Are Online Retailers Killing Local Gun Stores? Should We Care?

[Marine Cpl]

I understand both sides. But if brick and mortar stores want to survive, they have to be reasonable. Some don't want to do private transfers. Some charge an exorbitant fee for receiving ammo.

Be fair. 10 bucks is a fair price to receive a box of ammo at your front door and to put it in the back for you. It isn't labor-intensive. Some shops want to charge twenty-five bucks for that. The job of picking up the box and putting it in the back takes all of five minutes if that. How much is that per hour? Do the math. Do it at a reasonable price and you'll get people walking inside your store to get that ammo and maybe pick up something else or see something that someone else wanted.

 

[tc556guy]

I understand both sides. But if brick and mortar stores want to survive, they have to be reasonable. Some don't want to do private transfers. Some charge an exorbitant fee for receiving ammo.

Be fair. 10 bucks is a fair price to receive a box of ammo at your front door and to put it in the back for you. It isn't labor-intensive. Some shops want to charge twenty-five bucks for that. The job of picking up the box and putting it in the back takes all of five minutes if that. How much is that per hour? Do the math. Do it at a reasonable price and you'll get people walking inside your store to get that ammo and maybe pick up something else or see something that someone else wanted.

I think that they are intentionally pricing that service so high in order to encourage you to buy what they have on the shelf.
The state only allows $10 per private transfer; the fee was written into the unSAFE act and at the time the politicians were slapping themselves on the back, saying that dealers would love to make ten bucks.

They forgot that back in 2000 they wrote and passed a gun lock law that specified that a lock had to be provided with each transfer, and specified lock features to ensure that the lock met a certain quality threshold, because they saw how dealers in other states were meeting those state lock requirements with cheap plastic locks. The dealer price for locks that meet that NYS requirement is currently over five bucks. I don't charge anything for private transfers, but I ask the parties to bring their own lock so that I don't get stuck with that cost. A lot of dealers ( I believe ) think that ten bucks wont pay for the time involved, and that's why they wont do those transfers.

I don't charge for receiving ammo, but I ask that they come get their ammo in a timely manner because space is tight.

As I said in an earlier post, your belief that people coming in for ammo or even basic transfers, will buy other stuff, in general does not hold true. For some of my regulars yes, they'll buy ammo and other stuff, but its because I intentionally stock ammo and supplies that they can't get at the area big box stores. I tell customers up front that I'll never be able to match the Wal-Mart prices for the guns and ammo sold there, so don't even ask. But they can get other stuff from me with a reasonable turn-around time that they can't get at those big box places. But for the most part, the guys who are really pinching pennies, no, they don't buy anything extra fairly consistently.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Well I'm one of those guys that bought something just from coming into the shop. I went to buy a Ruger PCC. While there I saw a Ruger LCP2. I went home and researched it then came back to buy it some weeks later.

A shop owner may not have seen that but it happened.

Also if it was cheap for the customer to ship ammo there, more people would do it. If 20 people a day picked up ammo at 10 bucks a pop, that's 200 bucks you make compared to none of maybe 25 bucks if nobody uses your shop because you are too expensive.

I don't know. That's how I see it. By me there's a shop called Davis. They are expensive to all hell. They don't get my money. I drive a little further to Thruway since their prices are reasonable. I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks the same and boycotts Davis.

 

[STS556]

While the same principle but different products here.

I am not a member of any bicycle forums so this is where I have to complain. I have many bicycles, mostly classic Cannodales and Kleins. Recently I decided to upgrade to bigger disc brake rotors on one of my mountain bikes. I did some research online to see what the parts would cost. I needed two rotors and two taller brake caliper mounts. Most online stores were selling the rotors between $15.99 to $19.99 each and the taller mounts for $6.99 each. I called my local bike shop to see if they had them in stock. They did and wanted $39.99 for each rotor and $19.99 for each brake mount, the same exact parts that were selling for cheaper online. That's $119.96 for the bike shop and $53.95 including $7.99 shipping from the online shop. Of course I ordered online.

Needless to say, I will not support any local business that have a 100% mark up on products. I understand local businesses need to pay rent, but at what point is it price gouging knowing there is not many local businesses around selling certain products.

A few years ago I bought a Remington 700 for an XLR chassis build. This was before I knew of Bullet Guys shop. I was looking for the ADL model because all I needed was the barrel and action and sold the scope and stock on ebay. I visited a few local shops and they wanted $200 to $300 above Remington's MSRP. That's almost 75% of the cost of the whole rifle. I ended up buying from the evil Dick's.

I am all for supporting local businesses. I don't mind a 10% to 15% mark up at a local business for the convenience of taking something home that day. But price gouging I will not support.

