Are Online Retailers Killing Local Gun Stores? Should We Care?

[tc556guy]

Not to worry, N.Y. keeps passing laws to keep brick and mortar gun stores in business.

Don't worry, they're doing their best to shut down as many tabletop dealers, ban home gunsmithing and force everyone to take a psych exam in order to buy a firearm.
If they had their way there wouldn't be any dealers or gun buying customers

 

[MothMan]

the guy on rt 31 Lakeport Ny is back open.

The guy near the pizza shop and the old GRANTS farm stand??

 

[maverick52]

Like all business the internet is putting a big dent in the brick and mortars stores. I’m lucky enough that I have a few good LGS in my area. I do some business with each of them. One of them sells ammo maybe a dollar or two more than target sports and I rather go through him. It all depends on the deal and what your buying. It’s still nice to go in a store and handle a gun. Sometimes I buy online and sometimes I buy in store. Depends.

 

[CaseHardened]

I have often said that a Gun Shop that does nothing but Transfers would be a money machine.

No inventory, Small shop.

At $30 a transfer people would flock to their doors.

Here in Mass shops charge $40 to $80

 

[Bustedknees]

The guy near the pizza shop and the old GRANTS farm stand??
It's a house with a garage on the south side of 31, id say between the rest stop and Lakeport rd.

 

[Justincase]

G
Gotta ask, what the hell did you buy to get that kind of savings ?

I think it was the Springfield EMP 4 I bought. Either that or the Sig 229 DAO Legion. I can't remember 100%. That's a good thing in my book, lol

 

[tc556guy]

I have often said that a Gun Shop that does nothing but Transfers would be a money machine.

No inventory, Small shop.

At $30 a transfer people would flock to their doors.

Here in Mass shops charge $40 to $80

Define " flock"
Lots of variables to success as an FFL. I guess that given that, you need to define what success means to you as an FFL. Is it a hobby. Is it something you rely on to put food on your table. And so on and so on.

The population you serve and how much competition you have from other FFLs large and small are a huge issue. The amount of regulation you have from your state in addition to the federal stuff is an issue. Thirty dollars a transfer may sound like" a money machine" to you, but even a hobbyist FFL is going to have ongoing operational expenses that can make a small FFL operation that transfers only one or two guns a day a breaking even proposition at best

I've been an FFL for 27 years now. When I started there were a dozen tabletops like me, in addition to the more traditional sporting goods departments in brick and mortar places. Relatively few dedicated gun stores, although a couple have come and gone in that time. Now it's pretty much down to me and the local Dicks sporting goods, in my county. I've got a good core group of customers. I've lost a ton of customers who've fled NYS in recent years, but thankfully I continue to gain new customers.

I don't stock guns but order them in and do transfers of guns ordered by my customers, obviously. I do stock a selection of ammo because SAFE prevents my people from ordering ammo into their homes.

All of that being said, while business is good, it will always be a hobby to me and not something I can rely on to put food on the table. It is a self-sustaining operation at this point, is the best way for me to describe it.

New York State isn't trying to make my life any easier these days, I can say that much. I've stayed ahead of the regulations that NY wants to pass to squash as many dealers as they can, but at some point the regulations may just add up to a point where I say forget this noise and close up for good.

We shall see what the future holds.

 

[Cooolone]

Let's be clear... Online shopping is killing "All" stores...

Malls are empty and being repurposed. BOSE announced they're closing all retail stores in the U.S., Canada & Europe, etc., etc.

It's a new shopping paradigm that isn't going to change. Smart phones, computers... Working from home, social media, online, online, online, constant connection.

Kids should become Chiropractor's because I think in 20 years neck and thumbs will be big... Hahahaha

Anyways... If the LGS is worth it's weight in salt, yes, we should care. There's one local to me I won't ever step foot in again, just garbage. There's another a bit further away, well known and I visit when I can. Otherwise, yeah, online shopping, local FFL (no shop) and or little trips out of state when needed.

 

[MikeyCNY]

I'm not sure when the policy change was made, but AxTactical in Yorkville recently changed their transfer policy - AX Tactical LLC | Firearm Transfers

In an effort to provide our customers with the best level of customer service and quality products, AX Tactical LLC has adjusted it’s firearm (FFL) transfer policy. AX Tactical LLC will no longer accept transfers for firearms that are available through our website or our vast manufacturer / distributor network.

