E the massive
.308 Win
Bolt upgrades for shooting steel case. Anybody do it or have any opinions. Where can I get one? Which should I get?
AR bolt upgrade
- Thread starter E the massive
- Start date
Clipazine
.45 acp
I never heard of bolt upgrades for shooting certain types of ammo.
AR's can have extraction issues, but not always. Maybe a stronger extractor spring?
AR's can have extraction issues, but not always. Maybe a stronger extractor spring?
E the massive
.308 Win
AR, 5.56. Upgraded parts for the bolt. Think the kits includes a more robust extractor spring and gas rings. Steel case is supposed to be quire brutal on the extractor versus brass.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
E, If the bolt is up to spec to start with then no worries. If you see the extractor having issues get an extractor from
a good source and be done. The armalite site has mil spec extractors. Make sure you have the oring. nothing else is needed really.
If you have concerns about the actual bolt then get one from AR15Performance. They are beefed up and among the best as far as I can tell.
Also the Young manufacturing for cleaner chrome but those are more expensive. No need for the jp that is overpriced for nothing.
But I would not be too worried about the lugs or anything else. The steel is actually less pressure in many cases. Just make sure
you start with a clean dry chamber and bore and not soaking with oils. This with any ammo anyway.
a good source and be done. The armalite site has mil spec extractors. Make sure you have the oring. nothing else is needed really.
If you have concerns about the actual bolt then get one from AR15Performance. They are beefed up and among the best as far as I can tell.
Also the Young manufacturing for cleaner chrome but those are more expensive. No need for the jp that is overpriced for nothing.
But I would not be too worried about the lugs or anything else. The steel is actually less pressure in many cases. Just make sure
you start with a clean dry chamber and bore and not soaking with oils. This with any ammo anyway.
Yes but a quality bolt should be able to handle it. Unless you have a Chinese cheapo piece I wouldn't worry about it overmuch.
E the massive
.308 Win
Thanks. I heard steel case was hard on the extractor but nobody could/would provide any evidence. I should get a spare set anyways.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I think it is over time if you always use steel there might be a lower service life. The fmj bullets that come in the Russian/ eastern ammo are harder on the barrels because the metal jackets are thicker and harder (less copper = cheaper to manufacture) but again this is over time if you only use that ammo.
One might pay for a budget barrel to shoot these with the first 1000 rounds if this is for general practice and plinking. So who cares right? Same thing as an extractor. Again I get my extractors for armalite because they never failed me. Also when 7.62 extractors were out armalite always had them in stock.
I buy bulk and have a stock of all sort of spare parts for preventive maintenance purposes.
In some rifles I carry an extra bolt / bolt head inside the pistol grip or stock storage compartment.
anyway I will probably die before I can wear out all that stuff.
I defer to @meketrefe 's expertise but here are a few interesting articles to read on the subject. They seem to agree with meke overall where the key wear would be in the barrel and not the bolt and extractor.
Debunking the Myth: Steel is NOT harder than Brass *(On your operating parts) - The Firearm Blog
Test your Metal: Myths and Misconceptions about Bullet Hardness - Guns.com
THE FACTS ABOUT STEEL CASED CARTRIDGES
Debunking the Myth: Steel is NOT harder than Brass *(On your operating parts) - The Firearm Blog
Test your Metal: Myths and Misconceptions about Bullet Hardness - Guns.com
THE FACTS ABOUT STEEL CASED CARTRIDGES
E the massive
.308 Win
Wish I would have brought this up a month ago. Booth at the Syracuse gun show had bulk steel case at .24$ a round.
What caliber? .223?
E the massive
.308 Win
.223 Tulammo. It's not a copper clad bullet, some silver looking clad.
MikeyCNY
6.5 Creedmoor
Can't speak from experience, but in my research into 'best parts' I came across the Sharps Relia-Bolt - Relia-Bolt
Using a stronger steel it claims to be better than 'mil-spec', however I've found several reports of the lugs breaking. I haven't shot nearly enough to try different bolts yet.
Using a stronger steel it claims to be better than 'mil-spec', however I've found several reports of the lugs breaking. I haven't shot nearly enough to try different bolts yet.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
ARP makes a beefed up design in 9310 Vac-ARC alloy.
I have submitted them to all sort of atrocities with use and my wildcats too and I have yet to find one that breaks.
So they work as advertised. By design it is a superior to mil spec and even 'enhanced' bolts brands.
I have submitted them to all sort of atrocities with use and my wildcats too and I have yet to find one that breaks.
So they work as advertised. By design it is a superior to mil spec and even 'enhanced' bolts brands.
Cleck
.308 Win
Might also want to think about upgrading your charging handle too. I had a bad experience with a commercial/consumer or whatever grade handle a year or so ago while shooting with friends. We were shooting steel case because it was cheap, but it sucked something awful. The expansion of the case caused it to get stuck in our barrels multiple times and we bent my handle trying to get it out. My buddy had the same issues, but he had a nice BCM handle that handled (no pun intended) the abuse needed to get it out and pull the spent case out.
We eventually ended up dumping all of the ammo because we were just having too many problems.
We eventually ended up dumping all of the ammo because we were just having too many problems.
MikeyCNY
6.5 Creedmoor
Good choice, I was looking at the AXTS 'Raptor' charging handles but they're so pricey at 80-$90... though recently on sale at Primary Arms for $68 (I still resisted); I did pick up a Bravo Company handle like you, I quite like it.