 

[CaliberPlus]

OK, I almost don't dare write this as I am new here and a LGS owner. I admit, often, I don't know something, guns and ammo are one of the most complicated subjects out there. Most models and calibers have a story, from design, engineering to marketing. I don't know a crap ton of this stuff. I often refer the questions I cannot answer to someone who can or I have to research. I know how I have felt going into LGS, our effort here is to be friendly and helpful, not a snot nose. I HATE being treated like an asshat and yes, have encountered that. As to pricing, I do most of it and am trying to keep everything competitive. I cannot always as some things are sold online for less than what I can buy for. Really. Transfers for ammo?Not necessessary, get it shipped direct to yourself but, if you want me to order a ton of ammo for you will do it gladly. Transfer a gun, gladly. I love seeing people get a new gun. A fee, yes, paperwork and time. I have to account for all of it during an ATF audit. One of my first questiosn to customers is, what do you want to see stocked? We do stock bulk ammo in some calibers.

I guess what I am trying to say, please do not paint all of your LGS with the same brush. Just like I cannot paint all customers the same. Overall, gun owners are deceent people but, there are others....

 

[Podmonkey]

As far as ammo goes, I think it's an untenable situation for smaller shops. I remember @Eddie Gunks saying once that SG Ammo sells for less than what his wholesale price was.
Online retailers make money off volume on a thin profit margin. I am sure since they have such high sales volumes that the distributors offer lower prices to the online guys. I dunno if it would be feasible for a small shop to specialise in a particular brand in the hope of emulating the high volume model.
There are smaller ammo manufacturers out there, regional partnerships could be arranged no doubt. As always I am willing to pay a small premium for ammo in return for the convenience of local shopping but I am not willing to pay $1 a round for 5.56 or $.40 and more for blasting ammo. For as long as Gander Outdoors ran the Agulia ammo at low price I was cleaning their shelves of it.

 

[nortatoga]

 

[Mike1Juliet]

I see a lot of arguments for buying at the small town store and I remain firm on the issue.

Lots of these local gun stores are demanding near msrp for these guns and honestly these prices are just made up as far as I'm concerned. Likewise there are hundreds of online stores, many of which have actual gun stores themselves. How is it that the local gun stores who host these websites can sell me a mp9 shield 2.0 for 325 dollars online before shipping and transfer, which I'm not paying more than 20 for shipping and 25 for transfer mind you, when some local store near me wants 400+? Hell many of these local stores near me here in the upstate want these levels of prices and try to claim that "I don't think you know how narrow these magines are" clearly I don't because what is effectively a 100+ dollar markup on many of these guns can be so stupidly narrow. Another local gun store out of state can seem to ship these mp9 shield 2.0s all day long for 325 but you apparently bought it at what? 400 and now you want 450? Not my fault your prices suck.

Hell not even to touch on ammo, no field and stream, your 30cpr 45acp is not a good deal and neither is your 20cpr 9mm

 

[Marine Cpl]

I see a lot of arguments for buying at the small town store and I remain firm on the issue.

Lots of these local gun stores are demanding near msrp for these guns and honestly these prices are just made up as far as I'm concerned. Likewise there are hundreds of online stores, many of which have actual gun stores themselves. How is it that the local gun stores who host these websites can sell me a mp9 shield 2.0 for 325 dollars online before shipping and transfer, which I'm not paying more than 20 for shipping and 25 for transfer mind you, when some local store near me wants 400+? Hell many of these local stores near me here in the upstate want these levels of prices and try to claim that "I don't think you know how narrow these magines are" clearly I don't because what is effectively a 100+ dollar markup on many of these guns can be so stupidly narrow. Another local gun store out of state can seem to ship these mp9 shield 2.0s all day long for 325 but you apparently bought it at what? 400 and now you want 450? Not my fault your prices suck.

Hell not even to touch on ammo, no field and stream, your 30cpr 45acp is not a good deal and neither is your 20cpr 9mm

I may be ignorant on the matter but why don't they buy from the online store at $325 and sell for $400 rather than from a distributor at $400 and sell for $450?

 

[CaliberPlus]

I need to see about advertising here. I know how I have priced the guns and ammo. I try to beat Midway on ammo and the guns are no where near MSRP. I agree most MSRP listings are ridiculous. I will say there are some comapnies one has to get approval from to sell and some of that approval is agreement to not go below MSRP. So far I have only found that with one company and they sell optics. I believe there are others out there just like it.

I don't know how some places online sell guns at the prices they do. It would be great to buy a new gun from some of these online places and resell it but then it is considered a used gun and no one would want to pay a new price....

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

I honestly do a mix of both.
Online has its benefits:

Massive selection
Mostly reasonable prices
Ease of shopping

LGS have their benefits too:

Typically knowledgable staff
Product on hand
No wait for shipping

I went to pick up a rifle I won from at local LGS. Walked out with something else I really wanted that he had on the rack, lightly used. I was able to hold, inspect, test trigger, etc that I wouldn't have been able to do online. I had some questions as it was a custom build. Shop got in touch with the previous owner and I now know pretty much everything I can about it. Doubt that would be possible on line. I know this is not a new gun purchase so it's a unique situation. This was a good experience i dont think i could've has online.

I had another experience with a locally owned larger "pretty well known" LGS that pretty much helped me to avoid them and buy online, and I was willing to pay more to keep the business locals and they blew it.