AX Tactical will accept transfers for used firearms, antiques, collectables, and any other firearm that we are unable to obtain for the customer. This policy change is being implemented to improve customer service and provide added value to our customers. There are no transfer fees associated with firearms ordered via AX Tactical’s website or retail store. AX Tactical’s transfer fee is $35 per firearm for all approved FFL transfers.
Firearm transfers will not be accepted unless it has received our prior approval in advance. Please submit a transfer request form here and our transfer department will respond back to you via email when your request has been approved. Any firearms shipments received without prior approval will be refused or returned to the sender. Any shipping or return fees or charges are the responsibility of the sender. An approved transfer is any firearm that we don’t ordinarily sell, stock or special order. Examples include used guns, estate sales, inheritances, out-of-production/hard to get firearms, and firearms we simply cannot otherwise offer for sale.

I've straight purchased a pistol from them, and have had them do transfers in the past, but this is a bit of a deal breaker. If I find a smoking deal on a rare pistol, I have to wait for their prior approval, and hope it is still in stock? (although looking at the FAQs, you can still do it but it'll be $50 transfer fee, which was their fee before....)

My former favorite place, Sharpshooters in Pulaski, recently closed and the owners moved to Arizona. I don't blame them one bit, and sent them a lovely thank you e-mail and well wishes.

I'm not planning on getting anything new soon (HA), but I haven't yet used CNY Gun Works in Verona.. over at at15.com some people have recommended them.

 

[Bustedknees]

I haven't yet used CNY Gun Works in Verona

had beers with the owner last night. The band was too loud to talk guns but they've always done good by me..

 

[MikeyCNY]

had beers with the owner last night. The band was too loud to talk guns but they've always done good by me..

Good to hear! I just remembered I actually have visited them - once. When the Ruger 10/22 Takedown first came out, I visited every local FFL looking to snag one. He was the only one who said they were expecting some in but didn't know exactly when. I've not needed any gunsmithing (besides adding sights, which Sharpshooters had done before) so I haven't gone back yet. I'll check them out.

Any idea if they will pin >10 round mags on a new pistol? That's my main concern right now; Sharpshooters did it and I was so thankful.

 

[Bustedknees]

Any idea if they will pin >10 round mags on a new pistol? That's my main concern right now; Sharpshooters did it and I was so thankful.

I bet they would , but I'd ask in person , not over the phone. They built a NY legal AR for my brother inlaw and I"m fairly sure it came with a 30 rnd pinned mag to keep it authentic looking.

 

[holdover]

Retail stores and malls are going the way of the dinosaur. Service sector , food drink , are all ok , But retail is getting crushed across the board, unless they have a niche market. A few upscale clothing stores will be ok . but over all , its hurting.

 

[Darth]

I'm not sure when the policy change was made, but AxTactical in Yorkville recently changed their transfer policy - AX Tactical LLC | Firearm Transfers



I've straight purchased a pistol from them, and have had them do transfers in the past, but this is a bit of a deal breaker. If I find a smoking deal on a rare pistol, I have to wait for their prior approval, and hope it is still in stock? (although looking at the FAQs, you can still do it but it'll be $50 transfer fee, which was their fee before....)

My former favorite place, Sharpshooters in Pulaski, recently closed and the owners moved to Arizona. I don't blame them one bit, and sent them a lovely thank you e-mail and well wishes.

I'm not planning on getting anything new soon (HA), but I haven't yet used CNY Gun Works in Verona.. over at at15.com some people have recommended them.

I like stores first make thier policy clear like that.

Makes it harder for me to ever even accidently buy something from them.

Now instead of the transfer fee for a few minutes with, they get zero.

 

[beebee]

I dunno, I look at it differently.. Buy a gun local, store owner makes a buck on the sale.. Find it online say $150 cheaper, and he can't match the price?.. He STILL gets a nice taste of the sale, say $30 or $40 for 5 minutes paperwork with the FFL fees we are forced to pay..

The GOOD local gun shops with good help are doing fine.. I buy online, I buy local, and get what I want/need/desire.. The online guy makes a buck, the LGS gets a nice tase.. The world keeps turning.
Only thing I don't buy locally is ammo.. Costs double or triple locally, and even when the big box store have their truckload sales, the price's usually STILL suck.. Especially on less popular ammo[.32acp]... bob

 

[tc556guy]

I dunno, I look at it differently.. Buy a gun local, store owner makes a buck on the sale.. Find it online say $150 cheaper, and he can't match the price?.. He STILL gets a nice taste of the sale, say $30 or $40 for 5 minutes paperwork with the FFL fees we are forced to pay..