Do you recall what brand of ammo it was? I've resisted steel cased ammo for the reasons you listed.
Cleck
.308 Win
It was Tula ammo, it just didn't work for us. I wouldn't recommend it in an AR.
Ended up buying the same charging handle for our rifle to replace the bent one. Will buy one for my build as well.
Ended up buying the same charging handle for our rifle to replace the bent one. Will buy one for my build as well.
carpediem
.338 Win Mag
A good video.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I shot thousands of rounds of Tula and other garbage ammo from an AR15 w/o problems. They work fine with the ocasional dud.
This doesn't mean I like it. I don't like it a bit but it also doesn't mean it doesn't work.
Also do not assume that if certain ammo doesn't work in your gun all ammo from the same brand or type will not work in your rifle.
Also do not assume is a problem with the ammo and understand the chamber, gas system and other details of your firearm.
measure/inspect a few rounds of ammo and see if there is an obvious reason why it should not work. QC issue with that batch.
In general Russian ammo:
- Is filthy. Much dirtier powder than brass and or NATO type ammo.
- Bullets have harder jackets. (nothing to do with cycling by to consider)
- When packaged it will tarnish or corrode in humid environments if not used.
- An AR piston system is a good way to increase extraction reliability and spit out the filth of cheap ammo.
This doesn't mean I like it. I don't like it a bit but it also doesn't mean it doesn't work.
Also do not assume that if certain ammo doesn't work in your gun all ammo from the same brand or type will not work in your rifle.
Also do not assume is a problem with the ammo and understand the chamber, gas system and other details of your firearm.
measure/inspect a few rounds of ammo and see if there is an obvious reason why it should not work. QC issue with that batch.
In general Russian ammo:
- Is filthy. Much dirtier powder than brass and or NATO type ammo.
- Bullets have harder jackets. (nothing to do with cycling by to consider)
- When packaged it will tarnish or corrode in humid environments if not used.
- An AR piston system is a good way to increase extraction reliability and spit out the filth of cheap ammo.
Shadow2
6.5 Creedmoor
Not hear say, personal experience. Wally World tulammo and a 5.56 Wilde chamber, 3 rounds out of a single box got stuck in the chamber and the extractor tore right through the head. I'd never use it again or recommend it to anyone. US Military uses brass for a reason.
Last edited:
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Wylde is a tighter chamber not really a 5.56. It is a 223 with the extra freebore. More accurate than the 5.56 and not limited to 223 max coal.
Was it the heavy lacquered one (sometimes green) or the grey or silver one?
The 223 and 5.56 were designed to be made of brass. Rounds designed to be mass produced in steel have a more pronounced body taper. 7.62x39, 5.45x39, 7.62x54R and 5.8×42mm are good examples. In fact the entire AR15 was designed and made around the 5.56 and not the other way around.
Was it the heavy lacquered one (sometimes green) or the grey or silver one?
The 223 and 5.56 were designed to be made of brass. Rounds designed to be mass produced in steel have a more pronounced body taper. 7.62x39, 5.45x39, 7.62x54R and 5.8×42mm are good examples. In fact the entire AR15 was designed and made around the 5.56 and not the other way around.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
btw...
here is a list of some of the reamers that might be used to cut a 223, wylde and other variant chambers.
Of course then there is the headspace that will depend on the actual job when chambering and
if the bolt you are using was the same that was used during the headspace. Normally not needed
but everything adds up.
his is just one list. There are a least another dozen popular reamers that might be used.
here is a list of some of the reamers that might be used to cut a 223, wylde and other variant chambers.
Of course then there is the headspace that will depend on the actual job when chambering and
if the bolt you are using was the same that was used during the headspace. Normally not needed
but everything adds up.
his is just one list. There are a least another dozen popular reamers that might be used.
Bushmaster
.308 Win
I have an opinion, I hope it's a trunk gun AR for kicks? If not? roll up a newspaper and swat yourself in head. I don't feed my dogs garbage, And I respect my predators and barrels with no garbage.
Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
They make more durable bolts to hold up to wolf steel case ammo? Guess I learned something new today. ;-) Personally though, I think it's better off paying the few extra cents per round for Winchester white box at Walmart and ending up with brass you can reload someday.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
A mil spec bolt will handle steel case ammo w/o any problems.
The issue is with so many people making parts there is no way to verify the bolt is properly made.
Even if the steel is the right one the heat treating process is critical.
Remember the massive recall from Midway on their stoner bolts? someone messed up during heat treatment.
Of course anything above mil spec is going to handle better. Whatever the bolt I would rely on a proven maker, even if paying a little bit more.
The issue is with so many people making parts there is no way to verify the bolt is properly made.
Even if the steel is the right one the heat treating process is critical.
Remember the massive recall from Midway on their stoner bolts? someone messed up during heat treatment.
Of course anything above mil spec is going to handle better. Whatever the bolt I would rely on a proven maker, even if paying a little bit more.
Those Raptor handles are indeed stupid pricey BUT are suuuuuper comfortable to use. Very easy on the off hand when blading the charging handle with the palm. The BCM gunfighter is cheaper and works but can occasionally pinch the hand. The ambi gunfighters are also about as much $$ as the raptor.