AR15 and the Stoner Internal Gas Piston system. NOT direct gas impingement.

[Podmonkey]

Its funny really, the tired and worn out M16s I was issued did little to dispel the myths of Stoner's ingenious operating system in my mind. Even when I got my very own Colt 6920 M4orgery, that ran like a scalded ape, I didn't think about it much.
But since returning to the platform after my move the PA I have come to understand what an awesome operating system Stoner's design really is. I have tons of thousands of rounds between my ARs and with hardly any issues.
I can't actually remember the last time I had a malf in one. I can honestly say I have had more stoppages in my Galil Ace! Seriously, though I think it is magazine related.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Beat you by an hour..

I was waiting forever for this video


How the AR10/15 are piston guns not DI

 

[Acer-m14]

seen the vid aleart while at work .. now i don't have to search for it lol..

 

[Upstate43]

I love the fellows over at Forgotten Weapons...really good content they put out.

As for the DI vs Internal piston issue on the AR-15 style of weapons...yes I acknowledge the technicality behind that, but for all practical purposes the AR-15 design suffers from all the same disadvantages, and conversely enjoys all the advantages, that are associated with a Direct Impingement system.

Recoil impulse is soft and smooth, relatively speaking, while dirty gasses are being forced back into your bolt/chamber area....the AR-15 may not technically be a true DI system, but it sure as hell has the characteristics of one.

 

[@thewheels]

To-may-to...

 

[Mosinitis]

The moving parts are in line with the bore line. No weighty parts moving above or under the bore-line, like in common piston designs.

 

[Edwardteach72]

I love the fellows over at Forgotten Weapons...really good content they put out.

As for the DI vs Internal piston issue on the AR-15 style of weapons...yes I acknowledge the technicality behind that, but for all practical purposes the AR-15 design suffers from all the same disadvantages, and conversely enjoys all the advantages, that are associated with a Direct Impingement system.

Recoil impulse is soft and smooth, relatively speaking, while dirty gasses are being forced back into your bolt/chamber area....the AR-15 may not technically be a true DI system, but it sure as hell has the characteristics of one.

May want to check out one of Ian's other videos, he goes into talking about how there is actually only one gun that used a true DI syste.

 

[Podmonkey]

May want to check out one of Ian's other videos, he goes into talking about how there is actually only one gun that used a true DI syste.

Incorrect. Both the Swedish AG-42 Ljungman and the French series of rifles starting with the MAS 49 were direct gas impingement.
I read something about the Chinese having a heavy machinegun using direct impingement as well.

 

[Podmonkey]

To-may-to...

That like saying tomato and an orange are the same because they are both round and somewhat similar in color.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Incorrect. Both the Swedish AG-42 Ljungman and the French series of rifles starting with the MAS 49 were direct gas impingement.
I read something about the Chinese having a heavy machinegun using direct impingement as well.

Didnt know about the swedish but as saying 1 gun I mean the French series since they just continued to update the same gun

 

[Podmonkey]

Type 77 heavy machine gun - Wikipedia

Its predecessor, the Type 77, was also direct impingement

 

[Edwardteach72]

Well I stand corrected. 4ish guns are di lol but ok still stand corrected

 

[Podmonkey]

Well I stand corrected. 4ish guns are di lol but ok still stand corrected

4 is significantly more than 1 yes?
You should know me well enough that I am a stickler for inaccurate information.

 

[Edwardteach72]

4 is significantly more than 1 yes?
You should know me well enough that I am a stickler for inaccurate information.

Like I said I stand corrected?

 

[Edwardteach72]

4 is significantly more than 1 yes?
You should know me well enough that I am a stickler for inaccurate information.

Buttttttt one could argue is it significant based on how many guns have been made as a whole...

***devils advocate***

 

[Podmonkey]

Buttttttt one could argue is it significant based on how many guns have been made as a whole...

***devils advocate***

You are talking in circles now.
You made a simple, honest mistake. No need to try and justify it. It doesn't matter, beyond getting the accurate info out.

 

[@thewheels]

That like saying tomato and an orange are the same because they are both round and somewhat similar in color.

The minute distinction noted in the video means the bcg is not directly impinged by the gas?
What am I missing?
I get the feeling there's some serious hair splitting going on.

 

[Edwardteach72]

You are talking in circles now.
You made a simple, honest mistake. No need to try and justify it. It doesn't matter, beyond getting the accurate info out.

Right and I instantly admitted wrong when shown evidence that my statement was wrong, like 3 times.

Sorry I made a joke on that post about the significance of 1 or 4 guns vs the how many commercially produced guns in that time frame

 

[Podmonkey]

The minute distinction noted in the video means the bcg is not directly impinged by the gas?
What am I missing?
I get the feeling there's some serious hair splitting going on.

You are glossing over a major difference in operation. In a true DI system the gas just pushes against the bolt carrier. It gets directed into a little cup and blasts off the carrier somewhat similar to a cup style grenade launcher.
In Stoner's system that gas is directed inside the BCG, pressurizing it and thus forcing the bolt and the BCG apart. Since the bolt is locked into the barrel trunion and can't move the carrier is forced backward, which in turns cams the bolt open and the bolt continues back with the carrier. In principle the Stoner system is similar to a short stroke gas piston, only the bolt and carrier serve as the piston and are located in the receiver as opposed to under the handguard. Very distinct systems however. More than a matter of minutiae.

 

[ProgSpear]

The brilliance of real weapons designers cannot be understated. I never realy understood exactly how utterly cool the AR series was until I saw this video. I always admired and appreciated them, but not exactly why.

Along with Stoner, Browning, Kalashnikov, Colt, Lewis, Maxim, and Garand round out the A-team in my book. In truth, the list is almost endless... Yeah, Ruger falls in that list too, for the 10/22 if nothing else.

 

[Dinkus the Stinkus]

I think Ian is a smart guy but his political stance is poor. He believes that civilian ownership of full auto is wrong, plus some other infringement iirc.

Haven't watched this one yet though.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

Seriously, though I think it is magazine related.

That has also been my experience. Tired or bad mag springs or crappy followers. The rest of the rifle would run flawlessly.

 

[Edwardteach72]

I think Ian is a smart guy but his political stance is poor. He believes that civilian ownership of full auto is wrong, plus some other infringement iirc.

Haven't watched this one yet though.

No he does not believe that one bit. He did a whole video on machine guns and stated that he would 100% be fine taking a complete bath on his collection of machine guns if that meant the repeal of the nfa.

The comment you are misquoting him on is him saying he is "ok with certain guns being to expensive for the common person to own because they are very rare and he doesnt want bubba to get his hands on them" (paraphrasing)

The notion that he supports the Hughes amendment or any part of the NFA was started by /k/ommandos because they were butt hurt that Ian wouldnt publicly state that what was going on in South Africa was genocide on his channel while filming over there, even though he has said from the beginning (and has been very good at doing so and committed to) that Forgotten Weapons was not a political platform one way or the other and that it was only focused on the firearms

 

[Podmonkey]

Ian goes out of his way to avoid political commentary as does his colleagues Karl. And I am totally fine with that.
However the notion that Ian is possessed of any fudd characteristics is ludicrous.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Ian goes out of his way to avoid political commentary as does his colleagues Karl. And I am totally fine with that.
However the notion that Ian is possessed of any fudd characteristics is ludicrous.

Its because in a video he mentioned how he is glad some machine guns are priced out of the average person's ability to own, but again he said that because of the historical value of rare guns vs bubba getting their hands on it and just doing whatever to them