The GOOD local gun shops with good help are doing fine.. I buy online, I buy local, and get what I want/need/desire.. The online guy makes a buck, the LGS gets a nice tase.. The world keeps turning.
Only thing I don't buy locally is ammo.. Costs double or triple locally, and even when the big box store have their truckload sales, the price's usually STILL suck.. Especially on less popular ammo[.32acp]... bob

This oft-repeated mantra that a transfer is only five minutes of work for the FFL is really misleading and incorrect

 

[beebee]

This oft-repeated mantra that a transfer is only five minutes of work for the FFL is really misleading and incorrect

Fine. Its not 5 minutes.. its 10 to 15 minutes tops-I have been through a bunch of them ... Way too many the past few years matter of fact.

Sorry, but I WISH I could pocket $40 for that level of effort.. A few papers to fill out, and a phone call to ATF, and I was out the door with the receipt to show the sheriff... bob

 

[tc556guy]

Fine. Its not 5 minutes.. its 10 to 15 minutes tops-I have been through a bunch of them ... Way too many the past few years matter of fact.

Sorry, but I WISH I could pocket $40 for that level of effort.. A few papers to fill out, and a phone call to ATF, and I was out the door with the receipt to show the sheriff... bob

Once again, you're talking about the actual time spent doing the transfer itself, not what goes on before the transfer

Edit there are quite a few people who place online orders that get sent with minimal issues. You're not seeing the people who text or call me at any time between 6 am to midnight and then spend an hour or so asking questions about guns that they may or may not even buy.
Or they'll be standing in some brick and mortar store walking down the row of guns repeatedly calling me to ask what my cost for a particular gun would be. Or the time I spend coordinating with my FedEx or UPS guy to pick up a box because I won't be able to be home at the normal delivery time.
Or the people who schedule a transfer at a particular day and time and are very late, or who don't show or even call me to say that they can't make it. If we have a transfer time of 9 AM Sunday, that to me means that I expect you to be on my threshold at 9 AM. Not walking out your front door to begin the 40 minute drive to me. My time is worth something, even though I'm just sitting there waiting for someone who apparently can't be on time

And that's just a few examples of stuff that happens on a fairly regular basis

 

[beebee]

Once again, you're talking about the actual time spent doing the transfer itself, not what goes on before the transfer

Edit there are quite a few people who place online orders that get sent with minimal issues. You're not seeing the people who text or call me at any time between 6 am to midnight and then spend an hour or so asking questions about guns that they may or may not even buy.
Or they'll be standing in some brick and mortar store walking down the row of guns repeatedly calling me to ask what my cost for a particular gun would be. Or the time I spend coordinating with my FedEx or UPS guy to pick up a box because I won't be able to be home at the normal delivery time.
Or the people who schedule a transfer at a particular day and time and are very late, or who don't show or even call me to say that they can't make it. If we have a transfer time of 9 AM Sunday, that to me means that I expect you to be on my threshold at 9 AM. Not walking out your front door to begin the 40 minute drive to me. My time is worth something, even though I'm just sitting there waiting for someone who apparently can't be on time

And that's just a few examples of stuff that happens on a fairly regular basis

I understand where you are coming from.. I mean no disrespect..
I am talking about a scenario like this.. walk in to the shop, knowing what you want, buying it, and getting the papers signed, and the phone call made, and walking out with the receipt for the sheriff dept.. I realize there is more to it than that sometimes, but I was discussing strictly the actual paperwork and phone call once the buy is made.. Idiot customers can destroy anyone's timetable, I understand that... bob

 

[ExMember_4526]

Some of us here actually believe in/promote free market activity!

Frankly, it’s the LGS problem in terms of analyzing & keeping up with market trends!

It’s a business, not a charity! Learn to compete & do what you must in order to garner a greater market share!

If the market is too tuff for you, find another way of supporting yourself! It’s Capitalism, let the winner take the spoils!

I never understood this “support the mom & pop” attitude!

Maybe my Jew brain is too focused on the financial aspects of business, whether I’m functioning as a consumer or a seller?

Markets develop... the field of competition changes... the nature of how business is conducted will change over time! Good morning!

Maybe, if more LGS learned that they could compensate for their inability to compete with online vendors, by offering a greater degree of personal customer service, people might be inclined to walk into their stores? (And hire employees who actually understand the functionality of firearms, terminal ballistics, etc). Having staff who can display a certain level of expertise is a selling point!

Hustle, or get leveled!

 

[tc556guy]

Some of us here actually believe in/promote free market activity!

Frankly, it’s the LGS problem in terms of analyzing & keeping up with market trends!

It’s a business, not a charity! Learn to compete & do what you must in order to garner a greater market share!

