether deliberately for trying to win an argument or for real.

 

[Chevusa]

I know it was a while ago, but do remember, you mentioned DVD players.

Exactly. As a way to make you see your nonsensical ways. Now you’re awake!!

 

[Chevusa]

What are you talking about. They banned bump stocks because they are dangerous. The citizenry cannot have access to weapons that can kill quickly. You don’t think that the same can happen for scopes? What if the Vegas shooter used a deadly sniper rifle and subsequent shooters do the same?

Boy you are being dense. Whether deliberately for trying to win an argument or for real.

Such rifle would not violate long standing laws. Your argument has no relevance. A bump stock toy was created to directly try to violate the accepted and enforced existing laws. If you want such toy to be allowed then reverse the pre existing law that banned a firearm from firing in that manner long long ago. A plastic toy is not where you want to take a stand. It is foolish.

 

[spat]

Hence I cannot in good conscience vote for trump.

I guess then if you can't have full auto you don't want any guns either ?

Sometimes you just have to take what you can get and don't hold out for "perfect".

If I was going to hold out for "perfect" I haven't ever seen a libertarian candidate qualify either.

Does that mean we should all do a write in for our own names on election day ? Since I'm the only candidate I will agree with 100% ?

No, there will only be 2 viable candidates this November. If you happen to be in one of the handful of states where your vote might actually count, choose one of them.

Anything else and you might as well stay home.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Such rifle would not violate long standing laws. Your argument has no relevance. A bump stock toy was created to directly try to violate the accepted and enforced existing laws. If you want such toy to be allowed then reverse the pre existing law that banned a firearm from firing in that manner long long ago. A plastic toy is not where you want to take a stand. It is foolish.

Listen to your ridiculous logic. Ban magazine locks then. I do not know why you continue.

 

[spat]

You are comparing actual “Arms” to plastic accessories. The “Arms” are not even intended to be used with that gimmick attached. I’m not supporting banning of anything. I am telling you what is.

There was a time when a lot of people called Glocks "plastic toys" too.

I am not willing to let the government decide what's legitimate "arms" and what's "toys".

If you allow them than, suddenly anything but that musket is going to be called something other than "arms".

 

[GOPerfect]

Glad to see another decent conversation was thrown off track again over a very non-related subject. Typical MO on this forum. Do not start a different thread to discuss the same argument over and over, no, take over a good discussion.

 

[spat]

When you're dealing with someone who comes from another country, it's a whole new ball game. A company can hold over that person's head something that you can never hold over an American worker, in order to suppress the real cost of labor -- permanent residency. Someone who is already a US citizen finds this of no addition benefit.

An H-1B worker, on the other hand, you can ask them to work for significantly less because they're locked into working for a company for multiple years under a sponsorship. They leave the company, and their sponsorship is dropped. So they'll work at a company regardless to get their residency, forced to stay there. Their reasons for staying are beyond monetary.

Don't give me horse shit that I don't know how to do my job or some crap just because I'm critical of a system that exploits foreign and domestic workers, under the "guise" of not being able to find people. That's not the point of the H-1B system in the first place.

To be fair, I think it is to our benefit as a country to bring in as many H1B applicants as possible.

They are going to be hard working intelligent people.

That is lot more than I can say for 50% of the current citizens.

I have no problem depleting foreign countries of their best and brightest to enrich our workforce.

I only wish we could deport the antifa snowflake citizens infesting our suburbs, to anywhere that's not the USA.

 

[masterswimmer]

Glad to see another decent conversation was thrown off track again over a very non-related subject. Typical MO on this forum. Do not start a different thread to discuss the same argument over and over, no, take over a good discussion.

Gerbils are rodents.

 

[Marine Cpl]

And when cornered, the haha emoji pops up. So predictable.

 

[Chevusa]

There was a time when a lot of people called Glocks "plastic toys" too.

I am not willing to let the government decide what's legitimate "arms" and what's "toys".

If you allow them than, suddenly anything but that musket is going to be called something other than "arms".

One is an actual "Arm". The other is a plastic toy that is taped, glued or screwed onto an "Arm". A plastic bump stock is not capable of firing rounds and was not designed, manufactured, or sold to be a firearm. The 2A has as much to do with bump stocks as the 1A has to do with nachos.

 

[FrankenCub]

One is a fundamental part that makes up the firearm. The other is an aftermarket accessory made as a range toy. You aren’t even close. Find me a firearm that ships from the factory with this plastic toy attachment installed and we can talk. Otherwise you are being disingenuous. Is a sling also a firearm, where you live? What about a gun case? Is a gun case a firearm?

By banning the stupid ass bump stocks they basically set up to ban any part of their so called "assault weapons". How much time do you think it would take manufacturers to retool to build AR lowers with a magazine as part of the lower, with a removable floor plate like bolt guns have? If Uncle Sam & Associates passed a bill to ban all removable magazines regardless of weapon type, technology will get past it. We will be relegated to load one round at a time once we expend what we previously loaded. Like it or not magazines aren't a necessary part of a firearm.
As dumb as I thought bump stocks are I think they should have been left alone.

 

[Chevusa]

By banning the stupid ass bump stocks they basically set up to ban any part of their so called "assault weapons". How much time do you think it would take manufacturers to retool to build AR lowers with a magazine as part of the lower, with a removable floor plate like bolt guns have? If Uncle Sam & Associates passed a bill to ban all removable magazines regardless of weapon type, technology will get past it. We will be relegated to load one round at a time once we expend what we previously loaded. Like it or not magazines aren't a necessary part of a firearm.
As dumb as I thought bump stocks are I think they should have been left alone.

Except none of that fantasy has happened or even been suggested. It exists only in your mind. A bump stock isn't any part of a factory weapon. It is an add on range toy. No serious person would use it as any part of a firearm setup which is designed for use as a defensive weapon, just as the 2A was created for. The founders did not create the 2A so people could try to be cool at the range. A bump stock serves no legitimate purpose as for why the 2A intended citizens to have "Arms". It was not a game. It was not a joke. It was not for recreation, just as it was not for hunting.

 

[libertysnake]

To be fair, I think it is to our benefit as a country to bring in as many H1B applicants as possible.

They are going to be hard working intelligent people.

That is lot more than I can say for 50% of the current citizens.

I have no problem depleting foreign countries of their best and brightest to enrich our workforce.

I only wish we could deport the antifa snowflake citizens infesting our suburbs, to anywhere that's not the USA.

It's not the best and brightest you're getting a lot of the time. It's the desperate in a lot of situations, who fake it till they make it -- if they even make it.

Not all the time, but a lot of the time.