Theres pros and cons to both. Online has forever changed almost all businesses and those businesses have to try to adapt to those changes to remain viable.

 

[Mike1Juliet]

I honestly do a mix of both.
Online has its benefits:

Massive selection
Mostly reasonable prices
Ease of shopping

LGS have their benefits too:

Typically knowledgable staff
Product on hand
No wait for shipping

I went to pick up a rifle I won from at local LGS. Walked out with something else I really wanted that he had on the rack, lightly used. I was able to hold, inspect, test trigger, etc that I wouldn't have been able to do online. I had some questions as it was a custom build. Shop got in touch with the previous owner and I now know pretty much everything I can about it. Doubt that would be possible on line. I know this is not a new gun purchase so it's a unique situation. This was a good experience i dont think i could've has online.

I had another experience with a locally owned larger "pretty well known" LGS that pretty much helped me to avoid them and buy online, and I was willing to pay more to keep the business locals and they blew it.

Theres pros and cons to both. Online has forever changed almost all businesses and those businesses have to try to adapt to those changes to remain viable.

Tbh when I'm saving 50 dollars by buying online, the advantage of "no needing to wait for shipping" is basically saying I'm paying 50 dollars for no shipping. Since I'm so prone to buying online that's like paying 50$ for next day delivery especially when I gotta go down to the clerks office regardless.

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

Tbh when I'm saving 50 dollars by buying online, the advantage of "no needing to wait for shipping" is basically saying I'm paying 50 dollars for no shipping. Since I'm so prone to buying online that's like paying 50$ for next day delivery especially when I gotta go down to the clerks office regardless.

Dont go to the clerks office for long guns.

 

[Podmonkey]

I thought this was interesting, this fellow has a good outlook. But then again he is a Wisconsinonian and thems is good people.

 

[BDinPutnam]

Bear in mind overhead costs for retail can vary wildly depending on location- consider the difference between rent in say midtown Manhattan and the middle of Buffalo.

 

[Justincase]

Priced my most recent purchase locally and online. $465 difference after factoring in tax, shipping and transfer fee. Needless to say, i bought that one online... And i only bought it because i was able to fondle it in a local store. Makes me feel a bit bad, but local guy couldn't drop his price at all (whatever) let alone match the online price.

 

[Bustedknees]

*** old thread alert ***
Just a heads up for those who still like local gun shops.
Sherrill Ny , rt 5 has new gun shop owned by Vernon National Shooting Preserve and also just saw the guy on rt 31 Lakeport Ny is back open.

 

[MilesTeg]

*** old thread alert ***
Just a heads up for those who still like local gun shops.
Sherrill Ny , rt 5 has new gun shop owned by Vernon National Shooting Preserve and also just saw the guy on rt 31 Lakeport Ny is back open.

I passed by that 2 days ago and almost went off the road. I couldn't believe my eyes.

 

[Bananabandit]

I passed by that 2 days ago and almost went off the road. I couldn't believe my eyes.

watch the road or get a ticket

 

[GOPerfect]

LGS's can stay in business only if they offer the same great prices I can get on line./

 

[Uzi]

LGS's can stay in business only if they offer the same great prices I can get on line./

Is that right? and with your express permission alone?

 

[GOPerfect]

Is that right? and with your express permission alone?

My permission is not needed. Stating a fact.

Many on this forum don't like facts though.

Brick and mortar stores are closing each and every day around the nation due to their non competitive pricing.

Again, just the facts.

 

[MilesTeg]

watch the road or get a ticket

I went to court this week...... man there were some winners there!

 

[Bananabandit]

My permission is not needed. Stating a fact.

Many on this forum don't like facts though.

Brick and mortar stores are closing each and every day around the nation due to their non competitive pricing.

Again, just the facts.

Sir, please keep the facts to yourself. This is an "my opinion is fact" forum.

 

[Bustedknees]

G

Priced my most recent purchase locally and online. $465 difference after factoring in tax, shipping and transfer fee. Needless to say, i bought that one online... And i only bought it because i was able to fondle it in a local store. Makes me feel a bit bad, but local guy couldn't drop his price at all (whatever) let alone match the online price.

Gotta ask, what the hell did you buy to get that kind of savings ?

 

[Bustedknees]

I went to court this week...... man there were some winners there!

Reminds me of the time my kid had to do summer school. After the first day he told what a bunch of scumbags were in there.. I told him to get used to it because he was now one of them till he got his shit together.

 

[Bananabandit]

Reminds me of the time my kid had to do summer school. After the first day he told what a bunch of scumbags were in there.. I told him to get used to it because he was now one of them till he got his shit together.

You dont choose the thug life, it chooses you.

 

[meketrefe]

Online retailers are killing ALL retailers so LGS are no different.
Online shoping growth rate is direcrly proportional to the avg. citizens ass growth rate.
We are so fvcking lazy.

 

[BDinPutnam]

G
Gotta ask, what the hell did you buy to get that kind of savings ?

A case of HiPoints.

 

[dsdmmat]

Not to worry, N.Y. keeps passing laws to keep brick and mortar gun stores in business.