If the market is too tuff for you, find another way of supporting yourself! It’s Capitalism, let the winner take the spoils!

I never understood this “support the mom & pop” attitude!

Maybe my Jew brain is too focused on the financial aspects of business, whether I’m functioning as a consumer or a seller?

Markets develop... the field of competition changes... the nature of how business is conducted will change over time! Good morning!

Maybe, if more LGS learned that they could compensate for their inability to compete with online vendors, by offering a greater degree of personal customer service, people might be inclined to walk into their stores? (And hire employees who actually understand the functionality of firearms, terminal ballistics, etc). Having staff who can display a certain level of expertise is a selling point!

Hustle, or get leveled!

People say stuff like that on gun forums a lot, but I think that in the end the determining factor for customers IS the price, and small stores simply cannot compete against the low overhead internet websites

 

[ExMember_4526]

People say stuff like that on gun forums a lot, but I think that in the end the determining factor for customers IS the price, and small stores simply cannot compete against the low overhead internet websites

Tuff, learn to operate within your given market in a way that’s sustainable over time, or realize that all businesses have a life expectancy, and do something else!

 

[togmaster]

I keep trying to give a local GS business but if it's anything not in the counter he takes my number and never calls back. He is telling me he doesn't want to do business so I keep buying on line and shipping to my regular kitchen table FFl. Whatever.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Pretty soon only kitchen table FFL’s will be available. The standard template of a gun shop consisting of one rack of hoppes cleaning supplies, another rack of holsters that are the quality of Uncle Mike’s, another rack of real tree hats, another rack of paper targets, handgun ammo in 20 rd boxes of FMJ with no Federal HST or Gold Dots to speak of doesn’t seem to be working.

 

[tc556guy]

Pretty soon only kitchen table FFL’s will be available. The standard template of a gun shop consisting of one rack of hoppes cleaning supplies, another rack of holsters that are the quality of Uncle Mike’s, another rack of real tree hats, another rack of paper targets, handgun ammo in 20 rd boxes of FMJ with no Federal HST or Gold Dots to speak of doesn’t seem to be working.

The legislation that Cuomo wants to pass will kill off kitchen table dealers, which is exactly what he wants
I can't speak for other FFLs. I stock the stuff my regulars ask for. If you guys aren't finding ammo, cleaning supplies etc that you want,you should be voicing your concern to your local dealers.

 

[Darth]

This oft-repeated mantra that a transfer is only five minutes of work for the FFL is really misleading and incorrect

Maybe it's so oft repeated because it's true?

My local kitchen counter FFL survives on transfers alone. $20 for rifle and $40 for pistol. It literally takes 5 minutes. He's got an ipad and enters the info, click, boop, done.

For $480/hour, I'd answer a few questions.

 

[Marine Cpl]

The legislation that Cuomo wants to pass will kill off kitchen table dealers, which is exactly what he wants
I can't speak for other FFLs. I stock the stuff my regulars ask for. If you guys aren't finding ammo, cleaning supplies etc that you want,you should be voicing your concern to your local dealers.

Then you run a good shop. Unfortunately, most aren’t that way. I once asked a shop if they had 124 gr HSTs. They brought out Hydrashocks and told me that it was the same thing. I also once asked them if they would transfer a Keltec KSG. They told me that it was illegal. I had to go to the next county over to get it done. The same thing happened with an SKS. Afterwards I stopped asking and never bought anything from them again even if it was 100 percent Fudd legal or a handgun.

 

[kev74]

Then you run a good shop. Unfortunately, most aren’t that way. I once asked a shop if they had 124 gr HSTs. They brought out Hydrashocks and told me that it was the same thing. I also once asked them if they would transfer a Keltec KSG. They told me that it was illegal. I had to go to the next county over to get it done. The same thing happened with an SKS. Afterwards I stopped asking and never bought anything from them again even if it was 100 percent Fudd legal or a handgun.

Fake news! I don't believe you were trying to buy hollow-points!!!


...kidding.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Fake news! I don't believe you were trying to buy hollow-points!!!


...kidding.

Years ago I was ignorant.

 

[GOPerfect]

People say stuff like that on gun forums a lot, but I think that in the end the determining factor for customers IS the price, and small stores simply cannot compete against the low overhead internet websites

The cost of a particular item is all that motivates me.

Once I figure out what item I want, I shop the price. Lowest overall cost is the only factor to me. I do not grade customer service or help after the sale. I think this is the main reason not many people buy guns at gun shows. Nearly always over priced.

If the local store or the individual cannot buy and sell at a price that is attractive, doors close. It is a shame that so many in the business cannot compete.